How about this then....

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Re: How about this then....

Postby dbr » Sat May 11, 2013 1:16 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Like the great Ken Holland always says, "I would never invest that much into a goalie."


:lol:

Ken Holland wrote:"My feeling is if you can get one of the five or six best goalies in the league you can spend the money," Holland said. "We can't get into those guys, and the difference between the eighth goalie in the league and the 15th goalie, it's a big difference in money. It's not a big difference in performance."


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Re: How about this then....

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 11, 2013 1:45 pm

Meds wrote:When it comes to goaltending in (most) playoff series, you need it to be elite.

That being said, it doesn't have to be an "elite goalie".

Look at the goaltending in the different series in the first round this year.

Nabokov vs Fleury. Both have been total sieves. The Pens should have bounced New York in 5 at the most. Vokoun replaced MAF and started off with a shutout.

Anderson vs Price. Anderson stood on his head at times, Price played like a noodle strainer at times. Ottawa moved on in 5.

Rask vs Reimer. This is a crap shoot. Rask has been incredible in some moments, Reimer has faced a pile of shots, but many the goals that have beat him have very questionable.

Lundqvist vs Holtby. Here you have an elite goaltender up against a hotshot, streaky youngster. The youngster is getting it done. Holtby has been brilliant for the last month in Washington. Lundqvist has let in some real weak goals this series.

Quick vs Elliot. Quick looked shaky on a few early on. Then he rallied and gave LA the time it needed to build up a head of steam. Elliot let in some bad goals.

Harding vs Anderson. Harding played elite hockey for the first few games and was the only reason that the Wild were even around for game 5. Anderson was his equal at the other game in all but game 3. Once Harding came back down to earth the Wild were toast.

Hiller vs Howard. I haven't paid attention to this series.


Of these 14 goalies, 3 of them are deserving of elite status - Price, Lundquvist and Quick.

Any goalie would look great playing for the Bruins when you boast the best defensive defenseman in the game in Chara who plays like every 2nd shift and the best defensive forward in Bergeron not to mention that the Bruins are the best face off team in the league. The same applies to the Babcock Wings. Datsyuk and Zeterberg give Bergeron a run for his money on best defensive forwards in the game. Howard is not an elite goalie, he benefits from a sound team system like Elliot has with the Hitchcock Blues

The Blackhawks are the best team in the game. Emery and Crawford? LOL. Toews is another amazing defensive forward, that is a very good team. Corey Hirsch would look like Bernie Parent there

Quick may very well be the only elite goalie playing after the first round.


The Canucks apparently have the best goalie tandem in the game and the got their asses kicked in 4 straight games in the first round.

Elite goaltending is overrated. However if the Kings win the cup again you may win this argument but it does help that Kings also have some damn fine players in front of Quick, that being said, the best goalie in the game - Rinne has been golfing this post season

You need good goaltending, for sure but the record shows that you can get by with average goaltending if you got the pieces in front if you, if you don't elite goaltending will not make up for that i.e., the Vancouver Canucks!
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sat May 11, 2013 2:31 pm

LOL how the dude just glosses over dbrs post. He must have missed it. Dude you are the Garth Butcher of the board. Always show up but lead with your face. :drink: :lol:
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Meds » Sun May 12, 2013 5:03 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Any goalie would look great playing for the Bruins when you boast the best defensive defenseman in the game in Chara who plays like every 2nd shift and the best defensive forward in Bergeron not to mention that the Bruins are the best face off team in the league. The same applies to the Babcock Wings. Datsyuk and Zeterberg give Bergeron a run for his money on best defensive forwards in the game. Howard is not an elite goalie, he benefits from a sound team system like Elliot has with the Hitchcock Blues.


