The Fourth Line

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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Meds » Sat May 25, 2013 5:18 pm

rats19 wrote:Hair on rats...


Hair on rats' wot? :eh:
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby rats19 » Sat May 25, 2013 5:25 pm

Meds wrote:
rats19 wrote:Hair on rats...


Hair on rats' wot? :eh:

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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Larry Goodenough » Sat May 25, 2013 9:19 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Benjo wrote:Shawn Thornton - signed as a UFA
Dan Paille - Buffalo Sabres traded Daniel Paille to the Boston Bruins for a third-round draft pick and conditional fourth-round pick in 2010.
Gregory Campbell - Florida Panthers traded Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell to the Boston Bruins for Dennis Wideman, a 1st round selection in 2010 and a 3rd round selection in 2011.

Probably the best 4th line in the NHL acquired at little to no cost, I would say the Bruins nabbed Horton for Wideman and the first and threw in a 3rd rounder to get Campbell. The cost of acquiring 4th line talent is so low that I'd say the only difficulty is having a pro scouting department that is good enough to target the right guys. I'd say the Canucks have 1 decent 4th liner in Weise and the rest could be buckled in and fired into free agency. Judging by how well Sturm, Ballard, Booth, Pinizzoto and Bernier worked out I would say the Canucks pro scouting department could be much improved. We may have a couple of up and comers in Lain and Mallet but that's all I can see in our pipeline.


Yeah, but we are talking about the Bruins, the team who drafted Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand outside the 1st round. All within a few years of each other. Got Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel, stole Rask from the Leafs. Brilliant thinkers in that organization.

Can we trade our Management for their Management?


The Bruins drafted Yuri Alexandrov before Lucic and Mark Stuart before Bergeron. Now that's brilliant thinking.

The Bruins won more coin flips than most other teams, it has nothing to do with management.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby rats19 » Sat May 25, 2013 9:26 pm

It seems for every tit.... There be a tat
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Larry Goodenough » Sat May 25, 2013 9:40 pm

rats19 wrote:It seems for every tit.... There be a tat



Chiarelli was also not involved with the Bruins 2006 draft as Ottawa did not give him permission to join Boston until July. So he had nothing to do with the "outside of the first round" list provided .

His last 6 drafts have seen 20 total NHL games played by players his brilliant management team chose outside the 1st round.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Meds » Sat May 25, 2013 10:31 pm

rats19 wrote:It seems for every tit.... There be a tat


So says rat







(s19).
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Sun May 26, 2013 1:06 am

I know I'm in the minority, but I do like Lapierre. I wouldn't mind building a 4th line out of: LapDawg-Weise. Just need to find a good LWer. I actually don't mind Sestito too, just wish he was better @ figthing. I do like the fact that he's always willing to answer the bell though.

Doesn't Sestito look like the prototypical NHL goon? :lol:

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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Orcasfan » Sun May 26, 2013 11:57 am

Yeah, the perennial musings about the 4th line strikes again! Well, no matter how it falls on anyone's priority list, it is still an important piece in building a good team. I like a lot of what Lappy brings (look at his hits). What I don't like is his relationship with the refs as a chirper. So, if they can replace him with another good faceoff C, who can hit, has speed, and (hopefully) a little more offense, then yeah, he is replaceable.

Weiss is OK. He is only 23, so he has not finished developing as a player. I like his speed, his board work, and, at least, he goes to the net. I think, with the right coaching, he can develop as more of an all round player. I would like to see some of our prospects contend for, and, if deserved, be slotted into the 4th line. Guys like Archibald and Mallet. Even someone like Blomstrand may be a good fit. It doesn't mean that this 4th line job is it for these guys. This is not a dead-end. But they should be encouraged to see it as a chance to not only show that they belong in the NHL, but that they can continue to develop as better players yet! That's one reason why I like to see some skill in our 4th line guys. With the right seasoning and training, they have a better chance as real depth players and can move up if needed.

There's no need to try to follow in the Bruins footsteps with the 4th line (a lot of that was lucky trades). I'd prefer to look at the Redwings 4th, as a model to bring in more of our prospects. The main message from the coaches has to be that this is a competitive spot for young guys to play. If they don't give all of themselves, there's another prospect salivating at the chance to replace them! And if the team does put a couple of prospects on the 4th, then they really need to have a mature vet there too, especially one who can be a beneficial role model to the youngsters (don't see Lappy filling this role).
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby FAN » Sun May 26, 2013 12:54 pm

I've always said that having a 4th line capable of playing 10+ minutes a game in the playoffs is a huge advantage and I have in the past praised Gillis for recognizing that. But the story for Gillis and the Canucks is that Gillis seems to recognize the team's needs, attempts to fill those needs, but has come away almost empty handed. But right now, unlike the previous years, I agree with those that say that the 4th line is the least of the team's problems.

