Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby damonberryman » Tue May 14, 2013 5:17 pm

Four and out. That is on the players. The coach and the GM cannot play with heart on the ice and neither did many Canucks, so we lost. We need another first line. The Sedins are not done but the NHL has learned to defend them. We need another serious scoring threat to get the big goal. We do not have it. A kid like Hall in Edmonton is exactly what we need along with an absolute killer like McIlrath on D. We punked out just like Boston. The team as it currently stands does not have the nuts to win in the playoffs. I do not think we are far away but we better get some kids with mean in them who do not like to lose. When Daniel apologized to the ref for screaming at him I had a moment of clarity. The Sedins are wonderful people and players but they are secondary rather than primary. Maybe Gaunce will be Captain material eventually. At this point we need to mortgage the future and get Jones or McKinnon in the draft before the window closes. What Gillis does this year will determine much. He is going to have to make some moves. Give Colorado whatever they want and get Jones. We need him.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby black ace » Thu May 16, 2013 12:15 pm

I really dont buy into the whole AV cant/wont develop young forwards. The argument basically comes down to Hodgson and Kassian. Hodgson I think was coming along fine except for over protective parents and Kassian is a young player with poor work ethic both on and off the ice. I think its too early to tell what kind of player he will be but to put that on the coach after he plays about 50 NHL games here is a little premature.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby FAN » Fri May 17, 2013 3:40 am

black ace wrote:I really dont buy into the whole AV cant/wont develop young forwards. The argument basically comes down to Hodgson and Kassian. Hodgson I think was coming along fine except for over protective parents and Kassian is a young player with poor work ethic both on and off the ice. I think its too early to tell what kind of player he will be but to put that on the coach after he plays about 50 NHL games here is a little premature.

There's a difference between a player developing all on his own and a young player's development being held back. Let's use Stamkos as an example. Stamkos broke into the league under Barry Melrose and struggled. Melrose didn't like him, managed his minutes, and never put Stamkos in a position to succeed. After the coaching change Stamkos was given more minutes and offensive opportunities and by the end of his first season, Stamkos had scored 9 goals in his last 13 games. Would Stamkos have scored 9 goals in his last 13 games had Melrose remained his coach? I don't think so. Stamkos would have spent the entire year playing his 10-12 minutes with pluggers. But I don't think there's much a chance in hell that Melrose could ruin a player like Stamkos. He was too talented.

I think Gillis touched on this before, but when deciding whether to fast track a player, you try to determine what will likely be the best lineup at the end of the season and not just the beginning of the season. I bet some coaches do the same. While Hodgson is no where near Stamkos, Hodgson's offensive talents and upside were obvious. I understand that winning games is important, but the Canucks weren't going to miss the playoffs playing Hodgson a lot of minutes. The Canucks probably wouldn't even be affected in the overall standings. AV had a guy whose offensive upside exceeded most of the players that AV was playing ahead of Hodgson. Another coach might realize that and play Hodgson thinking that by the end of the season Hodgson would have surpassed some of the veterans on the team. But of course AV can't help himself and want guys like Hodgson and Kassian to go through some adversity in their lives.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Fri May 17, 2013 7:09 am

black ace wrote:I really dont buy into the whole AV cant/wont develop young forwards. The argument basically comes down to Hodgson and Kassian. Hodgson I think was coming along fine except for over protective parents and Kassian is a young player with poor work ethic both on and off the ice. I think its too early to tell what kind of player he will be but to put that on the coach after he plays about 50 NHL games here is a little premature.


You mean, you cannot see that once AV is gone, Kassian will flip the switch and turn into Cam Neely right before our eyes?

Brilliant post BTW, nice to see there is intelligent life on these boards.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Uncle dans leg » Fri May 17, 2013 8:06 am

damonberryman wrote:Four and out. That is on the players. The coach and the GM cannot play with heart on the ice and neither did many Canucks, so we lost. We need another first line. The Sedins are not done but the NHL has learned to defend them. We need another serious scoring threat to get the big goal. We do not have it. A kid like Hall in Edmonton is exactly what we need along with an absolute killer like McIlrath on D. We punked out just like Boston. The team as it currently stands does not have the nuts to win in the playoffs. I do not think we are far away but we better get some kids with mean in them who do not like to lose. When Daniel apologized to the ref for screaming at him I had a moment of clarity. The Sedins are wonderful people and players but they are secondary rather than primary. Maybe Gaunce will be Captain material eventually. At this point we need to mortgage the future and get Jones or McKinnon in the draft before the window closes. What Gillis does this year will determine much. He is going to have to make some moves. Give Colorado whatever they want and get Jones. We need him.