Chara plays 24 minutes per game, on average. Not quite every other shift, but I digress on that. The Bruins do have a very good defense, probably top 3 in the NHL. In fact, most goaltenders, who earn that "elite" status, play behind a very good defense, and failing a very good defense their team boasts an incredible offense that controls the puck and dominates with possession. But nonetheless, Rask took the starting job from Thomas for a while, then Thomas took it back, they seemed to share it for a while, now Thomas is gone and Rask is the man. He's been projected to be a top 10 goaltender since he was drafted. I remember watching him at the WJC, and he was lights out for Finland. There is no denying that a goalie who earns a Vezina nomination, and plays like he does, has earned the right to at least be considered as an elite goaltender.

The Red Wings defense is not very good any more. They have to win by committee and rely heavily on puck possession. That being said, early on in the year they weren't looking good, and it was when Howard finally hit his stride that they limped into the playoffs. Shutting out the opponent in the must win game to end the season has no bearing on how good a goaltender is though.....especially when he goes on a tear, when his team is battling for their playoff lives, and only allows 4 goals in the final 5 games to end the year. I'm not saying Howard is elite. Just that he gets hot and plays at an elite level more often than your average streaky goaltender.

Elliot is a good example of team defense. But, then again, I said he let in bad goals. Didn't say he was elite or even playing like he could be considered as such.

RoyalDude wrote:The Blackhawks are the best team in the game. Emery and Crawford? LOL. Toews is another amazing defensive forward, that is a very good team. Corey Hirsch would look like Bernie Parent there.


Yep, all true.....except for the part about Hirsch. Crawford posted a 1.94 GAA and a .926 SV% this year. The GAA can reflect the team, the SV% not as much. In the first round of the playoffs he has 1.32 GAA and a .950 SV%. If you've watched those games you have seen how good he has been with the exception of game 3.

RoyalDude wrote:Elite goaltending is overrated. However if the Kings win the cup again you may win this argument but it does help that Kings also have some damn fine players in front of Quick, that being said, the best goalie in the game - Rinne has been golfing this post season

You need good goaltending, for sure but the record shows that you can get by with average goaltending if you got the pieces in front if you, if you don't elite goaltending will not make up for that i.e., the Vancouver Canucks!


I'm curious as to why you think Rinne is the best goaltender in the NHL. He's top 5. Actually I think that the top 5 is a list that is in constant flux as one of those names will sometimes beat another and so forth. The Trotz coached Preds are a team that relies totally on team defense, it's their first and only priority out there, they score off of their opponent's screw ups. Interesting that Rinne's numbers dipped after they lost some key pieces, most notably Suter.....oh, he's a Norris candidate this year isn't he.....

Outside of Fleury and Osgood, what team has won the Stanley Cup in recent years without getting an elite level of play from their goaltender? Not necessarily an "elite" top 5 goaltender, but that level of play.

But if you go back to the first two lines of the post that you just argued against.....

Meds wrote:When it comes to goaltending in (most) playoff series, you need it to be elite.

That being said, it doesn't have to be an "elite goalie".


.....hmmmmm.
Maybe you need to actually read what you're responding to... :roll:
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Re: How about this then....

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 12, 2013 6:55 pm

Meds wrote:
Chara plays 24 minutes per game, on average. Not quite every other shift, but I digress on that.


So he's 6 minutes shy of 30 which would be every 2nd shift. Me bad
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Re: How about this then....

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 12, 2013 6:58 pm

Well, it isn't elite goaltending if your apparently elite goaltenders are not your best players night in night out, stealing your team some hockey games. And if Schneider and Luongo ain't doing that for us, who the fuck is going to miss them and why is Gillis paying them so much? Trade them both for a decent goalie and build a solid defense and a good group of forwards like what seems to be the ticket to winning in the NHL these days. There are quite a few average goalies looking good right now all because of the teams in front of them. Gillis took the opposite approach of going the year with apparently two elite goalies and many holes on defense and at forward thinking this would be our ticket straight to the Stanley Cup and it quite unsurprisingly, at least it was to me, was proven wrong. Are we surprised? No, cause Gillis is a players agent not a team builder
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Re: How about this then....

Postby SKYO » Sun May 12, 2013 7:43 pm

If Ken Holland was running the show here in Canuckland and the Canucks were modeling themselves after the perennial contender RedWings, he would instantly re-sign the Sedins till they were 38-39 @ $5.5M per, which would be a bargain!