One thing that struck me in the whole Volpatti fiasco is Gillis' belief that 4th liners should be able to kill penalties. Initially I thought that was just crazy. It seems Gillis wants guys who are skilled enough to contribute offensively, fight, hit enough to wear the other team down, and be able to kill penalties. Those kind of guys aren't 4th liners. Well I looked things up and it seems that many teams do utilize their 4th liners on the PK. Under AV, Burrows and Kesler are heavily used. Obviously, the Canucks have had a strong PK the past few years and any team would be hard pressed to find an upgrade over Burrows and Kesler on the PK. But should Gillis force the new coach to take Kesler and Burrows off the PK so they can focus their energies on scoring and save their bodies?

I think Gillis should go back to looking for specialists instead of looking for guys who the team considers to have offensive upside when they are simply just average across the board. Acquire young versions of guys like Craig Adams who you know will never be a scorer in the NHL instead of guys like Dale Wiese who tricks his coach into believing he has the skills to audition for the first line. While it may be tempting to suggest that the Canucks follow the Boston model of having a quality 4th line, the reality is that Campbell makes $1.6M, Paille makes $1.3M, Thornton makes $1.1M. The Canucks are probably better off leaving a couple of roster spots for guys like Lain and Friesen rather than Ebbett.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Per » Sun May 26, 2013 1:33 pm

rats19 wrote:Hair on rats...


Then explain this: :eh:

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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby rats19 » Sun May 26, 2013 2:04 pm

Per wrote:
rats19 wrote:Hair on rats...


Then explain this: :eh:


Mexican cousin...lol
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby SKYO » Sun May 26, 2013 2:44 pm

Big Badass Bold move #2 for MG/new coach....give Gaunce a full time position on the 4th line center spot, 8 min per...especially if we get a coach like Eakins, he will help develop players like this pretty good imo.

Sign, hopefully turned UFA in July, Craig Adams to a 2yr - $1.5M contract, a 4th liner who can play a great defensive/checking game who more importantly can play center and wing, play him on the wing mentoring Gaunce.

If we get a trade with Florida get Parros included, or if NYI get M Martin included.

Canucks new fourth line:

Adams - Gaunce - Parros or Martin.

/thread. :P
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Sun May 26, 2013 11:53 pm

SKYO wrote:Big Badass Bold move #2 for MG/new coach....give Gaunce a full time position on the 4th line center spot, 8 min per...especially if we get a coach like Eakins, he will help develop players like this pretty good imo.


I'm generally not in favour of rushing young players to the bigs, unless they have great maturity (ie - Linden) or have bluechip superstar talent (ie - Crosby). Many young players who were rushed into the NHL had their confidence and careers destroyed because of it (ie - Gilbert Brule). I'd much rather let Gaunce play a ton of minutes in juniors, develop his game, learn from his coaches there, and gain some confidence by dominating that lvl rather than play 5 minutes a nite in the NHL and be a healthy scratch on a regular basis. In the NHL, there's no room for error. Mistakes are magnified and if he makes too many, he's going to be sitting in the press box more often than not. If he's not ready, it's going to be men against a boy out there.

Heck, I would even play Gaunce in the AHL for a year or 2 before seriously giving him some NHL minutes. It's not like we urgently need him to crack the lineup right away and he's still a growing boy and filling out. Also, I know he's a weak skater. He could get burned out there by NHL speed and he could probably use a couple of years to get stronger and improve his skating and speed. If he plays on our 4th line, it's not like he'll be playing a big role in the outcome of the majority of games anyways. I'd much rather sign a solid veteran like Lappierre or Malhotra to play on our 4th line than a 19 year old kid.

I like the way we have been taking a page out of the detroit prospect factory. They take their time with their prospects, even when some guys might be ready, those guys are not rushed into the NHL. It isn't until a guy is totally ripe then he is brought up to prime time NHL. I like the way the canucks have slowly brought up guys like Kesler, Schneids, Edler, Bieksa, Hansen and most recently Coho, Grabner, Schroeder and Tanev. Let them get their feet wet in the pro lvl where they can make some mistakes (AHL) before thrusting them into the deep waters of the NHL. It's sink or swim in the big leagues and if a guy is not ready, he will drown and his career could go down the tank before we even know it.

