Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby dbr » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:17 am

Good hard-nosed kids like Cody Hodgson or David Perron.

Thank god we took Luc Bourdon over Anze Kopitar (is Slovenia even a country, LOL), that kid had enough guts to take anything head on.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Tciso » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:43 am

dbr wrote:Thank god we took Luc Bourdon over Anze Kopitar (is Slovenia even a country, LOL), that kid had enough guts to take anything head on.


Dbr, that is way off side, even in my books.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby dbr » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:49 am

I don't know what you're talking about. Please stay on topic.

edit: sorry if I offended any Slovenians.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Vader » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:21 am

Meds wrote: I very much doubt that all of the "late round picks" that RD and a few others like to brag about for Boston were selected by their GM on a gut feeling which made him throw out the scouting reports and pass over multiple players that the scouts were recommending he select.


Brad Marchand is an example of a guy the Bruins identified as having a legitmate shot at playing so their GM acquired a 3rd round pick to draft him:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=80463

2006-Jun-24 Draft pick rights traded from New York Islanders to Boston Bruins for round 4 pick in the 2006 draft (James DeLory) and round 5 pick in the 2006 draft (Shane Sims)


Drafting in later rounds isn't all blind luck
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby tantalum » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:45 am

I know it's pointless to track trades for years and years but it is interesting that 4 current Bruins forwards can be traced to the Neely trade. Of note no current canuck can be traced back to the trade. The line ends at Mike Ridley. However, the big St. louis deal for Courtnall, Momesso and Ronning can be traced back to that deal as Dan Quinn was acquired from Pittsburgh when Pederson was traded.

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Topper » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:54 am

Tciso wrote:
dbr wrote:Thank god we took Luc Bourdon over Anze Kopitar (is Slovenia even a country, LOL), that kid had enough guts to take anything head on.


Dbr, that is way off side, even in my books.

Yes, Luc was on the off side of the road.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:20 am

Meds wrote:But all of them are soft. I don't know that any of them would stand out as the stars they were against a team like Boston. The Swedish style of hockey is beginning to look more and more like one that is not going to translate into post-season success in the NHL.

Yet here we are still listening to prospect news that says the Canucks are focused on Swedish players.


This is nonsense to me, really.

The Bruins have 5 Europeans, including their leading playoff scorer (Krejci), top 2 D-men (Chara/Seidenberg) and their goalie (Rask). And the 5th one is Jagr.

The Blackhawks have dressed up to 8 Europeans in playoff games, including their top scorer (Hossa).

This season, the Canucks dressed 4 Europeans in the playoffs.

It's not about where a player comes from, it's the type of player he is. He can come from the Sudan for all I care, if the dude can play the type of hockey we need him to play in a given role, so be it.

Meds wrote:Get away from this Detroit Red Wing philosophy that seems to stock up on late round European and Scandinavian players. Throw it out. Keep the part that develops players in the minors and brings them up when they are ready, keep looking at the future and build with it in mind.


The only European Gillis has drafted with a 1st round pick is Jensen, who is a Danish player with a Canadian born father and he's honed his game in North America.

Of the 19 picks the Canucks have had between rounds 1-5 since Gillis took over, 6 have been European. High picks have mostly been used on North American players.

I don't see it as Gillis targeting Euros, his philosophy, whether you agree with it or not, has been to find players others may overlook, which in this case is an extra emphasis on NCAA players.

The European distinction is silly. It's about finding the right players. You can win with lots of Europeans on the team but you have to find the right balance of particular players to make any roster combination work.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:43 am

The question I would have is why so few WHL grads?

Finding diamonds in the rough is all well and good but the playpen where the real diamonds are is junior in places like northern BC Alta Sask and Man.

I guess Gillis would say that picking at 28,29 or (I wish) 30th forces one to be innovative but late first and second rounders can and have panned out too.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby herb » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:56 am

ukcanuck wrote:I guess Gillis would say that picking at 28,29 or (I wish) 30th forces one to be innovative but late first and second rounders can and have panned out too.


