Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri May 24, 2013 11:45 pm

He said something like:

He likes the core

There will be changes

Every aspect of the organisation will be reviewd

Biggest changes may come in the form of younger players getting significant roles and being allowed to grow and develop in game situations

Cautioned media to not jump to conclusions about anything he a says as he obviously won't go into detail but not to expect big or major changes to the core as he thinks we still have the ore together the job done

In others he has covered all bases. There will be changes, maybe big changes, no one exempt from review, but the core is good so the changes will be in younger players, but big changes are coming. Triple speak.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 25, 2013 7:18 am

Hockey Widow wrote:He said something like:

He likes the core

There will be changes

Every aspect of the organisation will be reviewd

Biggest changes may come in the form of younger players getting significant roles and being allowed to grow and develop in game situations

Cautioned media to not jump to conclusions about anything he a says as he obviously won't go into detail but not to expect big or major changes to the core as he thinks we still have the ore together the job done

In others he has covered all bases. There will be changes, maybe big changes, no one exempt from review, but the core is good so the changes will be in younger players, but big changes are coming. Triple speak.


LOL, round, round, we go. Mike Lawyer Speak Gillis

I fully expect our line-up to look something like this next season

Hank, Dank, Kassian
Booth, Kesler, Burrows
Higgins, Schroeder, Hansen
Weise, (New Guy), Pinnizotto

Edler
Bieksa
Garrison
Hamhius
Tanev
Corrado

Schneider
Lack

The Major Changes, Gillis speaks of, the rookies getting fully duty - Schroeder, Corrado, Lack. If Schroeder is moved, insert Gaunce. No way Gaunce wastes time here playing limited minutes on the 4th line. Gillis just said he is desperately looking to find a Malhotra for the 4th line.

Sweeping Changes Dat. Bold Moves Dat. We will be the Calgary Flames for the next 5 years, slowly dipping each season, hovering above .500 hockey scraping into the line-up, constantly tinkering with the bottom 6, making bad tades sacrificing the future for journeyman veterens, and eventually, we will be where Calgary is now, once the Sedins are gone. Bold Moves Gillis, there you have it.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 25, 2013 7:20 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I don't think Gillis said that but hey may as well make shit up right .


Have you not been listening to Gillis lately? C'mon Blob, get out of the Arms and back with the program.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby BladesofSteel » Sat May 25, 2013 10:52 am

Gillis says he won't make major changes to the core. Moving the Sedins is a major change. Dealing one of the core players to bring in help in other areas, in my eyes, is not a major change to the core.

Management has already made one major move in firing the coaching staff. More significant moves are due to come. Dealing Luongo, bringing in depth/role players, and in all likelihood, dealing from a strength (top four defense) to address a glaring weakness.

It all starts with who they choose to run the bench.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby sagebrush » Sat May 25, 2013 11:10 am

Gillis likes to beat around the bush & be cautious with the media. The team's culture needs to change. The core should not be safe.

NTCs kick in July 01. Time is running out for Gillis to show us the change.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 25, 2013 3:31 pm

Since Gillis plans on icing the same tired group next season as this and last and the seasons before that it will be interesting to see the new coach trying to get these players to play the game differently than the way the have been playing the game their whole lives.

Gillis biggest downfall as a GM is he falls in love with his players and cannot see them for what they really are. That's the Players Agent in him.

IMO, he is buying himself another excuse, another season, by selling everyone the opinion that it was all the coaches fault why they failed the last two first round playoff appearances. If they fail next years playoffs the same way, he then blames the players and goes on a massive dismantling of the core buying himself another year or two through a rebuild, retooling so to speak. The guy is definitely looking out for number 1, himself. Job Security.

He is basically giving this group one more year like the blessing he gave AV last May as well. Brilliant, tactical move on his part. Prolonging his future as your Vancouver Canucks GM.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby rats19 » Sat May 25, 2013 3:35 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Since Gillis plans on icing the same tired group next season as this and last and the seasons before that it will be interesting to see the new coach trying to get these players to play the game differently than the way the have been playing the game their whole lives.

Gillis biggest downfall as a GM is he falls in love with his players and cannot see them for what they really are. That's the Players Agent in him.

IMO, he is buying himself another excuse, another season, by selling everyone the opinion that it was all the coaches fault why they failed the last two first round playoff appearances. If they fail next years playoffs the same way, he then blames the players and goes on a massive dismantling of the core buying himself another year or two through a rebuild, retooling so to speak. The guy is definitely looking out for number 1, himself. Job Security.