I feel the same way with Corrado. I'd like to slowly bring him along like we did with Tanev. Sign some veteran guys for the 6th-7th D-man like Alberts/Barker on the big squad. Give Corrado alot of ice time in the farm. Let him play speciality teams (PP and/or PK) and in important minutes (ie - defending a 1 goal lead late in the game). If he shows enuff promise, make him one of our first guys to call when we have injuries, hopefully he'll rack up alot of air miles going back and forth from here and the farm (*hehe). Only when he shows he's clearly ready (outplays our 6th-7th guy), then make a roster spot for him.


Sign, hopefully turned UFA in July, Craig Adams to a 2yr - $1.5M contract, a 4th liner who can play a great defensive/checking game who more importantly can play center and wing, play him on the wing mentoring Gaunce.


As far as Craig Adams goes? I dunno. He's prety old @ 36 and the guy was drafted by the Hartford Whalers. :|
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby FAN » Mon May 27, 2013 4:35 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I'm generally not in favour of rushing young players to the bigs

...

Heck, I would even play Gaunce in the AHL for a year or 2 before seriously giving him some NHL minutes. It's not like we urgently need him to crack the lineup right away and he's still a growing boy and filling out.

I like the way we have been taking a page out of the detroit prospect factory. They take their time with their prospects, even when some guys might be ready, those guys are not rushed into the NHL.

I'm the same way. I think that an extra year in juniors and time spent in the AHL can't hurt a prospect while rushing a prospect to the NHL can potentially ruin a prospect. With that said, Gaunce does have a pro-sized body (he was one of the strongest prospects in his draft class to begin with) and plays a mature game. Will he further develop his offensive game at the OHL level? Will Gaunce project to be a 2nd line center or 3rd line center? If it's the former, it might be best to let him develop his offensive game in juniors and then in the minors, if it's the latter, I think you give Gaunce every chance to prove that he can play on the Canucks' 4th line and hope he earns more minutes during the season. But ya unless Gaunce really looks like he's ready, there's really no rush. The team does have Kellan Lain who is likely further along in development.

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I feel the same way with Corrado. I'd like to slowly bring him along like we did with Tanev. Sign some veteran guys for the 6th-7th D-man like Alberts/Barker on the big squad. Give Corrado alot of ice time in the farm. Let him play speciality teams (PP and/or PK) and in important minutes (ie - defending a 1 goal lead late in the game). If he shows enuff promise, make him one of our first guys to call when we have injuries, hopefully he'll rack up alot of air miles going back and forth from here and the farm (*hehe). Only when he shows he's clearly ready (outplays our 6th-7th guy), then make a roster spot for him.

I feel differently about Corrado. I think if Corrado has a good offseason and has a good camp you keep him and partner him with a stable partner. He can average 14-16 minutes on the third pairing and learn the pro game in the NHL. If the 7 games were anything to go by, Corrado is capable of playing in the NHL with his poise and decision making. I think that Tanev's situation was a bit different in that Tanev didn't get the audition that Corrado got and the Canucks started the year with a deep defense. After Tanev had proven himself, the only reason Tanev spent time in the minors this season was because of the lockout and because Tanev started the year with some poor play.
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Re: The Fourth Line

Postby vic » Mon May 27, 2013 10:36 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Benjo wrote:Shawn Thornton - signed as a UFA
Dan Paille - Buffalo Sabres traded Daniel Paille to the Boston Bruins for a third-round draft pick and conditional fourth-round pick in 2010.
Gregory Campbell - Florida Panthers traded Nathan Horton and Gregory Campbell to the Boston Bruins for Dennis Wideman, a 1st round selection in 2010 and a 3rd round selection in 2011.

Probably the best 4th line in the NHL acquired at little to no cost, I would say the Bruins nabbed Horton for Wideman and the first and threw in a 3rd rounder to get Campbell. The cost of acquiring 4th line talent is so low that I'd say the only difficulty is having a pro scouting department that is good enough to target the right guys. I'd say the Canucks have 1 decent 4th liner in Weise and the rest could be buckled in and fired into free agency. Judging by how well Sturm, Ballard, Booth, Pinizzoto and Bernier worked out I would say the Canucks pro scouting department could be much improved. We may have a couple of up and comers in Lain and Mallet but that's all I can see in our pipeline.


Yeah, but we are talking about the Bruins, the team who drafted Lucic, Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand outside the 1st round. All within a few years of each other. Got Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel, stole Rask from the Leafs. Brilliant thinkers in that organization.

Can we trade our Management for their Management?


A Bruins team who didn't have AV as their coach....
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