Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Tiger » Sat May 04, 2013 8:39 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:I'll weigh in here.

1) MG knew, admitted as much, that Maholtra was in all likelihood done. Told him at the end of last year he thought he was done but Maholtra persuaded him to give him a short window this season to prove he could improve enough to ease MGs concerns. MG said he did that out of respect for Maholtra but knew in his heart Manny was done. Epic fail on MG.

2) MG knew Kesler would be out long term.

3) MG MAY have had a chance to move luongo in the early summer and MAY have over valued his return.

4) Ballard, for whatever reasons, has been a bust. Yet no attempt made to trade him, waive him or buy him out when the NHL allowed one early amnesty buyout this year (yes it would count on this year's cap only)

MG allowed us to start the season very weak at centre when he knew how much we were hurting at that position. Several centres have been put on waivers this year but MG does not put a claim in for any of them. Why? One reason was certainly cap concerns. But what did he do in the off season to manage those? Why don't he waive a player or two to try and clear them off the roster.


MG has a hard time in letting assets go. He seems to fail to recognize that sometimes you get nothing back but cap and roster spaces. But he lets FA's walk. If he had traded Ballard, waived Ballard done anything he could have afforded to bring Salo back for 2 years. I felt at the time he was the anchor, the glue that stabilized our back end. We always looked calmer when he was in the line up and I think 2 more years was worth the risk.


MG goes out and gets Roy. AV doesn't seem to know where he wants to play him. He started great with Higgins and Hansen but when Kesler gets back the line juggling starts. AV does not know how to put players in a position to win. He sticks to tried and tried again line ups and does not show he knows how to integrate younger players into the line up. We have seen too many times players come over in trades get lost in our system. Why?

We need a big over haul in the off season. Not talking a rebuild but an overhaul. We lost our swagger and identity when we lost game seven and this current group is not going to get it done. I'd rather make the moves this off season and see us finish middle of the pack in the new conference then see us go down this slow painful death to aging out and having to rebuild.


+1 Great post ")
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 05, 2013 9:58 am

Hockey Widow wrote:

MG goes out and gets Roy. AV doesn't seem to know where he wants to play him. He started great with Higgins and Hansen but when Kesler gets back the line juggling starts. AV does not know how to put players in a position to win. He sticks to tried and tried again line ups and does not show he knows how to integrate younger players into the line up. We have seen too many times players come over in trades get lost in our system. Why?



The Canucks are struggling to score so AV moved Roy with Kesler to try to create some scoring. Roy is in the top 5 of offensive talent on this team, I can see his point in trying to create a 2nd line with some scoring threat. You also have to factor in the line matching that's going on as well, the smallish Roy matching up with bigger centers, I think AV is trying to avoid that.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 05, 2013 10:07 am

Your Mike Gillis Vancouver Canucks All Star Team

'Outside of draft picks

Sturm---Roy----Torres (who was subsequently let go)
Booth---Sundin (past his prime)---Higgins
Lapierre---Ebbett---Wellwood
Weise---Malhotra----Sestito
Zack Bernier
Steve Kassian

Hamhuis---Garrison
O'Brien---Ehrhoff (who he subsequently let go)
Ballard---Tanev
Barker
Last edited by RoyalDude on Sun May 05, 2013 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby the Dogsalmon » Sun May 05, 2013 10:18 am

RoyalDude wrote:Your Mike Gillis Vancouver Canucks All Star Team

'Outside of draft picks

Sturm---Roy----Torres (who was subsequently let go)
Booth---Sundin (past his prime)---Higgins
Lapierre---Ebbett---Wellwood
Weise---Malhotra----Sestito
Bernier

Hamhuis---Garrison
O'Brien---Ehrhoff (who he subsequently let go)
Ballard---Tanev
Barker




do we get a pink ribbon for participating? Everyone gets a ribbon...
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 05, 2013 11:10 am

the Dogsalmon wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Your Mike Gillis Vancouver Canucks All Star Team

'Outside of draft picks

Sturm---Roy----Torres (who was subsequently let go)
Booth---Sundin (past his prime)---Higgins
Lapierre---Ebbett---Wellwood
Weise---Malhotra----Sestito
Bernier

Hamhuis---Garrison
O'Brien---Ehrhoff (who he subsequently let go)
Ballard---Tanev
Barker




do we get a pink ribbon for participating? Everyone gets a ribbon...