Thats pretty close to my feelings about the team. This core had their shot and fell short.

Trying to tweak it will only turn the Canucks into the Flames. Like the Flames should have done with Iginla, the Canucks need to move forward and re-invent everything that has become stale. Warriors are needed.

I guess this will surely define GMMG as either a top exec or a bust. Time will tell, and we'll know by next fall.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby tantalum » Fri May 17, 2013 11:12 am

Pretty sure Gillis did in fact put a good chunk of responsibility on his shoulders in the press conference. Offering some reality to media (such as lack of moves during short season etc) doesn't equate to excuses. he owned up to not doing enough and not adjusting to how the league was going quick enough. Not sure what else you want. You could have had this:

"It happened. We all know it happened. And I don't think it would ever happen again," he said. "I don't think we have to do anything differently because I think it's one of those things in sports -- you'll see it once in a lifetime and we were part of it and that's unfortunate."


Yep. Do Nothing Dave Nonis strikes again. Thank goodness it's for the Leafs and not the canucks anymore
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri May 17, 2013 12:51 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
black ace wrote:I really dont buy into the whole AV cant/wont develop young forwards. The argument basically comes down to Hodgson and Kassian. Hodgson I think was coming along fine except for over protective parents and Kassian is a young player with poor work ethic both on and off the ice. I think its too early to tell what kind of player he will be but to put that on the coach after he plays about 50 NHL games here is a little premature.


You mean, you cannot see that once AV is gone, Kassian will flip the switch and turn into Cam Neely right before our eyes?

Brilliant post BTW, nice to see there is intelligent life on these boards.


Yes and AV will suddenly rip off multiple cups and become Toe Blake after he gets away from Gillis and the horrible team here in Vancouver.

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri May 17, 2013 12:52 pm

tantalum wrote:Pretty sure Gillis did in fact put a good chunk of responsibility on his shoulders in the press conference. Offering some reality to media (such as lack of moves during short season etc) doesn't equate to excuses. he owned up to not doing enough and not adjusting to how the league was going quick enough. Not sure what else you want. You could have had this:

"It happened. We all know it happened. And I don't think it would ever happen again," he said. "I don't think we have to do anything differently because I think it's one of those things in sports -- you'll see it once in a lifetime and we were part of it and that's unfortunate."


Yep. Do Nothing Dave Nonis strikes again. Thank goodness it's for the Leafs and not the canucks anymore



But... but ... but... but Dave Nonis left all these great players here for Gillis. They missed the playoffs two out of three seasons but that is likely Gillis's fault too.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby black ace » Mon May 20, 2013 1:00 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
black ace wrote:I really dont buy into the whole AV cant/wont develop young forwards. The argument basically comes down to Hodgson and Kassian. Hodgson I think was coming along fine except for over protective parents and Kassian is a young player with poor work ethic both on and off the ice. I think its too early to tell what kind of player he will be but to put that on the coach after he plays about 50 NHL games here is a little premature.


You mean, you cannot see that once AV is gone, Kassian will flip the switch and turn into Cam Neely right before our eyes?

Brilliant post BTW, nice to see there is intelligent life on these boards.


Yes and AV will suddenly rip off multiple cups and become Toe Blake after he gets away from Gillis and the horrible team here in Vancouver.

Nice to see you have another hand puppet .



And the Canucks will likely rip off 3-4 cups in the next 5 years with the new coach here.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Mon May 20, 2013 4:07 pm

black ace wrote:

And the Canucks will likely rip off 3-4 cups in the next 5 years with the new coach here.


LMAO! The magic bullet according to some around here, like it's al his doing, AV, Jack Adams winner, two presidents trophies, blah, blah, blah, is all of a sudden is the reason why this team sucks and has NOTHING to do with the roster Gillis has given him to work with. All his fault.

But hey, a lot of folks here are big believers in the flip the switch theory and going by that the Canucks will win 3-4 with a new coach, cause we all know that this same cast of characters AV has to direct will flip the switch once we see a new coach step in. Sort of like what's been happening in Edmonton, how many coaches have they gone through now? Maybe, just maybe MGMT will wake up and realize that it's the management that needs to be shown the door and not the coaches.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Mon May 20, 2013 11:09 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
black ace wrote:

And the Canucks will likely rip off 3-4 cups in the next 5 years with the new coach here.