Which one of Gillis’ late first round picks has not panned out? Schroeder, Jensen and Gaunce are all on a trajectory to becoming NHL players.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Boston Canucker » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:03 am

coco_canuck wrote:
The European distinction is silly. It's about finding the right players. You can win with lots of Europeans on the team but you have to find the right balance of particular players to make any roster combination work.


Yes, too right. Fact is, Toews has been mediocre at best, as the captain of the Hawks (but he's Canadian, how can that be?!?), whereas it looks like Chara is well positioned to captain his team to their 2nd cup in 3 years (like the success some guy from Sweden named Lidstrom had not too long ago, with some guys named Zetterberg and Franzen playing not too poorly in the playoffs as I recall). And either Krecji or Rask look like the leading candidates for Conn Smythe. If Toews was European the critique would undoubtedly be linked to his heritage (1 goal all playoffs!), but he's Canadian...so, well, he doesn't then represent the group and gets a general pass. You can get great players/leaders from any part of the hockey playing world (and shitty players too), focusing on one country out of some stereotype is both lazy and stupid, and thus a very bad way to manage a team.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:26 am

Toews has 4 goals in his past 41 playoff games - that's not mediocre, that's downright brutal. He looks like he's trying hard though, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from every media outlet and fan. He's been horrible, plain and simple. 9 points in 20 playoff games this season? If the twins had that type of production they'd be ripped a new one, but Toews is Canadian so we can't do that right.......
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Boston Canucker » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:42 am

Diehard1 wrote:Toews has 4 goals in his past 41 playoff games - that's not mediocre, that's downright brutal. He looks like he's trying hard though, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from every media outlet and fan. He's been horrible, plain and simple. 9 points in 20 playoff games this season? If the twins had that type of production they'd be ripped a new one, but Toews is Canadian so we can't do that right.......


I totally agree, on all points. I was probably being too generous on "mediocre," yes.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:57 am

Boston Canucker wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:Toews has 4 goals in his past 41 playoff games - that's not mediocre, that's downright brutal. He looks like he's trying hard though, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from every media outlet and fan. He's been horrible, plain and simple. 9 points in 20 playoff games this season? If the twins had that type of production they'd be ripped a new one, but Toews is Canadian so we can't do that right.......


I totally agree, on all points. I was probably being too generous on "mediocre," yes.

Holy crap really? 4 goals in 41 games? What does that work out to in percentage of time on ice, he must be getting decent ice time...lol the Sedins must be like wtf?
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby KeyserSoze » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:17 am

Diehard1 wrote:Toews has 4 goals in his past 41 playoff games - that's not mediocre, that's downright brutal. He looks like he's trying hard though, so he gets the benefit of the doubt from every media outlet and fan. He's been horrible, plain and simple. 9 points in 20 playoff games this season? If the twins had that type of production they'd be ripped a new one, but Toews is Canadian so we can't do that right.......

Captaining your team to their first cup in 49 years and winning the Conn Smythe along the way generally buys you a bit of grace moving forward.

Unfortunately we really don't know if the twins would be ripped a new one or not for lacklustre playoff production after winning a cup and Conn Smythe :(
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Mondi » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:51 am

I always wonder if the players even care if they "getting ripped." By whom exactly?

Jason Botchford? Matt Sekeres? The "fans"? Ron McLean? Mark Spector?

Or the ever popular "people" that a certain Vancouver scribe always seems reference with reasoning via rhetoric.

The fact of the matter is, "people" in this market create hysteria and controversy where none exists. Exhibit A: were Toews the Sedins you know there would be hours on 1040 and pages in the Province dedicated to the scoring slumps. In Chicago, they just win games and keep on going...or do they?

Does anyone here listen to Chicago sports talk radio, or read the papers?

My sense is that sports "media", whether here or abroad, is out to sell copy, and panic sells. Wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that provincial local scribes, the fans and various "people" in the Chicago were all over Toews.

Maybe a better question is, does Toews care? And does he care enough for it to affect his game?
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