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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby the Dogsalmon » Sun May 05, 2013 11:14 am

RoyalDude wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Your Mike Gillis Vancouver Canucks All Star Team

'Outside of draft picks

Sturm---Roy----Torres (who was subsequently let go)
Booth---Sundin (past his prime)---Higgins
Lapierre---Ebbett---Wellwood
Weise---Malhotra----Sestito
Bernier

Hamhuis---Garrison
O'Brien---Ehrhoff (who he subsequently let go)
Ballard---Tanev
Barker




do we get a pink ribbon for participating? Everyone gets a ribbon...


You can have anything you like, the world is your oyster.



not with signings like that...
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun May 05, 2013 1:31 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Your Mike Gillis Vancouver Canucks All Star Team

'Outside of draft picks

Sturm---Roy----Torres (who was subsequently let go)
Booth---Sundin (past his prime)---Higgins
Lapierre---Ebbett---Wellwood
Weise---Malhotra----Sestito
Zack Bernier
Steve Kassian

Hamhuis---Garrison
O'Brien---Ehrhoff (who he subsequently let go)
Ballard---Tanev
Barker



And once again no credit for the players he retained by re-signing. Something we all know a GM must be able to do to ice a competitive team.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby the Dogsalmon » Sun May 05, 2013 1:45 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Your Mike Gillis Vancouver Canucks All Star Team

'Outside of draft picks

Sturm---Roy----Torres (who was subsequently let go)
Booth---Sundin (past his prime)---Higgins
Lapierre---Ebbett---Wellwood
Weise---Malhotra----Sestito
Zack Bernier
Steve Kassian

Hamhuis---Garrison
O'Brien---Ehrhoff (who he subsequently let go)
Ballard---Tanev
Barker



And once again no credit for the players he retained by re-signing. Something we all know a GM must be able to do to ice a competitive team.




fair enough...he hasnt been a complete bust...but he is not off the hook if it all goes down the shitter...
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Cornuck » Sun May 05, 2013 1:48 pm

and no GM should be.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun May 05, 2013 5:03 pm

Cornuck wrote:and no GM should be.



If the Canucks go out in round 1 count me in on those that say AV should be gone. MG gets one more year to re-tool and see what he can do. He has assets to trade, contracts to be bought out and FA to sign or let walk.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 05, 2013 5:41 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Your Mike Gillis Vancouver Canucks All Star Team

'Outside of draft picks

Sturm---Roy----Torres (who was subsequently let go)
Booth---Sundin (past his prime)---Higgins
Lapierre---Ebbett---Wellwood
Weise---Malhotra----Sestito
Zack Bernier
Steve Kassian

Hamhuis---Garrison
O'Brien---Ehrhoff (who he subsequently let go)
Ballard---Tanev
Barker



And once again no credit for the players he retained by re-signing. Something we all know a GM must be able to do to ice a competitive team.


Boy, that's a real notch on his belt re-signing current canucks who wanted to work out a contract to stay with the team they love. I hate this lame argument but really, if that is the best people can do to defend Gillis, doesn't say much about his work does it? Like grasping at straws.

We must not forget that there is a serious waning interest in this city regarding the fans and that falls squarely onto the shoulders of the GM of this team. I'm sure Aquaman ain't too happy about it. Gillis job is far from safe if this team gets knocked again in the first round. AV getting fired is nowhere near the magic bullet you all is hoping for. No new coach coming in here is gonna make a difference, it will just be a revolving door of coaches like we see in Edmonton. The problem? It's the GM.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Knucklehead » Sun May 05, 2013 6:13 pm

A chronology of failure, previous canucks GM's:

19070 - 1973 Norman "Bud" Poile: lost the spin of the wheel and destroyed Dale Talon by trying to make him into a forward.

1973 - 1974 Lary Coe: who?

1974 - 1976 Phil Malony: I don't remember much about Phil good or bad.

1977 -1981 Jake frigging Milford: How the hell do you trade Derlago and Vaive for scraps? I get it that Derlago skated around checking out the puck bunnies in the stands most of the night, but god dammit the 2 or 3 minutes he showed up every night he was dominant! And what can you say about giving up on Rick Vaive a year or two after drafting him.

