How about this then....

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Re: How about this then....

Postby ukcanuck » Fri May 10, 2013 2:23 pm

Nobody is concerned that Schneider technically folded against Chicago in 2011 and in game three this year?
Making it pretty much the same story with both goalies?

I'm still worried that Cory only looks better because he's not had the chances to melt down that Luongo has..
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Re: How about this then....

Postby donlever » Fri May 10, 2013 2:24 pm

tantalum wrote: You have to be sure you get a #1 though that is equivalent or better and damn that's a tough task.


Really, do we really tho tant?

Niemi won a Cup.

Ward won a Cup.

Khabibulin won a Cup.

Osgood more than one.

Hell, Fleury won a Cup.

Emery, Kolzig, the Boucher whoever that guy is tandem in Philly went to a Final.

One step down guys can get it down as well no?
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Aaronp18 » Fri May 10, 2013 2:36 pm

Good thinking donny!

From the Gills and Vigneault Thread
Aaronp18 wrote:As far as I'm concerned Gillis should field offers from every team for every player.

If a deal has the chance to make this team significantly better it needs to be heard.

I just don't see guys like the Sedins, Kesler, Hamhuis, and Garrison being moved though (not that many have advocated shopping these guys). I think we can move the other parts (not all of them obviously) and redefine this team.

Hell maybe we move both our goalies and pick up Mike Smith. What would we look like with a goalie that can move the puck up to our d-men or even the forwards faster?

Explore all options.


:thumbs:

Great minds....
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Re: How about this then....

Postby donlever » Fri May 10, 2013 2:42 pm

Aaronp18 wrote: Mike Smith.
Great minds....


Smith is intriguing, especially considering the puck moving ability which is pro-active thinking on your part.

But in this fantasy scenario to pricey prolly eh?
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Arachnid » Fri May 10, 2013 2:44 pm

Aaronp18 wrote:Good thinking donny!

From the Gills and Vigneault Thread
Aaronp18 wrote:As far as I'm concerned Gillis should field offers from every team for every player.

If a deal has the chance to make this team significantly better it needs to be heard.

I just don't see guys like the Sedins, Kesler, Hamhuis, and Garrison being moved though (not that many have advocated shopping these guys). I think we can move the other parts (not all of them obviously) and redefine this team.

Hell maybe we move both our goalies and pick up Mike Smith. What would we look like with a goalie that can move the puck up to our d-men or even the forwards faster?

Explore all options.


:thumbs:

Great minds....


Don Juan has been on the IRL for most of the season so it will take a while before he is up to speed. Please forgive his sloppy passes and slow foot movement

Give him 50 posts and he's golden!

:D
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Aaronp18 » Fri May 10, 2013 2:51 pm

donlever wrote:But in this fantasy scenario to pricey prolly eh?


More than likely, he is just a pending UFA so no assets need to be given up is all.

But as you stated there are other options out there, especially if what is brought back in return bolsters the lineup significantly.

If I'm Gillis I start floating a rumour that due to the return the Canucks are no longer shopping Luo but looking to move Schneider. See what the returns are! If the potential is out there to bring back substantial return you move him. Something like this would happen around draft time.

Trade Luo after July 1st, try and grab Smith before moving Luo, if you can't try and grab Bernier for some picks. Hell maybe even offer sheet Bernier, Bob, or Rask!
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri May 10, 2013 3:03 pm

The problem with bold is it's often synonymous with stupid.

And no uk, not worried about Cory. He clearly wasn't healthy. I think we have to give him a playoff where he starts with the ball and gets to run the whole way before we cast any aspersions on his meltdown propensities.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby rockjetty » Fri May 10, 2013 4:13 pm

Interesting idea to dangle both goalies. Lou has to go, but it would be interesting to see what could be had for Cory. Then you think about Philly & it is clear what happens when you think you have a #1 and a lot of guns up front... Canucks still haven't quite shaken the goalie graveyard distinction. Does Lou fall into this category? Has he reinforced the graveyard?

