Roster Questions

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

If an overhaul of this team is needed, which of the following players who should MG shop around...

Hank and Danny
12
7%
Edler
44
25%
Booth
45
26%
Higgins
8
5%
Bieksa
15
9%
Ballard
45
26%
Hamhuis
2
1%
None of the above
2
1%
 
Total votes: 173

User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3014
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: Roster Questions

Post by herb » Fri May 31, 2013 9:06 am

Ahh, the old Sedins and toughness conversation.

It's been clear for years that the Sedins are not muckers, which is why management needs to give them some help.

I think it's pretty damn clear now that they can't be counted on as the go to guys. They are very good players, but they are not generational talents. They need help.

Gillis needs to:
- Get a big, talented 30 goal winger to play with Kesler.
- Find a coach who is willing to split up the twins to give the lineup a different look.
- Dump Lapierre and move Burrows for some of the help we need.
- Find a big third line centre.

User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
Posts: 9667
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Roster Questions

Post by Topper » Fri May 31, 2013 9:21 am

I believe the Sedins are tough. The cycle game along the boards and the punishment it entails is ample proof of that. What is also clear is that they do not elevate their game come playoff time. Like it or not, they play at a consistent level, regular season or playoffs.

They do have difficulty making space for themselves through the neutral zone and pass to set spots on the ice. This has made their transition game and zone entry predictable.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3014
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: Roster Questions

Post by herb » Fri May 31, 2013 10:03 am

Topper, the twins don't make the boards go boom therefore they are pussies.

You're right though. They get hit, they get knocked down, but they are very durable and absorb or avoid hits very well. They don't avoid contact, rather they are eager to engage.

It's all relative, of course. Are guys like Krejci and Bergeron tough, or do they just play on the big bad Bruins?

FWIW, I don't think the twins are any less "tough" then other players they are comparable to like Thornton, Marleau, Getzlaf, Perry, Toews, Backstrom, Kane, Koivu, etc.

The issue with this team is that the Sedins need to score every night to win.

User avatar
Uncle dans leg
CC Legend
Posts: 4824
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: Roster Questions

Post by Uncle dans leg » Fri May 31, 2013 10:06 am

Sedins are excellent punching bags. They can take a shit kicking and typically avoid the injury bug.

But toughness to me and obviously others is where you give and take the punishment...and this is where they suck. There were early comparisons to Forsberg if I recall but the reality is that PF could pay a guy back from time to time. Not every shift, not drop the gloves and wail but he would lay a guy out hard on the wall. This commanded the respect of the weasel and rat crowd.

Why can't a guy who is 6'2" and 200lbs run over a 5'9" weasel? He can. Don't tell me in 12 years in the bigs he hasn't had a chance to do this. They just won't. For whatever reason...and this is why Rummy and myself, among others here feel they are wimps. Not in their nature? Coooome on. Speed bagged by doucebag Marchand is a fucking embarassment.
nobody forks...with the jesus

User avatar
Cornuck
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 7500
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:39 am
Location: Everywhere

Re: Roster Questions

Post by Cornuck » Fri May 31, 2013 10:07 am

To me, the issue is that if the Sedin's passing is taken away and they can't score on a clever play, their offense is over. They have spent years perfecting a style of play and it's very likely too late for them to change.
2018-19 - The Road to 82

User avatar
donlever
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1926
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: Roster Questions

Post by donlever » Fri May 31, 2013 10:10 am

herb wrote:Topper, the twins don't make the boards go boom therefore they are pussies.
Clearly there is a differing impression of toughness and it could be debated until the end of time (ad nauseum).

Guys don't drive themselves in workouts like the twins do without being tough.

Does that mean that they will bury a fist in a dudes throat.

No, clearly not.

Doesn't make them wimps or pussies though.

No, they're not Milan Lucic (or Henrik Zetterberg if you prefer) tough, we get it.

It's managements job to fill in size, toughness and attitude around them in order to enhance the skills they do possess.
A different goddamn hockey talk messageboard!

User avatar
donlever
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1926
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: Roster Questions

Post by donlever » Fri May 31, 2013 10:11 am

Cornuck wrote:To me, the issue is that if the Sedin's passing is taken away and they can't score on a clever play, their offense is over. They have spent years perfecting a style of play and it's very likely too late for them to change.
...now this, as opposed to how "tough" they are, we perhaps do need to concern ourselves over.
A different goddamn hockey talk messageboard!

User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3014
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: Roster Questions

Post by herb » Fri May 31, 2013 10:15 am

Agreed that the league has adapted to their style of play and I strongly agree that watching them take and take and take and never give is infuriating.

Other than that, it's the same argument as every year. The team is better with the twins than without at this point, so what should management be doing to make the team better? My answer is to augment Kesler's line and make it more of a 1st line to take the emphasis away from the Sedins. Heck, if we could have the luxury of splitting up the twins and spreading out the purse swinging, even better.

