The Fourth Line

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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby sagebrush » Mon May 27, 2013 10:47 am

vic wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Yeah, but we are talking about the Bruins, the team who drafted Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand outside the 1st round. All within a few years of each other. Got Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel, stole Rask from the Leafs. Brilliant thinkers in that organization.

Can we trade our Management for their Management?

A Bruins team who didn't have AV as their coach....

Chiarelli hasn't been shy about trading the future for the present. Jagr cost them a first round pick.

The trade terms with Dallas were conditional, if Boston won 2 playoff rounds, Dallas got their 2013 first round pick. Along with prospects Cody Payne and Lane MacDermid.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby dbr » Mon May 27, 2013 11:29 am

vic wrote:A Bruins team who didn't have AV as their coach....


Hey vic, what are you going to post about as the AV years slip back in the rearview mirror for this organization? :look:
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby dbr » Mon May 27, 2013 11:46 am

I think of the guys we saw this year on the fourth line, Weise, Pinnizotto, Lapierre, Kassian, Sestito, Ebbett, Volpatti, Malhotra.. there are only really one or two guys I'd be in favour of handing a job to for next year - even then I think the line could badly use a stabilizing presence (even if it's not the first, second or third priority for this team right now).

Obviously Volpatti and Malhotra are goners, hopefully Ebbett is too. Kassian, you have to expect bigger things from him next season (although the odd fourth line stint isn't out of the question either). Pinnizotto I did not see much of, nor Sestito but I think either are probably capable of being a 13th forward type who makes it into the lineup to give the team another look or to give the coach a chance to sit a guy who's dogging it out there or what have you.

That really just leaves Dale Weise and Max Lapierre. I think Weise is an every day NHL player at this point and would be happy to have him back even if he's not tough enough to be a goon or talented enough to play up the lineup; he may not truly excel in any of the roles fans have in mind for him but he's big and fast enough and is improving as a role player. Lapierre, he's capable of so much more but most of the time the guy is a run of the mill fourth liner - which is fine because we need one but if the organization wanted to move on for philosophical reasons I could certainly get behind that.

I think to have a real strong fourth line, we'd need to add a player who was on most nights probably the best player on that line - let Lapierre and Weise be run of the mill fourth liners and have that be enough to outplay most other fourth lines most nights. Matt Hendricks is a player whose name bounces around a lot, plays all three positions, takes faceoffs, fights, etc. I don't know enough to say whether he's worth what he's going to get but obviously we'd be in a much better spot to roll four lines with another player of that calibre.

Still I don't know if the team wants to spent $3-4m on a fourth line, sure it'd be great but with the cap crunch and a bunch of extensions kicking in we don't have the luxuries we once did. But if the team is willing to live and die by a few younger players then paying the price to add the right veterans for the right roles might be a real possibility - it's just a matter of whether we're talking about giving kids like Jensen an Schroeder a long look in the top nine and signing the Matt Hendrickses of the world, or giving a kid like Kellen Lain a long look on the fourth line to free up money to finally fix some of those problems in the top six.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby herb » Mon May 27, 2013 1:26 pm

My only real problem with Lapierre is that, like Burrows and Kesler, I think his reputation precedes him which hurts the team. For the most part, he has been a clean and relatively quiet player here, but the agitating is definitely not my style.

If it were my call, the yapper and the biter would be leaving town this off season.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby vic » Mon May 27, 2013 2:57 pm

dbr wrote:
vic wrote:A Bruins team who didn't have AV as their coach....


Hey vic, what are you going to post about as the AV years slip back in the rearview mirror for this organization? :look:


How happy I am that a new coach is all this team needed and he's no longer in the picture.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon May 27, 2013 3:18 pm

herb wrote:My only real problem with Lapierre is that, like Burrows and Kesler, I think his reputation precedes him which hurts the team. For the most part, he has been a clean and relatively quiet player here, but the agitating is definitely not my style.

If it were my call, the yapper and the biter would be leaving town this off season.

My package of players leaving in order to change the dynamic would be all 3...yapper, biter and poser.

Kesler is good but man is he a dick....and not in a good way. Imagine what Nashville would pay?
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby herb » Mon May 27, 2013 3:54 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Kesler is good but man is he a dick....and not in a good way. Imagine what Nashville would pay?


The problem is that we need more centres, not less. I think Hank and Kes are untouchable in management's eyes.

