Roster Questions

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If an overhaul of this team is needed, which of the following players who should MG shop around...

Hank and Danny
12
7%
Edler
44
25%
Booth
45
26%
Higgins
8
5%
Bieksa
15
9%
Ballard
45
26%
Hamhuis
2
1%
None of the above
2
1%
 
Total votes : 173

Re: Roster Questions

Postby The_Pauser » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:34 pm

If the Sedins are still with this team after their contracts expire, our organization will be set-back by the length of their new contracts. We will not make it past the 2nd round with the Sedins as main focal points on this team again.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:07 pm

The_Pauser wrote:If the Sedins are still with this team after their contracts expire, our organization will be set-back by the length of their new contracts. We will not make it past the 2nd round with the Sedins as main focal points on this team again.


I seriously doubt they're looking to hit a long term home run after their current deal expires; but I agree about them not being the focal points moving forward.

Personally I think the only way they ever hoist the cup over their heads as Canucks is if they're on the second line and Gillis has managed to somehow put another true first line together using other assets.

Using Edler to move up in the draft is where I'd start looking.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Per » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:25 pm

Eddy Punch Clock wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:If the Sedins are still with this team after their contracts expire, our organization will be set-back by the length of their new contracts. We will not make it past the 2nd round with the Sedins as main focal points on this team again.


I seriously doubt they're looking to hit a long term home run after their current deal expires; but I agree about them not being the focal points moving forward.

Personally I think the only way they ever hoist the cup over their heads as Canucks is if they're on the second line and Gillis has managed to somehow put another true first line together using other assets.

Using Edler to move up in the draft is where I'd start looking.

Agreed. The twins have already built themselves some pretty good nest eggs, and when they negotiate their next contract I expect winning the cup will be their main concern. Thus I'd expect them to be willing to take a pretty big "hometown discount" if the money left on the table is used to add the missing pieces for a cup run. And it's pretty obvious by now that the Canucks can't go all the way as a one line team. We need another serious scoring threat so the opponents have to spread their attention instead of just focusing on the twins.

If trading Edler is what can get us that threat, then do it. But he's too valuable to just throw away.
It needs to be a very good offer. But if we get that, then go for it.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:50 am

Per wrote:Agreed. The twins have already built themselves some pretty good nest eggs, and when they negotiate their next contract I expect winning the cup will be their main concern. Thus I'd expect them to be willing to take a pretty big "hometown discount" if the money left on the table is used to add the missing pieces for a cup run.


Or they might be willing to take a low contract and play as 2nd liners on some of the consistent regular cup contenders like Pittsburgh, Chicago or Detroit. :(
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Zedlee » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:19 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Per wrote:Agreed. The twins have already built themselves some pretty good nest eggs, and when they negotiate their next contract I expect winning the cup will be their main concern. Thus I'd expect them to be willing to take a pretty big "hometown discount" if the money left on the table is used to add the missing pieces for a cup run.


Or they might be willing to take a low contract and play as 2nd liners on some of the consistent regular cup contenders like Pittsburgh, Chicago or Detroit. :(


Or the Sedins may decide to return to Sweden and try to win a SEL championship with Modo, while they are still in their primes. Going to be an interesting negotiations and decision by them.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Per » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:23 pm

Zedlee wrote:
Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
Per wrote:Agreed. The twins have already built themselves some pretty good nest eggs, and when they negotiate their next contract I expect winning the cup will be their main concern. Thus I'd expect them to be willing to take a pretty big "hometown discount" if the money left on the table is used to add the missing pieces for a cup run.


Or they might be willing to take a low contract and play as 2nd liners on some of the consistent regular cup contenders like Pittsburgh, Chicago or Detroit. :(


Or the Sedins may decide to return to Sweden and try to win a SEL championship with Modo, while they are still in their primes. Going to be an interesting negotiations and decision by them.


According to Swedish media:

Daniel Sedin and his brother Henrik Sedin came home to the World Championship after the Stanley Cup elimination and had tremendous success. The Three Crowns won gold after the Sedins scored a combined 15 points in four games, and yesterday the team was celebrated by more than 20 000 people at Kungsträdgården.

"The feeling I had today standing in front of the fans at Kungsträdgården is something that will stay with you your whole life. It's something I'll cherish all summer," says Daniel Sedin to Örnsköldsviks Allehanda.

Next fall it's back to the NHL again for the twins, who then play the final year of their contract with the Vancouver Canucks. They'll turn 33 this fall and have spent twelve seasons in the NHL. When asked if they'll return to Modo after next season Daniel replies:

"We'll see. We've figured we might give the NHL another year or two. I've always enjoyed playing on he smaller rink, but now the big ice felt pretty good as well."

