Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Thu May 09, 2013 8:06 am

donlever wrote:
This is possibly the 50th time I've posted this information and Gillis gets so little credit for the behind the scenes, positive, productive things he has brought to the team (generally speaking...not specific to anything you have said) so it strikes a bit of a nerve is all.

Carry on.


Which is why he would make a better GM.

His player evaluation and team building philosophy leaves a lot to be desired.

AV getting fired can't happen soon enough. It's gonna be interesting to finally see Gillis on the hit seat
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Thu May 09, 2013 8:10 am

mathonwy wrote:I'm getting the feeling that the majority are willing to give Gillis a chance to right the ship.

My question is, why? What has he done to deserve this "second" chance? Since the loss in game 7, nothing that he's done has panned out and now after the most embarrassing showing the Canucks have ever had in the NHL playoffs, we give him one last chance to manage what is arguably our most important off season ever?

Kesler, Sedins, Luongo, Edler, Burrows, Lappy and Ballard. Do we trust GMMG to get the most out of these extremely valuable assets? Based on what he's done so far, I dunno...

I say nuke the GM and the coach and bring in fresh blood. This way we start from scratch and everything and everyone is on the table. This is a results oriented business and IMO, both get an F grade since our loss in game 7.


Excellent Post!!
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Thu May 09, 2013 8:17 am

FAN wrote:
mathonwy wrote:I'm getting the feeling that the majority are willing to give Gillis a chance to right the ship.

My question is, why? What has he done to deserve this "second" chance? Since the loss in game 7, nothing that he's done has panned out and now after the most embarrassing showing the Canucks have ever had in the NHL playoffs, we give him one last chance to manage what is arguably our most important off season ever?


The Canucks have won the NW division every year since Gillis has been GM. That's a record of success. For comparison's sake, only 5 teams have longer active streaks of making the playoffs. To be fair, GMs generally get a chance to chance coaches before they get fired. And GMs who get fired for making the playoffs but losing in the first round are few and far between. I mean Doug Wilson still has a job. So does George McPhee. There are exceptions of course, Dale Tallon got fired despite his team making the playoffs the previous year and John Muckler got fired after his team went to the Cup finals. As for moves that have panned out since the game 7 loss. I think Jason Garrison is a moved that has panned out so far for the team. Signed this past offseason, Garrison has arguably been the Canucks best defenseman this season.

I'm as frustrated as you are and I'm definitely worried about the Canucks' immediate future. The Canucks need to get under the cap for next season and the Canucks are getting really poor return from the contracts of Luongo, Booth, and Ballard. But I still have faith in Gillis. His ability to attract players to Vancouver have come as advertised. The Canucks have had few problems keeping guys Gillis wanted to keep and the Canucks have seemingly been finalists for many desired free agents. The hiring of Dave Gagner has helped the Canucks to acquire guys like Tanev and Lain. While there have been misses, easy signings like Hamhuis and Garrison have worked out well for the Canucks. Even guys Gillis went hard after but failed to land haven't been bullets that Gillis dodged. Gillis' three year $7.5M to Backes who was coming off a 13g 31 point season would have been gold, much better than Nonis' offer of guaranteed playing time and max bonuses for Brunnstrom.

As for the draft, Gillis's draft record is looking better. It doesn't appear that he has bombed any of his first round picks and Gillis might have picked some late round gems (Corrado is one). Even the pick Gillis traded for Ballard, Gillis wanted Tinordi or Bennett, both of whom would have been solid picks. As I mentioned in another thread, I feel Gillis does have the right idea on what it takes to win in today's NHL, it's just that he failed to bolster the team's forward corps. Luongo to Toronto would have likely landed Bozak and Shane Doan could have been a difference maker. We saw that after the Cup final, Gillis saw that the league was once again moving away from speed and skill and he immediately started going after size. The switch was immediate and so far the league hasn't gone back to focusing on speed and skill. It's no coincidence that Gillis acquired Kassian and Booth and drafted Jensen and Guance. The trades and draft picks haven't paid dividends yet but they were attempts to set the team up to win both in the present and for the future. So however much Gillis has failed to improve the hockey club, Gillis is certainly aware of what this team needs to compete for the Cup.


Fan

We have been ousted of the first round quite handedly the last two playoffs, who cares about division titles and president trophies. This team is stale, boring as hell, it's showing in the growing lack of interest for this current product we have on ice all because of a myriad of bad executive decisions on a lot of fronts. Gillis is not the right man for the gig if this city ever wants to win the Stanley cup!
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu May 09, 2013 8:18 am

Lancer wrote:It's almost like you pray for them to fail next season too... :eh:

Just because of your hate on for Gillis?

Really????

Would it hurt you that bad to see them win a Cup with Gillis as GM??? :look:



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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby SKYO » Thu May 09, 2013 8:19 am

Maybe we can tell MG's future just by how he talks in this presser today.