Getting both Lou and Cory out of town in return for younger & tougher skill, I think we'd see some entertaining games, but back to the days where to win games you needed to score 4 or 5, not just 3... With the G/G of the Canucks sitting at 2.54 last season, they would have to add some pretty good players just to win at all.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby tantalum » Fri May 10, 2013 7:10 pm

Rumsfeld wrote:There are only a handful of players on this team that I would consider at this point untradeable.

Kesler, Kassian and Hansen up front. Prospects Jensen and Gaunce as well. The Sedins could be a good second line if we built a new first line around Kesler. We would need at least one big, high-end-talented winger for him.

On the blue line, I wouldn't move Garrison, Hamhuis, Tanev or Corrado. I would move Edler only if we are replacing him somehow with a true #1.

Schneider is totally untradeable IMO. Lack should be kept around for at least another season as well.



I know people are down on the Sedins but come on...second line? They were 20th and overall scoring. Henrik was 5 points from top 10 scoring. Sure they'd make a good second line because they already make a very good first line. Yeesh.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Fri May 10, 2013 7:17 pm

tantalum wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:There are only a handful of players on this team that I would consider at this point untradeable.

Kesler, Kassian and Hansen up front. Prospects Jensen and Gaunce as well. The Sedins could be a good second line if we built a new first line around Kesler. We would need at least one big, high-end-talented winger for him.

On the blue line, I wouldn't move Garrison, Hamhuis, Tanev or Corrado. I would move Edler only if we are replacing him somehow with a true #1.

Schneider is totally untradeable IMO. Lack should be kept around for at least another season as well.



I know people are down on the Sedins but come on...second line? They were 20th and overall scoring. Henrik was 5 points from top 10 scoring. Sure they'd make a good second line because they already make a very good first line. Yeesh.


I hope they're on the second line in 2-3 years. It will mean Gillis... or someone is doing their job and developed/drafted/signed the right guys to take over.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby tantalum » Fri May 10, 2013 7:18 pm

donlever wrote:
tantalum wrote: You have to be sure you get a #1 though that is equivalent or better and damn that's a tough task.


Really, do we really tho tant?

Niemi won a Cup.

Ward won a Cup.

Khabibulin won a Cup.

Osgood more than one.

Hell, Fleury won a Cup.

Emery, Kolzig, the Boucher whoever that guy is tandem in Philly went to a Final.

One step down guys can get it down as well no?


You have a choice Don....a consistent year to year guy where you know what you get or a guy who can catch lightening in a bottle. I'm of the opinion that every NHL goaltender can catch lightening in a bottle so yes a step down guy is certainly possible. I'm not sure I design a team around hoping for that though.

And when you look at it those step down guys are taking up 4-5.5 mil cap hits so they aren't exactly a steal of a deal.


Now if I had my druthers and I knew Luongo would in fact be happy playing out his years in Vancouver (I don't but let's pretend), I trade Schneider. I believe Schneider can be better but Luongo isn't a significant step down and given the much better return Schneider would return it would move the team forward faster.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby tantalum » Fri May 10, 2013 7:19 pm

Eddy Punch Clock wrote:
tantalum wrote:
Rumsfeld wrote:There are only a handful of players on this team that I would consider at this point untradeable.

Kesler, Kassian and Hansen up front. Prospects Jensen and Gaunce as well. The Sedins could be a good second line if we built a new first line around Kesler. We would need at least one big, high-end-talented winger for him.

On the blue line, I wouldn't move Garrison, Hamhuis, Tanev or Corrado. I would move Edler only if we are replacing him somehow with a true #1.

Schneider is totally untradeable IMO. Lack should be kept around for at least another season as well.



I know people are down on the Sedins but come on...second line? They were 20th and overall scoring. Henrik was 5 points from top 10 scoring. Sure they'd make a good second line because they already make a very good first line. Yeesh.