He is basically giving this group one more year like the blessing he gave AV last May as well. Brilliant, tactical move on his part. Prolonging his future as your Vancouver Canucks GM.

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 25, 2013 3:53 pm

rats19 wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Since Gillis plans on icing the same tired group next season as this and last and the seasons before that it will be interesting to see the new coach trying to get these players to play the game differently than the way the have been playing the game their whole lives.

Gillis biggest downfall as a GM is he falls in love with his players and cannot see them for what they really are. That's the Players Agent in him.

IMO, he is buying himself another excuse, another season, by selling everyone the opinion that it was all the coaches fault why they failed the last two first round playoff appearances. If they fail next years playoffs the same way, he then blames the players and goes on a massive dismantling of the core buying himself another year or two through a rebuild, retooling so to speak. The guy is definitely looking out for number 1, himself. Job Security.

He is basically giving this group one more year like the blessing he gave AV last May as well. Brilliant, tactical move on his part. Prolonging his future as your Vancouver Canucks GM.

If you can see through the facade... Won't Aquamoney?


Aqua is giving Gillis one more year, me thinks. If this team sucks in the Playoffs next season, Gillis will be gone.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Sat May 25, 2013 4:33 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Since Gillis plans on icing the same tired group next season as this and last and the seasons before that it will be interesting to see the new coach trying to get these players to play the game differently than the way the have been playing the game their whole lives.

Gillis biggest downfall as a GM is he falls in love with his players and cannot see them for what they really are. That's the Players Agent in him.


That was also a knock on Burke too.

But Burke wasn't a players agent..... :roll:

I'm not disagreeing, I'm not going to be happy if the core is untouched going into next season.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 25, 2013 4:36 pm

Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Since Gillis plans on icing the same tired group next season as this and last and the seasons before that it will be interesting to see the new coach trying to get these players to play the game differently than the way the have been playing the game their whole lives.

Gillis biggest downfall as a GM is he falls in love with his players and cannot see them for what they really are. That's the Players Agent in him.


That was also a knock on Burke too.

But Burke wasn't a players agent..... :roll:

I'm not disagreeing, I'm not going to be happy if the core is untouched going into next season.


I just don't like hearing the line Gillis is towing the last few days about keeping the core intact. This current group bores the shite out of me. Quite a predictable bunch, tired of the re-runs game in game out. New need new faces on the ice not just behind the bench.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Sat May 25, 2013 5:15 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Meds wrote:That was also a knock on Burke too.

But Burke wasn't a players agent..... :roll:

I'm not disagreeing, I'm not going to be happy if the core is untouched going into next season.


I just don't like hearing the line Gillis is towing the last few days about keeping the core intact. This current group bores the shite out of me. Quite a predictable bunch, tired of the re-runs game in game out. New need new faces on the ice not just behind the bench.


Agreed. I don't think they need to put a stick of dynamite in it quite yet, but tinkering should definitely include a core player or two. I really want Bieksa gone after his comments in the Province the other day. He, IMO, is obviously part of the problem if after these failed attempts he still thinks they can coach themselves and the players be accountable to each other in the room with no need for a coach that keeps them honest game in and game out.

If there's a guy on the team that might tell Gillis to fuck his hat if asked to waive a NTC, it's probably Bieksa.

Losing Casual Kev and Airhead Alex from the blueline would probably not hurt this team overly much if you replaced them with one top 4 guy and a top 6 forward. It would also rattle some cages and remind the players that they aren't just answerable to each other, but also to the guy signing their cheques.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Reefer2 » Sun May 26, 2013 8:02 am

I am always of the mind that I don't care about the players but the team. No one should be an untouchable.

Why cant MG trade Kesler? I don't mean for a bag of pucks but sometimes a multi player trade with another who also has some underachievers is the best thing to do.

Yes I know about NTC but that is only there to make the player manage who they get traded to, any player not playing or being asked to move will eventually move.

Constantly hoping a player will change the following season is just stupid.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby SKYO » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:30 pm

lol sounds about right..

"-Brad Ziemer
16 NHL GMs got at least one vote in GM of the year voting. Mike Gillis, who won the award in 2011, was not one of them."

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby coco_canuck » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:36 am

The shine is certainly wearing off our favourite droopy eyed GM in the view of Canucks fans.

Some of it is justified.