As I wouldn't mind a whole new regime change, but I just can't see it happening.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Thu May 09, 2013 8:25 am

We will learn soon enough after AV is gone if Gillis has the balls to make bold changes that this team obviously needs or if he continues with useless tinkerings like the Flames have been doing for the last decade, the ever so sad attempt at trying to stay competitive whe dwindling to mediocrity and beyond. This how I feel Gillis will manage this team here on forward. The player agent over values his players, pays them too much 'and for that is not capable of making bold moves. I fully expect the same core group at the start of next season
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ukcanuck » Thu May 09, 2013 9:24 am

This is what leaf fans sound like. Since 67 they have walked more GMs and coaches off the plank than I can remember.
We want success and we want it now and I'm pretty sure there is a new Moses out there somewhere cause this one sucks...

Its like an entitlement. This is a great Canadian city and we have a great hockey team and only a Stanley cup will suffice and until we get one... Heads are gonna roll baby.

This incarnation of the Canucks has done better than any in the past by a country mile. They have dominated and brought to the edge, so now were gonna blow the whole thing up !? The winningest coach in club history, the winningest GM in history.

Maybe somebody such take a step back and take a deep breath. Its definitely time to question whether its the right coaching staff anymore but starting from scratch all over again? Don't make sense ..
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby SKYO » Thu May 09, 2013 9:49 am

ukcanuck wrote:Maybe somebody such take a step back and take a deep breath. Its definitely time to question whether its the right coaching staff anymore but starting from scratch all over again? Don't make sense ..


It's why I think MG will get a chance to stay and try to put together the proper mix of players to succeed in the playoffs like 2011, with his obligatory one head coaching change most GM's get a chance to do.

But you have to agree these last two seasons leave a lot to be desired, and MG's moves haven't been as awesome as the Ehrhoff/Lap/Higgins acquisitions. like the Ballard blowup and Booth has never really had a chance to play too much as of yet but even still while playing he wasn't really a difference maker. I believe the win/loss record wasn't affected with him in or out of the lineup.

The Luongo fiasco was a stress disaster all season, it probably took away from the team spirit or energy or something its hard to explain, but it didn't help the team at all....
But hopefully MG's patience pays off with RL and we get something of value to help our team win in the foreseeable future, I recall people saying we better keep Luongo in case Schneider gets injured for a long playoff run! wtf Schneider was prob' playing at 60-70% health and MG/AV went with him anyway. :mad:

But I do hope to see MG swing for the fences and go beyond his comfort zone with these little moves he likes, as HW keeps saying, he doesn't like to move any assets no matter how crappy the player is.

This core is a good one, but the core players need a bit of a shakeup, not a major overhaul but we need that #1 point producing machine to help Kesler.

Our defense has way too many left side dmen, no true QB dman, not enough snarl/size.

Our center depth is in shambles after Manny had that unfortunate accident.

These are the things MG needs to remedy to right the ship and I think the aquamen will give him a couple of years to do that.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby mathonwy » Thu May 09, 2013 11:02 am

FAN wrote:
mathonwy wrote:I'm getting the feeling that the majority are willing to give Gillis a chance to right the ship.

My question is, why? What has he done to deserve this "second" chance? Since the loss in game 7, nothing that he's done has panned out and now after the most embarrassing showing the Canucks have ever had in the NHL playoffs, we give him one last chance to manage what is arguably our most important off season ever?


The Canucks have won the NW division every year since Gillis has been GM. That's a record of success. ...



You make pretty good points FAN and I have to say that everything hinges upon Aquaman's mind set.

There is no doubt that during his tenure, GMMG's moves have produced a consistently excellent product on the ice that has sold many tickets and created a thriving market in local merchandising (and subsequently) put lots of money in Aquaman's pocket. These past years we've seen the golden age of Canuck hockey and we've won pretty much every trophy except, obviously, the one that counts the most. However, from an entertainment point of view, if you put money down to see a game, there was a very good probability that you would see a good game resulting in a win. Corporate sponsors love this shit and really don't give a crap whether or not we win the SC or not.

On the other hand, the biased rabid Canuck hockey fan that was fooled into putting all of our hopes and dreams in believing that we'd have a SC parade in the near future, is completely and utterly disillusioned. Today, I don't give a shit about regular season success anymore. President's trophy? Who gives a shit. #1 PP% in the regular season? Yawn. And now two straight post-seasons where teams from California who we've owned during our golden age have handed our lunch to us in a relatively easy fashion. San Jose of all teams. Who has had same core in what seems like forever and had owned us before our golden age begun, bounces us in 4. It's incredibly depressing to see your team that you (and everyone else) fancied as a Detroit Red Wing type of team, get whipped like a puppy by a team like San Jose.