I have concerns about Kesler. He players hard, and is obviously a great two-way player, but really he is a skinny guy who plays all out which leads to injuries. He thinks he's better than he is. That 41 goal season (with 15 power play goals) went to his head, and now he shoots every chance he gets like he thinks he's Steven Stamkos, which I think also makes him one dimensional.

I think a new coach could really benefit Ryan and help give him a renewed focus.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Meds » Mon May 27, 2013 7:49 pm

herb wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Kesler is good but man is he a dick....and not in a good way. Imagine what Nashville would pay?


The problem is that we need more centres, not less. I think Hank and Kes are untouchable in management's eyes.

I have concerns about Kesler. He players hard, and is obviously a great two-way player, but really he is a skinny guy who plays all out which leads to injuries. He thinks he's better than he is. That 41 goal season (with 15 power play goals) went to his head, and now he shoots every chance he gets like he thinks he's Steven Stamkos, which I think also makes him one dimensional.

I think a new coach could really benefit Ryan and help give him a renewed focus.


I think that's a good assessment of Kesler. But I also think he's better than you give him credit for. I think he's got the hardest, if not most accurate, wrist shot on the team. He has a pretty good one-timer too. Unfortunately he also thinks he has hands like Mario Lemieux. Kesler needs a playmaking winger who carries the puck while he attacks the slot and gets into shooting positions for one-timers and snap shots. Honestly, a Marty St. Louis type would probably make Kes a 40 goal scorer again.

Comparing him to Stamkos is pretty fair, Kes is (much) better defensively than Stamkos, but Stamkos is smarter offensively and has a better shot and a bit better hands. I fully expect to see Stamkos drop back to a 35-45 goal scorer once St. Louis retires.....especially since they traded Conacher away for another backup goalie.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby SKYO » Tue May 28, 2013 12:39 am

dbr wrote:or giving a kid like Kellen Lain a long look on the fourth line to free up money to finally fix some of those problems in the top six.


Right forgot about that, Kellan Lain could be that ace in the hole, superb free agent signing for MG and the team.
He'll be 24 I think by the time the next season starts, old enough to play full time in the NHL imo, which will give Gaunce another year to develop.

He is big and mean and skilled – oh and did we mention big? He is Kellan Lain, the newest member of the Vancouver Canucks family.

At 6-foot-6 and 222-pounds, Lain is an intimidating presence on the ice and instantly becomes the largest Canucks prospect in height and weight after a signing a three-year entry level contract with the team on Saturday. Lain will report to the Canucks American Hockey League affiliate, the Chicago Wolves, in the next few days.

“Kellan is a big, strong center with pretty decent skills that skates good,” said Jim Roque, who coached Lain for the last three seasons at Lake Superior State University in the NCAA.

“Obviously his role on my team will be different than what is asked of him at the pro level; on my team he was asked to score a little more and be an offensive guy, I think he has those traits, but I think he is more of a third line checking center, faceoff guy.

“He is competitive, competes hard and has an edge to him”

Canucks director of player development Dave Gagner agrees.

Kellan is a big, strong, detailed player; wins face-offs, finishes checks, plays with an edge, is hard on his opponents and skates well too.

Lain, a native of Oakville, Ontario, spent the last three seasons with the LSSU Lakers, where he accumulated 39 points (21-18-39) and 210 penalty-minutes in 108 games, including 111 penalty minutes in 32 games this past season.

“He hits hard, he is physical, that’s his game,” added Rogue. “He has to play with an edge, play physical and stick his nose in there to be effective.”

At 220 pounds one would think size wouldn’t be an issue, however Roque said adding some weight to his already large frame is a must in order to for him to keep a physical presence at the pro level.

“His body needs to fill out, he needs to get thicker,” said Roque. “He is still a thin kid for a big kid. His body needs to fill out and get bigger if he is to play at 80 games plus playoffs at the pro level.”

In the NCAA, 111 penalty minutes in 32 games is a staggering amount, but Roque says Lain’s size and punishing hits led to referees handing him his share of penalty minutes strictly due to his large stature.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby FAN » Tue May 28, 2013 5:30 am

dbr wrote:That really just leaves Dale Weise and Max Lapierre. I think Weise is an every day NHL player at this point and would be happy to have him back even if he's not tough enough to be a goon or talented enough to play up the lineup; he may not truly excel in any of the roles fans have in mind for him but he's big and fast enough and is improving as a role player. Lapierre, he's capable of so much more but most of the time the guy is a run of the mill fourth liner - which is fine because we need one but if the organization wanted to move on for philosophical reasons I could certainly get behind that.