We hammered Nonis for not finding suitable 3rd & 4th line centres, and when Manny became a pirate and Lapierre entrenched himself as borderline 4th line centre this past season all Gillis could do was add Derek Roy at the deadline.

Now, I like the Roy acquisition when it happened, and I don't blame Gillis for pulling the trigger. It was still a necessary and correct move in my opinion, but the bottom 6 centres has been an issue since 2011 and wasn't addressed until a rental was added at the deadline in 2013. That hole in the middle is on MG.

It's difficult to know what the reality of the Luongo situation is. Did the Canucks push him out the door, or did Luo get the whole mess started with a trade request?

Another important question is, did Gillis ever turn down a trade he would jump at now and if he did turn it down was it because Luo said no?

The answer to those questions are important when evaluating how Gillis has handled Luongo. From what I've seen and heard, Luo asked out but I have no real idea whether the rumor of Luo saying no to at least one deal is true or that if Gillis actually ever turned down a trade to an approved destination.

If it was the Canucks who pushed Luo out and then messed up potential trades, then Gillis wears some big goat horns here but if that's not true, it's a tough position for a GM to be in.

Either way, it's a shitty situation that Gillis has to salvage without saddling the Canucks with dead weight.

The criticism of drafting and player development is justified in the sense that many of the late round picks haven't panned out and we don't yet know what we have in Schroeder and Kassian.

But I would say the prospect cupboard isn't as poor as people would like to think. I wouldn't write off Kassian at all. He's still a young player and big forwards often develop slowly. Schroeder will have a NHL career but will it be as an important top 9 centre or is he Andrew Ebbett 2.0?

Does Gillis' player development record look as poor if Kassian evolves and Gaunce, Jensen, Corrado and a bottom 6 forward like Lain pan out over the next 12-18 months?

No, it would look pretty good all of a sudden.

This sort of reminds me of the mid 2000s when Canucks fans were up in arms over the "thin prospect pool" when all of a sudden Kesler, Burrows, Edler, Bieksa, Raymond, Hansen and Schneider began making strides as young prospects and players.

Fact is, we know little about how good the likes of Lack, Price, McNally, Grenier, Mallett, Labate, Tommernes, Blomstrand and the new goalie Ericsson will be.

It's still difficult to properly judge Gillis' drafting and player development, but my biggest criticism would be the approach Gillis has taken to some drafts, such as last year when he made an effort to target College players. I don't like limited scopes when planning for a draft and the Canucks inability to find good player out of the WHL in later rounds is a real head scratcher. The idea of only targeting BC players is just as dumb as only targeting College skaters but the Canucks have had a world of trouble identifying good talent out of their own backyard.

I'm not going to post the positives of Gillis' regime but suffice it to say I don't think these critiques I've posted above are enough to have fired Gillis after this past season but he's definitely created some challenges for himself that he will have to overcome in order to keep this job more than another year or two, whether it's completely justified or not.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:33 am

coco_canuck wrote:The criticism of drafting and player development is justified in the sense that many of the late round picks haven't panned out and we don't yet know what we have in Schroeder and Kassian.


I know this is going to sound all Don Cherry, but if Gillis has one problem with his drafting, it has been a failure to shake the scouting tree a little and really start targeting some Canadian kids. I am very happy with the way the Sedins developed, I was/am a fan of Naslund, I think players like Zetterberg, Sundin, Lidstrom, and Alfredsson, are great players. But all of them are soft. I don't know that any of them would stand out as the stars they were against a team like Boston. The Swedish style of hockey is beginning to look more and more like one that is not going to translate into post-season success in the NHL.

Yet here we are still listening to prospect news that says the Canucks are focused on Swedish players.

Getting a guy like Kassian was a step in the right direction. He needs to make a few more moves like that. Tanev and Corrado are a pair of Canadian born defensive prospects, but neither of them strikes me as the type that are going to be big, mean, physically punishing, defensemen.

Get away from this Detroit Red Wing philosophy that seems to stock up on late round European and Scandinavian players. Throw it out. Keep the part that develops players in the minors and brings them up when they are ready, keep looking at the future and build with it in mind.

Other than that I don't have much of an opinion on Gillis' drafting record, it's too soon to tell, and we all know that late round picks are a crap shoot and that GM's around the league rely heavily on the reports of their scouts. I very much doubt that all of the "late round picks" that RD and a few others like to brag about for Boston were selected by their GM on a gut feeling which made him throw out the scouting reports and pass over multiple players that the scouts were recommending he select.
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