Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Hockey Widow » Fri May 03, 2013 3:16 pm

Tiger wrote:
Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
FAN wrote:Yes but that's partly because Nonis was too chicken to give anybody a contract for longer than two years except for defensemen. He was constantly looking for guys who are willing to sign one year deals. Gillis understood that in a cap world you have to pay players based on expectations. Sometimes that bites him in the ass, but you can't win a Cup by being conservative.



Good dialogue fan. I respect your views, but it looks like we're getting no where with our views on Nonis & Gillis. Agree to disagree. *offers handshake* :)


Been enjoying reading both you and Fans posts .. both interesting and factual seeing things from a different point of view..Good to see 2 guys on this forum disagree without being disagreeable .. no personal attacks !!
My take? Nonis and Gillis were both "new" GM's and some of their mistakes were just that.. Newbie mistakes..
Nonis might be blamed for not tying his core to longer term contracts but Gillis's long term contracts are now biting him in the arse.. Right now , going into the playoffs we have over 12 million in contracts who are not slated to play :(.. Lou, Ballard, Booth, Maholtra.. Not Good ?



Last I checked Lou is our starting goaltender for this series no? Ballard, Booth and Maholtra are all injured no? The only one on that list that is a bust and eating cap space is Ballard, but he is injured right now as well. Fail to see how those long term contracts are biting MG in the ass.

Now talk to me July 1st and I will probably agree with you.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri May 03, 2013 4:09 pm

Tiger wrote:

Nonis might be blamed for not tying his core to longer term contracts but Gillis's long term contracts are now biting him in the arse.. Right now , going into the playoffs we have over 12 million in contracts who are not slated to play :(.. Lou, Ballard, Booth, Maholtra.. Not Good ?



Booth and Malhotra are hurt. Ballard has been shite but he is still one of the 6 best d men on the team. Luongo is playing.Speaking of biting him in the arse, how does your own arse taste ?
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Fri May 03, 2013 10:59 pm

Ok, RoyalDude is gonna love this one.....

As of next season the three biggest playoff no-shows on this team will be the three highest paid players on the team.

Kudos to Gillis for signing those contracts.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby the Dogsalmon » Sat May 04, 2013 8:03 am

Meds wrote:Ok, RoyalDude is gonna love this one.....

As of next season the three biggest playoff no-shows on this team will be the three highest paid players on the team.

Kudos to Gillis for signing those contracts.



GMMG will eventually go down as the worst GM in our history. His legacy will be from Presidents Cup team(a team he inherited) to cellar dwellars(the team he has created). Aquaman should have hired a G.M not a players agent.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 04, 2013 8:16 am

Yes, Booth is injured, but when he was playing he sucked, the teams record with Booth in the line-up compared to with him out is not reflecting very nicely onto Booth. Booth's contract is not money well spent, same goes for Ballard. The contract he gave Luongo, nobody wants. I still don't get why some here think so highly of Gillis. That being said, if this team shits the bed like it seems they will, the pressure really is going to start on Gillis, FINALLY. He can no longer ride the coattails the great core he inherited as they seem be coming to an end. Firing AV, will only give him a short window of breathing room. It's the product on the ice that needs the real fixing and that all falls squarely on his shoulders. I'm looking forward to seeing what Gillis is truly made of.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby SKYO » Sat May 04, 2013 9:36 am

In the perfect world, we can keep MG/Gilman to handle contracts and get a GM who can just concentrate on player transactions/movement.

But for now if we get knocked out 1st round again, AV is on the chopping block.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Reefer2 » Sat May 04, 2013 9:56 am

Here is my prediction for the summer.

MG goes on air and says he has faith in the players and coaching staff, blames injuries (when have we heard that before?) and the shortened season.

MG signs another D man, probably a left handed one.

MG re-ups little pussy Raymond, the man who skates but is nothing but a big cream puff.

MG unloads Luongo for a bag of sticks and a used hockey puck

MG buys out Booth/Ballard.

By game 10 Kassian will be in AV dog house again.

AV will not have a single prospect/young guy on the team because they have not "earned it".

Canuck players talk about how they will do better this year and last year was just a mirage.

Stick boy (KB3) pretends to be tough but turns out to be another cream puff.

Special Ed with his new Billion $$ contract makes Ballard look all world.

Year after year we hear nothng but excuses from Orca Bay, fans forget what really happened and sell out the rinks night after night with one of the highest ticket prices in the league. I for one am glad that the Canucks had trouble selling out for the playoffs, I hope this sends a message to the owners that the fans had enough being screwed like they have been.