I wouldn't mind having Weise back since he's been relatively durable for the type of game he plays, but really the team should look for an upgrade. I don't think Weise is an every day NHL player as he's just a big body who isn't all that tough but is more skilled than the average 4th liner. I like Lapierre and want him back. He plays center, hits, can take faceoffs, and has been pretty durable. He had a disappointing playoffs but he's had some strong ones in the past.

herb wrote:I have concerns about Kesler. He players hard, and is obviously a great two-way player, but really he is a skinny guy who plays all out which leads to injuries. He thinks he's better than he is. That 41 goal season (with 15 power play goals) went to his head, and now he shoots every chance he gets like he thinks he's Steven Stamkos, which I think also makes him one dimensional.

This is the first time I heard of Kesler being described as a skinny guy. I think Kesler at his best is a unique player, but he has always been one dimensional. Kesler's offensive game really has evolved since Demitra (RIP) left. When Demitra was here, Kesler would let Demitra have the puck and he would go to scoring areas. Since Demitra, Kesler's power defensive game took over. Kesler at his best is a force, but his game involves him powering his way through the other team's defense, causing turnovers, and using his wrist shot. It's not about making fancy plays or looking for the best shot but applying constant pressure and hammering away. Kesler was never a playmaker to begin with but unfortunately he's now at his best when the puck is on his stick. That's why it's so hard to find linemates for him. It's also why Higgins has had the best chemistry with Kesler. Higgins doesn't carry the puck up ice. He won't lose the puck or diffuse the pressure the way Raymond would. He is at home picking up loose pucks, cycling the puck and driving to the net. Constant pressure! If Kesler shoots and misses Higgins can get the puck and keep the pressure on until he can shoot or Kesler can shoot again.

Meds wrote:Kesler needs a playmaking winger who carries the puck while he attacks the slot and gets into shooting positions for one-timers and snap shots. Honestly, a Marty St. Louis type would probably make Kes a 40 goal scorer again.


I think a playmaker on Kesler's line can work, but it needs to be a smart guy who can make quick passes who doesn't need to have the puck constantly on his stick.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby herb » Tue May 28, 2013 9:08 am

Meds wrote:I think that's a good assessment of Kesler. But I also think he's better than you give him credit for. I think he's got the hardest, if not most accurate, wrist shot on the team. He has a pretty good one-timer too. Unfortunately he also thinks he has hands like Mario Lemieux. Kesler needs a playmaking winger who carries the puck while he attacks the slot and gets into shooting positions for one-timers and snap shots. Honestly, a Marty St. Louis type would probably make Kes a 40 goal scorer again.


Kesler does have a very good shot (wrist, slap and one-timer), but I think he has a little bit too much confidence in his shooting ability and goes to the well too often, when a different play might have been more effective.

Kesler is the opposite of the Sedins who often do not shoot enough and instead elect to make that extra pass (or two). Instead of passing, Kesler is prone to taking a weak shot from the top of the faceoff circle that ends up in the defenceman's shin pads or the goalie's stomach.

How about Daniel Sedin on Kesler's wing? I'd like to see a coach break up the Sedins for an extended stretch and see what happens.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby RoyalDude » Tue May 28, 2013 6:42 pm

vic wrote:
How happy I am that a new coach is all this team needed and he's no longer in the picture.


:rofl:
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu May 30, 2013 4:48 pm

Woot, Sestito is signed for 2 more years. I like what he brings to the team, hopefully he'll improve as a player as he learns more about the system of the team and gets more experience here. I would like to see the Nucks try him on the PP actually, just let him stand in front of the net and he seems pretty good at sliding the puck five hole. He was a pretty good goal scorer in juniors and he put up some decent numbers in the goals dept in the AHL as well.

Now if we can get LapDawg signed, I think our 4th line is set. :D
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby FAN » Thu May 30, 2013 9:32 pm

Gillis sees potential in Sestito. I do too, but I don't think he will ever realize it in the NHL so this is a puzzler for me. No way has he earned himself a two year one-way contract and a raise in year two, but I suppose Gillis still feels he still has a license to spend the boss' money so this is just extra depth.

Sestito is like a slower version of Weise but with better fighting skills. But against a legitimate HW fighter Sestito will lose every time. Oh well... can't hurt to have an extra big body I guess. It will make teams like the Bruins hate us more so that's a good thing?
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Aaronp18 » Thu May 30, 2013 9:58 pm

Maybe a combo of the MMA training and Gary Roberts can bring out the 4th liner we all want :?:
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