I hope they're on the second line in 2-3 years. It will mean Gillis... or someone is doing their job and developed/drafted/signed the right guys to take over.



Sure a few years from now I get but it isn't going to be next year which is what I think the poster was meaning, because in that few years yI'm not sure you want to building around a 31 year Kesler either. Just bring in talent.

If the Blues choke the series away against the Kings I can't help but feel they will be making core changes. If so there could be some interesting names on the market.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 11, 2013 10:45 am

Elliott Freidman through this out yesterday on 1040 the idea of trading both Schneider and Luongo, saying there are rumblings out there suggesting that this could happen. The kind of scenario that this might happen would be like trading Luongo for Price and then trading Schneider for a good young player. Or Luongo for Ward etc. Who knows, but I did find it interesting that Freidman suggested it.

Personally, the so-called ELITE FRANCHISE GOALIE with the massive contract is not condusive to the new NHL. The flavor of the day is a real top notch defense core with size and skill and the collapsing around the net, smother the crease style defensive system is now the ingredient for success so it seems. It's this system that are making average goalies look great, hello Brobovsky, all pointing to another great miscalculation by our dear ole GM there.

Like the great Ken Holland always says, "I would never invest that much into a goalie."
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Meds » Sat May 11, 2013 12:43 pm

When it comes to goaltending in (most) playoff series, you need it to be elite.

That being said, it doesn't have to be an "elite goalie".

Look at the goaltending in the different series in the first round this year.

Nabokov vs Fleury. Both have been total sieves. The Pens should have bounced New York in 5 at the most. Vokoun replaced MAF and started off with a shutout.

Anderson vs Price. Anderson stood on his head at times, Price played like a noodle strainer at times. Ottawa moved on in 5.

Rask vs Reimer. This is a crap shoot. Rask has been incredible in some moments, Reimer has faced a pile of shots, but many the goals that have beat him have very questionable.

Lundqvist vs Holtby. Here you have an elite goaltender up against a hotshot, streaky youngster. The youngster is getting it done. Holtby has been brilliant for the last month in Washington. Lundqvist has let in some real weak goals this series.

Quick vs Elliot. Quick looked shaky on a few early on. Then he rallied and gave LA the time it needed to build up a head of steam. Elliot let in some bad goals.

Harding vs Anderson. Harding played elite hockey for the first few games and was the only reason that the Wild were even around for game 5. Anderson was his equal at the other game in all but game 3. Once Harding came back down to earth the Wild were toast.

Hiller vs Howard. I haven't paid attention to this series.
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Re: How about this then....

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sat May 11, 2013 1:09 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Personally, the so-called ELITE FRANCHISE GOALIE with the massive contract is not condusive to the new NHL. The flavor of the day is a real top notch defense core with size and skill and the collapsing around the net, smother the crease style defensive system is now the ingredient for success so it seems. It's this system that are making average goalies look great, hello Brobovsky, all pointing to another great miscalculation by our dear ole GM there.

Like the great Ken Holland always says, "I would never invest that much into a goalie."


While I tend to agree, it really depends on the player/team and how they are built. There's more than one way to skin a cat. A team like LA plays a sound defensive game, but their "D" is rather top-heavy (Doughty and then...) and is helped by the forwards and having a superstar goalie. Teams like the NYR rely on Lundqvist to steal them games. Teams like Chicago rely on Crawfod/Emery to NOT LOSE them games.

It's also worth noting that Holland is going to be paying Howard Luongo money starting next season...

I think the Canucks have goalies that are capable of stealing them games. Their far bigger problem is a lack of scoring up front and a defense that is more suited to offense then their own-zone play. If Gillis shifts the focus to more goal scoring up front, and more stability in the D's own-zone play, I think that will go a long way to getting us back to where we need to be.

I don't advocate trading both goalies. Pick one, give them the reins and use the assets the other one brings back to improve the team elsewhere. The goalie controversy has to stop, and this season was a wasted one partly because of it.
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