As like em or not, the Twins keep us near the top of the league every season and when they have other lines that can score, they are truly invaluable.

He would trade Bieksa for a winger for Kesler, find a large veteran solid playmaking center to play on the 3rd, and have some fun with some big trades involving the defense and goaltending.

Bieksa is available for help up front, as Tanev now can step in on the right side!

Gaunce and Jensen would get a lot of minutes in the AHL and be called up sporadically next season to keep the young influx of cheap good players coming in.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Meds » Sun May 12, 2013 9:04 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Well, it isn't elite goaltending if your apparently elite goaltenders are not your best players night in night out, stealing your team some hockey games. And if Schneider and Luongo ain't doing that for us, who the fuck is going to miss them and why is Gillis paying them so much? Trade them both for a decent goalie and build a solid defense and a good group of forwards like what seems to be the ticket to winning in the NHL these days. There are quite a few average goalies looking good right now all because of the teams in front of them. Gillis took the opposite approach of going the year with apparently two elite goalies and many holes on defense and at forward thinking this would be our ticket straight to the Stanley Cup and it quite unsurprisingly, at least it was to me, was proven wrong. Are we surprised? No, cause Gillis is a players agent not a team builder


Ummmm.....it IS elite goaltending if they steal the games they need to steal. Which is what teams who go all the way generally get.

Schneider is actually a bargain at that price.

And we all know you think he should have traded Luongo for a bag of pucks and a handjob.

And as for a solid defense and a good group of forwards.....it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference who they were if they were playing the Canucks' perimeter system with nobody going to the net.

It's like talking to a fucking retarded hamster..... :stupid:
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Re: How about this then....

Postby CFP! » Sun May 12, 2013 10:12 pm

Meds wrote:It's like talking to a fucking retarded hamster..... :stupid:


I guess your kid isnt old enough for BOLT?

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Re: How about this then....

Postby Meds » Sun May 12, 2013 10:20 pm

CFP! wrote:
Meds wrote:It's like talking to a fucking retarded hamster..... :stupid:


I guess your kid isnt old enough for BOLT?

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Unlikely. My oldest is negative 26 weeks old. ;)
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Aaronp18 » Sun May 12, 2013 10:37 pm

donlever wrote:Smith is intriguing, especially considering the puck moving ability which is pro-active thinking on your part.

But in this fantasy scenario to pricey prolly eh?


I was watching the Canada/Czech game today and I love that head manning of the puck you get from Smith.

I thought of a way we can possibly pull this off.

Move Luo at the draft > trade Raymond's rights for Smiths > sign Smith to a 5 year $25M deal > move Schneids to the highest bidder!! > Win Cup

If we can pull that off before July 1st teams will line up for a shot at Schneider. Could be a huge return.

All of this depends on a lot of IF's but it would sure be fun to watch it unfold.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby FAN » Mon May 13, 2013 5:51 am

Oops posted in wrong thread.
Last edited by FAN on Mon May 13, 2013 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby RoyalDude » Mon May 13, 2013 6:21 am

Meds wrote:
It's like talking to a fucking retarded hamster..... :stupid:


Then ask yourself this Lenny, why do you respond/challenge a fucking retarded hamsters every single post? You must be more fucking retarded than a fucking retard hamster.

"Hey, look at me mom, I'm having a discussion with a fucking retarded hamster!" WOOOHOOO!

Another Chapther in the great saga Of Mice and Men, RoyalDude and Lenny Small (Meds)

Keep chasing your tail Meds, ya dumb ass.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Mondi » Mon May 13, 2013 11:06 am

If the Pens had got bounced in the first round, or if they get bounced in the second (which they won't), does anyone think they would consider Schneider and Kesler for MAF and Malkin?

Since we are all dreaming here anyway.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Cornuck » Mon May 13, 2013 11:41 am

Why do I keep thinking of Cloutier when I see this thread? :|
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