This was the stupidest trade in Canucks history until:

1982 - 1986 Harry Neale: Cam Neely and a 1st rd pick, 3rd overall, for Barry, "brocken wing ,Pederson what else needs to be said!

1985 - 1987 Jake Gordon: Who and what did he do?

1987 - 1998 Pat Quin: My god what to say, Linden, Bure, Mogilny, Naslund all the great things he did. But Keenan, Messier. screwing up the Gretzuy deal in the midle of the night. Screwing over Bure so he demanded a trade my god how does our greatest GM become our worst ever.

It boggles the mind!

1998 - 2004 Brian Burke: The blow-hard that walked like a man what did he ever do for the team?

Oh yes, he orchestrated the deal that got us the Sedins, that was some fine work I'll give him that!

2004 - 2008 Dave Nonis: Fixed the goally problem thtr Burkie refused to address during his tenure as GM.

Gave out 2nd round picks for borderline players on the way out of the league,

2008 - 200?? Mike Gillis: the jury is out, he robbed a desperate SJ for Ehrhoff then let him walk. Signed some very good players, both RFA and UFA to discounts.

Traded assets for Ballard, that has not worked out and acquired Booth for nothing but we really got nothing in return mainly due to injuries in this case.

Anybody saying Gillis is the worst GM in Canucks history knows nothing of history!

And it's like my grade ten history instructor told me: "Those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it"

Crap it was even more boring the next year!
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Arachnid » Sun May 05, 2013 7:21 pm

Knucklehead wrote:A chronology of failure, previous canucks GM's:

19070 - 1973 Norman "Bud" Poile: lost the spin of the wheel and destroyed Dale Talon by trying to make him into a forward.

1973 - 1974 Lary Coe: who?

1974 - 1976 Phil Malony: I don't remember much about Phil good or bad.

1977 -1981 Jake frigging Milford: How the hell do you trade Derlago and Vaive for scraps? I get it that Derlago skated around checking out the puck bunnies in the stands most of the night, but god dammit the 2 or 3 minutes he showed up every night he was dominant! And what can you say about giving up on Rick Vaive a year or two after drafting him.

This was the stupidest trade in Canucks history until:

1982 - 1986 Harry Neale: Cam Neely and a 1st rd pick, 3rd overall, for Barry, "brocken wing ,Pederson what else needs to be said!

1985 - 1987 Jake Gordon: Who and what did he do?

1987 - 1998 Pat Quin: My god what to say, Linden, Bure, Mogilny, Naslund all the great things he did. But Keenan, Messier. screwing up the Gretzuy deal in the midle of the night. Screwing over Bure so he demanded a trade my god how does our greatest GM become our worst ever.

It boggles the mind!

1998 - 2004 Brian Burke: The blow-hard that walked like a man what did he ever do for the team?

Oh yes, he orchestrated the deal that got us the Sedins, that was some fine work I'll give him that!

2004 - 2008 Dave Nonis: Fixed the goally problem thtr Burkie refused to address during his tenure as GM.

Gave out 2nd round picks for borderline players on the way out of the league,

2008 - 200?? Mike Gillis: the jury is out, he robbed a desperate SJ for Ehrhoff then let him walk. Signed some very good players, both RFA and UFA to discounts.

Traded assets for Ballard, that has not worked out and acquired Booth for nothing but we really got nothing in return mainly due to injuries in this case.

Anybody saying Gillis is the worst GM in Canucks history knows nothing of history!

And it's like my grade ten history instructor told me: "Those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it"

Crap it was even more boring the next year!


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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun May 05, 2013 8:26 pm

Hey Knucklehead you're preaching to a guy who follows the same guy to work every day. I aint happy with MG's efforts thelast 2 years but anyone who says he is the worst GM in the teams history likely gets his food cut up for him.

As an asside AV is a joke. Best thing that come out of a sweep is seeing that fat prick unemployed.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sun May 05, 2013 8:46 pm

Blob, you're seriously brain damaged if you honestly believe that getting rid of AV is the answer to this teams problems.

He will be fired, if we get knocked out of the first round 2nd time in a row, but that will have more to do with Gillis saving his own face than anything else. The bottom line, the product on the ice is in need of a blood transfusion only administered by a GM with a fucking hint of intelligence at player evaluating, drafting and developing and the balls to pull off a bold trade. This group is fucking stale
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