"We'll finish the contract in Vancouver and then give it another year or two. We're hoping next season will be better. This was a tough season with injuries and we never really got into it," adds Henrik Sedin.


They've also stated that they plan to just extend the contract one year at a time. No more long term contracts.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby herb » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:34 pm

Seeing compatriots Aldredsson and Lidstrom play into their 40's, I have a tough time seeing Dank and Hank giving up on the NHL dream if they can still play at a high enough level. Both have been incredibly durable, and it's not like injuries have really weighed down their careers. I've always pictured them, and the Canucks, as being on a trajectory where the Sedins sign shorter duration contracts as they age and their importance on the team diminishes.

They could always pull a Naslund and lose the desire to compete, but Markus was always a bit of an oddball.

No offense, but putting up 15 points in 4 games, it seems like the level in Europe might be just a tad below where the Sedins are talent wise. It would be really disappointing to see them pack up and play in Europe.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Rumsfeld » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:08 pm

herb wrote:Seeing compatriots Aldredsson and Lidstrom play into their 40's, I have a tough time seeing Dank and Hank giving up on the NHL dream if they can still play at a high enough level.


Keep in mind that those guys can actually skate. As a result they take a lot less punishment than the twins.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby herb » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:30 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:Keep in mind that those guys can actually skate. As a result they take a lot less punishment than the twins.


I don't think the twins take a whole lot of punishment...if they do, they certainly don't show it through injuries. Most observers complain that they are not physically engaged enough.

Skating has never been a strong suit of theirs, yet they have persevered.

If they can continue to compete at a NHL level, I would expect them to continue to do so like most other elite professional athletes. I think we'd certainly be fortunate if they could continue to play at a high level for another decade like Alfredsson, Lidstrom, Selanne and others, but several more years certainly isn't out of the question.

Some guys fall off a cliff like Naslund. Most fade away like Bertuzzi and few carry on, defying age, like Selanne. My fingers are crossed that they are more on the Selanne side of things, but being a Canucks fan means I'm pessimistic too.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jun 03, 2013 3:33 pm

They will be back. Like most Swedes they will find it hard to change teams at this point in their careers. As long as the Canucks want them back, are willing to pay fair market value on short term deals and promise the twins a significant role in the offence, I see them both re-signing 1-2 year deals at cap friendly terms. Or course a team could come along and offer them something crazy for one season and they may jump but as long as they see the Canucks as contenders they will be back.

Once they are gone Mg had better hope he has something up his sleeve to replace them. Other than cap space.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:02 am

Hockey Widow wrote:Once they are gone Mg had better hope he has something up his sleeve to replace them. Other than cap space.


Actually, once the sedins are done here, I'd completely blow up this team, rebuild and go with a youth movement. I'm willing to keep trying since we have the Sedins, Kes and some other guys. I don't expect our team to be a cup contender anymore though, if we can squeek into the playoffs and go a round or 2, it will be a good year. Unless somehow we are able to add a few guys like Crosby, Stamkos and Chara to our lineup, we're not go anywhere. I don't mind seeing the sedins play a couple more years, become our first canuck 1000 point scorers, then let them walk and blow the team up. :drink:
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby Rumsfeld » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:16 pm

OK so let's take a quick gander at our roster for next season. I've taken the liberty of removing Raymond, Lappy and Luongo because we know they won't be there when the season starts. What moves do you guys suggest we make from here? Obviously Ballard is a huge candidate to be traded or bought out due to his shitty play and shittier contract. Booth slightly less so but the same reasoning applies.

That leaves a backup goalie and a third line center for sure, and you'd think at least one major trade involving our top-6 wingers.

2013/14 Canucks

D.Sedin H.Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Kassian
Higgins _____ Hansen
Weise Lain Sestito -- Schroeder Pinnizotto Jensen

Bieksa Hamhuis
Edler Garrison
Tanev Ballard -- Alberts Corrado

Schneider
_______ -- Lack
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby The_Pauser » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:24 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:OK so let's take a quick gander at our roster for next season. I've taken the liberty of removing Raymond, Lappy and Luongo because we know they won't be there when the season starts. What moves do you guys suggest we make from here? Obviously Ballard is a huge candidate to be traded or bought out due to his shitty play and shittier contract. Booth slightly less so but the same reasoning applies.

That leaves a backup goalie and a third line center for sure, and you'd think at least one major trade involving our top-6 wingers.