10:00 AM in the morning and I feel like drinking already. Was in Japan last week and picked up a bottle of Japanese Whiskey. Not bad and helps the blues go away :drink:

- sigh - it is tough being a Canuck fan :?
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Sat May 04, 2013 10:02 am

I get the sense, Reefer that if we bow out early again. There are going to be some wholesale changes everywhere. MG has no other choice. It just can't end with firing the coach. This group is stale, it's already starting to show with the lack of interest with the fans and media of this city. We need a whole fresh new look on the ice next season at the core group of this team. Not just the standard usual waste of time Mike Gillis 3rd and 4th line tweaking and bottom pairing defenseman. WE HAVE TO START GRADUATING SOME OF THESE KIDS IN THE SYSTEM! Get some youthful enthusiasm in the line-up.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Sat May 04, 2013 10:28 am

RoyalDude wrote:Yes, Booth is injured, but when he was playing he sucked, the teams record with Booth in the line-up compared to with him out is not reflecting very nicely onto Booth. Booth's contract is not money well spent, same goes for Ballard. The contract he gave Luongo, nobody wants. I still don't get why some here think so highly of Gillis. That being said, if this team shits the bed like it seems they will, the pressure really is going to start on Gillis, FINALLY. He can no longer ride the coattails the great core he inherited as they seem be coming to an end. Firing AV, will only give him a short window of breathing room. It's the product on the ice that needs the real fixing and that all falls squarely on his shoulders. I'm looking forward to seeing what Gillis is truly made of.


That is probably the most rational paragraph regarding Booth and Vigneault that I have ever read from you.

I still think you put too much blame on the GM (regardless if it's Gillis, Nonis, Burke, or anyone) for the product on the ice.

I think that the coach needs to be responsible first in a case like this where the players he has possess the skill sets that we know they do. Vigneault has never been able to get anything out of the Sedins other than the cycle game. He has never managed to get them to step it up in playoffs. He has consistently put players in a role where they can't get it done. As GM, Gillis IS responsible for the players he acquired as well as the players he inherited from the previous management regime. He is responsible for addressing failures within the entire organization.

He should have moved Ballard when it became clear that AV didn't have a use for him. I do agree that if he could have moved Luongo for some 1st round picks or a pick and some prospects, then that should have been done at the draft last year. Especially since immediate help is not likely to come back in a return, at least not a return that reflects Luongo's value. But we do know he has been actively trying to move Luongo since the CBA was signed.

When a team like this, that has put up big scoring numbers in the regular season, starts to dwindle and is consistently held off the score sheet, and has only won 2 games all season when giving up 3 goals, at that point you have to ask what is wrong. It can't just be the players. The only way to test that theory is to change up the coaching staff and see if a new approach makes a difference. If it doesn't, then you start moving players and re-tooling.

Here's a bit of irony for ya.....

Around the time he was re-signing the Sedins, Gillis stated that the Canucks would play an up-tempo brand of hockey. The Sedins are among the slowest top line players in the league. They consistently bring the pace down. Puck possession? Sure. But up-tempo? Not them.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Tiger » Sat May 04, 2013 10:38 am

SKYO wrote:In the perfect world, we can keep MG/Gilman to handle contracts and get a GM who can just concentrate on player transactions/movement.

But for now if we get knocked out 1st round again, AV is on the chopping block.


Not so sure we want MG "handling contracts".. Luongo??? Edler??? Letting Salo and Mitchell walk..
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Tiger » Sat May 04, 2013 10:58 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Tiger wrote:

Nonis might be blamed for not tying his core to longer term contracts but Gillis's long term contracts are now biting him in the arse.. Right now , going into the playoffs we have over 12 million in contracts who are not slated to play :(.. Lou, Ballard, Booth, Maholtra.. Not Good ?



Booth and Malhotra are hurt. Ballard has been shite but he is still one of the 6 best d men on the team. Luongo is playing.Speaking of biting him in the arse, how does your own arse taste ?


Dunno Blob.. your the guy thats been biting on my arse most of the time.. so you think that Ballard is worth 4.3 mill as a #6 dman? You don't think MG knew before the season that Maholtra was one eyed? and we didn't have enough cap space to bring in a top rental or 2 to replace Booth ( course not , he didn't cut his losses on Ballard or Maholtra or make a Luongo trade )..Maybe you also think signing Edler for %5 mill and letting Salo walk for nothing was good asset management ? We got too much $$ invested in long term contracts that just are no longer worth the bucks..Thank god the Sedins contract is up next year.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Meds » Sat May 04, 2013 10:58 am

Tiger wrote:
SKYO wrote:In the perfect world, we can keep MG/Gilman to handle contracts and get a GM who can just concentrate on player transactions/movement.

But for now if we get knocked out 1st round again, AV is on the chopping block.


Not so sure we want MG "handling contracts".. Luongo??? Edler??? Letting Salo and Mitchell walk..


I'll never understand why people are so hung up on Gillis letting Salo and Mitchell walk.....

Salo was told that the Canucks wanted him to remain with the organization. He was told that the team needed to be able to ice a team for 82 games, Salo was only going to give them 60(ish) games based on what had been seen over a good number of seasons. Salo decided he didn't want to wait and see what Gillis was going to offer, he went to Tampa for a good contract. The Bolts overpaid. Had we known then that Vigneault was going to keep Ballard in the press box as much as he has, then Gillis should have moved Ballard and kept Sami. Probably would have saved some cap space. At the time Gillis assumed that Ballard was going to bounce back and have a better year. We all thought so too.