I guess what I'm saying is my emotional piggy bank is empty for the Canucks and I know that this is true for a lot of my rabid Canuck fan friends. This past regular season I barely watched 20 games and I wasn't even paying all that close attention to the games when I WAS watching. From a business perspective, I can't see GMMG getting canned. He's got too much success underneath his belt already and deserves one last chance to fix this cluster of a team. From a fan perspective, Luongo, Ballard, Hodgson, Ehrhoff, Roy, Booth, two first round exits.... I dunno.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Spock » Thu May 09, 2013 11:08 am

ukcanuck wrote:This is what leaf fans sound like. Since 67 they have walked more GMs and coaches off the plank than I can remember.
We want success and we want it now and I'm pretty sure there is a new Moses out there somewhere cause this one sucks...

Its like an entitlement. This is a great Canadian city and we have a great hockey team and only a Stanley cup will suffice and until we get one... Heads are gonna roll baby.

This incarnation of the Canucks has done better than any in the past by a country mile. They have dominated and brought to the edge, so now were gonna blow the whole thing up !? The winningest coach in club history, the winningest GM in history.

Maybe somebody such take a step back and take a deep breath. Its definitely time to question whether its the right coaching staff anymore but starting from scratch all over again? Don't make sense ..



If you watched the games - the team played a complete game only 6 or 7 out of the 48. That can only be attributed to the coach.

As for Gillis - jury is still out. He took over an organization that had the pieces in place already. He can't take credit for that.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Tciso » Thu May 09, 2013 12:12 pm

Spock wrote:If you watched the games - the team played a complete game only 6 or 7 out of the 48. That can only be attributed to the coach.

As for Gillis - jury is still out. He took over an organization that had the pieces in place already. He can't take credit for that.


We did pretty well for a $54 million payroll. What I mean is that we had $16 million in payroll on the bench or injured with Malholtra, Booth, Ballard and Lu. GMMG needs to address these holes. Malholtra is off the books. Booth n Ballard might be ok under a new coach, if healthy. Lu or Schneids need to go just for cap room.

Either way, our new coach needs to coach a grittier system than we have had, and needs to address our power play.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ukcanuck » Thu May 09, 2013 12:38 pm

Spock wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:This is what leaf fans sound like. Since 67 they have walked more GMs and coaches off the plank than I can remember.
We want success and we want it now and I'm pretty sure there is a new Moses out there somewhere cause this one sucks...

Its like an entitlement. This is a great Canadian city and we have a great hockey team and only a Stanley cup will suffice and until we get one... Heads are gonna roll baby.

This incarnation of the Canucks has done better than any in the past by a country mile. They have dominated and brought to the edge, so now were gonna blow the whole thing up !? The winningest coach in club history, the winningest GM in history.

Maybe somebody such take a step back and take a deep breath. Its definitely time to question whether its the right coaching staff anymore but starting from scratch all over again? Don't make sense ..



If you watched the games - the team played a complete game only 6 or 7 out of the 48. That can only be attributed to the coach.

As for Gillis - jury is still out. He took over an organization that had the pieces in place already. He can't take credit for that.



Spock!!! :)


I was reacting to the lets burn it to the ground element...

I'm in the its probably time to change the coaching staff camp but I just want to look before we jump...
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu May 09, 2013 7:59 pm

Grapes weighs in on the Vancouver situation. Starts around 4:35 of vid.

Royaldude will luv it. If DN is cheezeburgler nonis, then MG is Mike No "Guts" Gillis. :lol:

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby rockjetty » Thu May 09, 2013 8:28 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:Grapes weighs in on the Vancouver situation. Starts around 4:35 of vid.

Royaldude will luv it. If DN is cheezeburgler nonis, then MG is Mike No "Guts" Gillis. :lol:



Grapes is right about the goalie situation. One of them needed to be traded to start the year, but Luo also wanted out. GMMG can't really trade Schneider to keep a disgruntled Lou that doesn't want to be here, or eventually we'd have no #1.

If Cherry watched many Canucks games this year, I don't think he'd think AV did a great job keeping the team motivated and hungry for the post-season.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Thu May 09, 2013 8:51 pm

rockjetty wrote:Grapes is right about the goalie situation. One of them needed to be traded to start the year, but Luo also wanted out. GMMG can't really trade Schneider to keep a disgruntled Lou that doesn't want to be here, or eventually we'd have no #1.

If Cherry watched many Canucks games this year, I don't think he'd think AV did a great job keeping the team motivated and hungry for the post-season.


Yeah, but why did Lou want out? Cuz Schneids was taking over and he was becoming the backup. Well, official story anyways. *hehe* No more Schneids = Lou is top dog again. Remember, he's under contract to the canucks. It sucked for us that we're paying him a fat contract and he has a no trade clause, so it's really hard to move him. So, if we decide we can't move him, then we'll just let him be our #1 again. It may suck for his personal life, but he's getting his $$$ and he's playing, so he can't complain. Technically, we can bury him the minors if we had to (if no on grabs him off waivers). *hehe.

Yeah, good point about Grapes on AV. Grapes being a former coach, he has probably been in similar situations and may be a little biased. He's just defending guys like himself or just defending his guy. But then again, maybe being a former coach, he sees the brilliant work that AV is doing that we as fans do not notice. *hehe*
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