2013/14 Canucks

D.Sedin H.Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Kassian
Higgins _____ Hansen
Weise Lain Sestito -- Schroeder Pinnizotto Jensen

Bieksa Hamhuis
Edler Garrison
Tanev Ballard -- Alberts Corrado

Schneider
_______ -- Lack


At Least better be right. That's essentially the same team that proved it couldn't get the job done this season and was thoroughly embarrassed once again in the playoffs. How many times do we need to be embarrassed before real changes actually happen? If Gillis attempts to ice this garbage again I certainly hope the fans in this city flip him the bird and refuse to pay the ridiculous ticket prices for the same garbage product.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby vic » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:05 am

The_Pauser wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:OK so let's take a quick gander at our roster for next season. I've taken the liberty of removing Raymond, Lappy and Luongo because we know they won't be there when the season starts. What moves do you guys suggest we make from here? Obviously Ballard is a huge candidate to be traded or bought out due to his shitty play and shittier contract. Booth slightly less so but the same reasoning applies.

That leaves a backup goalie and a third line center for sure, and you'd think at least one major trade involving our top-6 wingers.

2013/14 Canucks

D.Sedin H.Sedin Burrows
Booth Kesler Kassian
Higgins _____ Hansen
Weise Lain Sestito -- Schroeder Pinnizotto Jensen

Bieksa Hamhuis
Edler Garrison
Tanev Ballard -- Alberts Corrado

Schneider
_______ -- Lack


At Least better be right. That's essentially the same team that proved it couldn't get the job done this season and was thoroughly embarrassed once again in the playoffs. How many times do we need to be embarrassed before real changes actually happen? If Gillis attempts to ice this garbage again I certainly hope the fans in this city flip him the bird and refuse to pay the ridiculous ticket prices for the same garbage product.


You gotta be kidding me...

The 2008 Canucks had guys like
Pyatt, Bulis, Krajicek, Cowen, Green, Fitzpatrick, Smolinksi, Nathan Smith, Brandon Reid, and Santala all suit up for Playoff Games, Henrik and Daniel were nowhere near the players they are today and Kesler was still a youngster trying to get his feet wet (besides only playing 1 playoff game)

The 2010 playoffs had the following whipping boys on the roster for the playoffs
Demitra, Bernier, Wellwood, Baumgartner, SOB, Pettinger, Alberts (remember all his penalties in R1 that year?) and youngsters like Raymond, Grabner, and Hansen

BOTH of those team out-performed the Canucks roster of the past two years. The roster is so much better than it was back then, AV knew a lot of those guys from coaching the Moose and was able to get the best of out them. Once he got new (and better) players he managed a run to the SCF and then did nothing with the roster for the past two post season births.

Yes, the hockey was boring, but the systems worked and the team listened and learned. Somewhere the system broke or the players stopped listening - either way AV is to blame.
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Re: Roster Questions

Postby The_Pauser » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:10 am

vic wrote:You gotta be kidding me...

The 2008 Canucks had guys like
Pyatt, Bulis, Krajicek, Cowen, Green, Fitzpatrick, Smolinksi, Nathan Smith, Brandon Reid, and Santala all suit up for Playoff Games, Henrik and Daniel were nowhere near the players they are today and Kesler was still a youngster trying to get his feet wet (besides only playing 1 playoff game)

The 2010 playoffs had the following whipping boys on the roster for the playoffs
Demitra, Bernier, Wellwood, Baumgartner, SOB, Pettinger, Alberts (remember all his penalties in R1 that year?) and youngsters like Raymond, Grabner, and Hansen

BOTH of those team out-performed the Canucks roster of the past two years. The roster is so much better than it was back then, AV knew a lot of those guys from coaching the Moose and was able to get the best of out them. Once he got new (and better) players he managed a run to the SCF and then did nothing with the roster for the past two post season births.

Yes, the hockey was boring, but the systems worked and the team listened and learned. Somewhere the system broke or the players stopped listening - either way AV is to blame.


Absolving the players of blame and scapegoating the coach is a cheap cop-out. Not going to fly. Ultimately the players are responsible for their own performance and we just haven't been getting the results. You can be attached to your favourite players all you want, but when we look at the facts they aren't producing the way they should (or probably can). One way or another, what we have doesn't work. We need personnel changes that go beyond the backup goalie and an expensive defenseman who saw 0 playoff time. The Sedins were largely invisible in the playoffs. Kesler showed up for 1 game. Where was Burrows? How about Edler doing his best keystone cops impression?
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