Mitchell refused to return to the team after a concussion. He was healthy, but didn't want to come back if he wasn't getting a contract extension. Gillis offered him a 1 year deal to prove his health. Mitchell refused. He won a cup in LA, hasn't played since.

Luongo was a great signing at the time. HIs cap hit seemed high, but the following year other goalies of his ilk were signing deals that paid as much or more.

Edler's new contract is a pure failure. I'll never understand why Gillis offered him that much money after everyone watched him almost single-handed give the LA Kings multiple goals. I have never seen a defenseman hang his goaltender out to dry as often as Edler did in that series and then come back and sign a extension the following year that almost doubles his cap hit. Makes no sense. Usually players get new contracts that reflect what they've done for the team in the playoffs. This didn't.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Tiger » Sat May 04, 2013 11:36 am

Meds said:
Salo was told that the Canucks wanted him to remain with the organization. He was told that the team needed to be able to ice a team for 82 games, Salo was only going to give them 60(ish) games based on what had been seen over a good number of seasons. Salo decided he didn't want to wait and see what Gillis was going to offer, he went to Tampa for a good contract. The Bolts overpaid. Had we known then that Vigneault was going to keep Ballard in the press box as much as he has, then Gillis should have moved Ballard and kept Sami. Probably would have saved some cap space. At the time Gillis assumed that Ballard was going to bounce back and have a better year. We all thought so too.


1.. I heard that Salo was offered a 1 year only contract at about 2 mill.. He is now paid a bit over 3 mill on a 2 year with the Bolts and is a top dman with them .. Overpaid ??
Ballard has played for 3 years as a Canuck and is every bit as "fragile" as Salo except he hasn't got the talent..
After playing 2 years in 112 games don't you think Gillis and AV knew his value.. Maybe you thought he was going to have a "bounce back year".. but there was no reason for Gillis or anyone to assume that..
2... Ok so maybe management decided not to re up Mitchell or Salo at 3 to 4 million.. why didn't they trade them off at trade deadline? we got nothing for them .. a couple draft picks or a prospect would have been nice :)..
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Hockey Widow » Sat May 04, 2013 2:08 pm

I'll weigh in here.

1) MG knew, admitted as much, that Maholtra was in all likelihood done. Told him at the end of last year he thought he was done but Maholtra persuaded him to give him a short window this season to prove he could improve enough to ease MGs concerns. MG said he did that out of respect for Maholtra but knew in his heart Manny was done. Epic fail on MG.

2) MG knew Kesler would be out long term.

3) MG MAY have had a chance to move luongo in the early summer and MAY have over valued his return.

4) Ballard, for whatever reasons, has been a bust. Yet no attempt made to trade him, waive him or buy him out when the NHL allowed one early amnesty buyout this year (yes it would count on this year's cap only)

MG allowed us to start the season very weak at centre when he knew how much we were hurting at that position. Several centres have been put on waivers this year but MG does not put a claim in for any of them. Why? One reason was certainly cap concerns. But what did he do in the off season to manage those? Why don't he waive a player or two to try and clear them off the roster.


MG has a hard time in letting assets go. He seems to fail to recognize that sometimes you get nothing back but cap and roster spaces. But he lets FA's walk. If he had traded Ballard, waived Ballard done anything he could have afforded to bring Salo back for 2 years. I felt at the time he was the anchor, the glue that stabilized our back end. We always looked calmer when he was in the line up and I think 2 more years was worth the risk.


MG goes out and gets Roy. AV doesn't seem to know where he wants to play him. He started great with Higgins and Hansen but when Kesler gets back the line juggling starts. AV does not know how to put players in a position to win. He sticks to tried and tried again line ups and does not show he knows how to integrate younger players into the line up. We have seen too many times players come over in trades get lost in our system. Why?

We need a big over haul in the off season. Not talking a rebuild but an overhaul. We lost our swagger and identity when we lost game seven and this current group is not going to get it done. I'd rather make the moves this off season and see us finish middle of the pack in the new conference then see us go down this slow painful death to aging out and having to rebuild.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Sat May 04, 2013 7:49 pm

Tiger wrote: Been enjoying reading both you and Fans posts .. both interesting and factual seeing things from a different point of view..Good to see 2 guys on this forum disagree without being disagreeable .. no personal attacks !!
My take? Nonis and Gillis were both "new" GM's and some of their mistakes were just that.. Newbie mistakes..
Nonis might be blamed for not tying his core to longer term contracts but Gillis's long term contracts are now biting him in the arse.. Right now , going into the playoffs we have over 12 million in contracts who are not slated to play :(.. Lou, Ballard, Booth, Maholtra.. Not Good ?


Thanx Tiger. I think u make a good point. Both DN and MG definitely made some noobie mistakes. :lol:
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