User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3014
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: Roster Questions

Post by herb » Fri May 31, 2013 10:18 am

donlever wrote:
Cornuck wrote:To me, the issue is that if the Sedin's passing is taken away and they can't score on a clever play, their offense is over. They have spent years perfecting a style of play and it's very likely too late for them to change.
...now this, as opposed to how "tough" they are, we perhaps do need to concern ourselves over.
Even more reason to attempt to reinvent the team by splitting them up.

Not saying that's necessarily the answer or the only answer, but we seem to have some issues that could potentially be remedied by remixing our top 6.

The Sedins have become predictable, pass too much and never shoot. Kesler's line has no playmakers, shoots too much and is missing high level talent.

Hmm. The Sedins are clearly all world playmakers with incredible vision and anticipation. Give them a new challenge I say.

User avatar
Uncle dans leg
CC Legend
Posts: 4824
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: Roster Questions

Post by Uncle dans leg » Fri May 31, 2013 10:20 am

herb wrote:Heck, if we could have the luxury of splitting up the twins and spreading out the purse swinging, even better.
Bingo! I feel this is the only way to thrive with them in Canucks colours moving forward. They need some balls on their seperate lines.

Have I said this before???
nobody forks...with the jesus

User avatar
donlever
CC Hall of Fan Member
Posts: 1926
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:07 pm

Re: Roster Questions

Post by donlever » Fri May 31, 2013 10:39 am

herb wrote: Hmm. The Sedins are clearly all world playmakers with incredible vision and anticipation. Give them a new challenge I say.
..it is unfathomable to me how Hank can win an Art Ross and MVP with his brother missing 31 games and Canuck coaches/management can't see this as an opportunity to use their skills on different lines to enhance their use as opposed to allow them to bang their heads against the wall versus a league that clearly appears to have figured them out.

We'll see with the next guy I suppose.
A different goddamn hockey talk messageboard!

nuckster
MVP
MVP
Posts: 493
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:35 am

Re: Roster Questions

Post by nuckster » Fri May 31, 2013 10:45 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:
herb wrote:Heck, if we could have the luxury of splitting up the twins and spreading out the purse swinging, even better.
Bingo! I feel this is the only way to thrive with them in Canucks colours moving forward. They need some balls on their seperate lines.

Have I said this before???
Why not just attempt to make them our second line and find a way to de-emphasize them as our #1. Imagine creating a productive 1st line then having the Sedins as our second line option? It would help create a dynamic where they weren't required to face the other teams #1 line and defense paring...could have a nice effect. Food for thought.
cc oldtimer

User avatar
Rumsfeld
CC Legend
Posts: 4171
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:48 pm
Location: Raqqa

Re: Roster Questions

Post by Rumsfeld » Fri May 31, 2013 10:49 am

Ooh, the white knight has arrived. God forbid someone try to break up the dullness of this forum in the offseason with a little humor.

Here's the thing, Per. Some people don't respect guys who can't stick up for themselves in even the slightest way. Whether it's in their character or not. Especially in a sport that emphasizes that kind of thing. I'm also sure that reading box-scores every morning in pussville doesn't adequately convey the kind of abuse Henrik takes and how scared he is to do anything about it.

I know that guys like you have a lot of respect for the way Henrik plays. I'm sure watching him being abused and doing nothing about it dredges up your own memories of wearing your knickers over your head in high school yet carrying on down the hall with all the dignity you could muster.

I bet you thought that if you ignored them they'd just go away.

But they didn't, did they. Oh no.

They were right there next year, patiently waiting to reintroduce you to the inside of your locker.

See, that's what happens when you let yourself get kicked around year after year. You become a fucking joke and nobody respects you.

Like Henrik.

And yourself and whoever this Orcasfan clown who makes eight posts a year is.
Chairman of the Jim Benning Appreciation Society

User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
Posts: 9667
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Roster Questions

Post by Topper » Fri May 31, 2013 10:56 am

I see nothing wrong, to certain extent, with guys who are 6+' and 200lbs being asked to stand up for themselves. They may not have to drop the gloves, but they don't need to stand in as speed bags either.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

User avatar
herb
CC Legend
Posts: 3014
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: Roster Questions

Post by herb » Fri May 31, 2013 10:57 am

nuckster wrote:Why not just attempt to make them our second line and find a way to de-emphasize them as our #1. Imagine creating a productive 1st line then having the Sedins as our second line option? It would help create a dynamic where they weren't required to face the other teams #1 line and defense paring...could have a nice effect. Food for thought.
Because going out and finding not one but two first line wingers to play with Kesler, without absolutely gutting any youth this organization has, is next to impossible. If we throw already first line winger Dank out with Kesler, then we only need to go out and find a right winger.

Henrik was fucking lights out without Daniel in 2010. These guys clearly don't need to be tied at the hip. I have no idea why Vigneault never, ever went to this as this team's coach. Even when the team was playing like crap, and he was juggling everything else around, he NEVER tried this. Not even on the PP.

I'm just suggesting that sometimes the answer is staring you right in the face. Not saying it would solve all of our problems, but it would reduce the need to find two wingers for Kesler, increase flexibility and give this group a fresh look.

Post Reply