LMAO! The magic bullet according to some around here, like it's al his doing, AV, Jack Adams winner, two presidents trophies, blah, blah, blah, is all of a sudden is the reason why this team sucks and has NOTHING to do with the roster Gillis has given him to work with. All his fault.

But hey, a lot of folks here are big believers in the flip the switch theory and going by that the Canucks will win 3-4 with a new coach, cause we all know that this same cast of characters AV has to direct will flip the switch once we see a new coach step in. Sort of like what's been happening in Edmonton, how many coaches have they gone through now? Maybe, just maybe MGMT will wake up and realize that it's the management that needs to be shown the door and not the coaches.


Dude, do you really not get the concept of a coach going stale with a team?

Just because someone recognizes that the coach seems to need a change of scenery doesn't mean a failure to recognize that there are other problems with the team (management, ownership, players).

Who gives a shit about the Jack Adams and 2 President Trophies. Your argument has always been that the team has failed in the playoffs. Are you saying that regular season accolades are now a passing grade for the coach?

Moron.

Remember, Randy Carlyle won the Stanley Cup with Anaheim. He was fired 4 years later after the team began to falter and failed to get beyond the 2nd round. Vigneault won the Jack Adams and 5 years later is behind the bench of a team that has only advanced beyond the 2nd round once. But go ahead, wave your Vigneault flag and champion his cause based on past accomplishments.

Seriously RD. You can do way better that that.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue May 21, 2013 9:17 am

black ace wrote:

And the Canucks will likely rip off 3-4 cups in the next 5 years with the new coach here.


Not sure about that, as I think AV is a decent coach. Clearly however, the message from him to the players isn't getting through as frequently as it once did. For the record I believe the blame can be divided equally among three parties, the players, the GM and the coach. For what it's worth I would like to see a re-tool, a new coach and a GM with his feet to the fire on his last chance if things don't improve. RD on the other hand lays all the blame on the GM which is absurd. He backpedals and flip flops on so many issues I wonder if the man has a spine. The coach is the easiest one to get rid of, but I would also turn over about 1/3 of the roster and move a core piece or two.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue May 21, 2013 9:23 am

Meds wrote:Seriously RD. You can do way better that that.

It's not that he's mad so much as disappointed...
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Reefer2 » Tue May 21, 2013 10:12 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Not sure about that, as I think AV is a decent coach. Clearly however, the message from him to the players isn't getting through as frequently as it once did. For the record I believe the blame can be divided equally among three parties, the players, the GM and the coach. For what it's worth I would like to see a re-tool, a new coach and a GM with his feet to the fire on his last chance if things don't improve. RD on the other hand lays all the blame on the GM which is absurd. He backpedals and flip flops on so many issues I wonder if the man has a spine. The coach is the easiest one to get rid of, but I would also turn over about 1/3 of the roster and move a core piece or two.


I agree Blob, there is not one party to blame, which is why I want to see 2 - 4 core playrs gone, new coach and MG is changed if he does nothing.

2 weeks since the Nucks lost and were out of the playoffs, no word on AV so this makes me think that he is back for another year. I know you don't rush things but holy shit bat man, if MG did not have plan B ready then he is highly over rated and needs to go now.

I guess it is all up to Aquaman and his brothers.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue May 21, 2013 10:23 am

Reefer2 wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Not sure about that, as I think AV is a decent coach. Clearly however, the message from him to the players isn't getting through as frequently as it once did. For the record I believe the blame can be divided equally among three parties, the players, the GM and the coach. For what it's worth I would like to see a re-tool, a new coach and a GM with his feet to the fire on his last chance if things don't improve. RD on the other hand lays all the blame on the GM which is absurd. He backpedals and flip flops on so many issues I wonder if the man has a spine. The coach is the easiest one to get rid of, but I would also turn over about 1/3 of the roster and move a core piece or two.


I agree Blob, there is not one party to blame, which is why I want to see 2 - 4 core playrs gone, new coach and MG is changed if he does nothing.

2 weeks since the Nucks lost and were out of the playoffs, no word on AV so this makes me think that he is back for another year. I know you don't rush things but holy shit bat man, if MG did not have plan B ready then he is highly over rated and needs to go now.

I guess it is all up to Aquaman and his brothers.

Isn't he waiting for Torts to get canned?
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