Election Memorial Jr.

The primary goal of this site is to provide mature, meaningful discussion about the Vancouver Canucks. However, we all need a break some time so this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest! This forum is named after poster Creeper, who passed away in July of 2011 and was a long time member of the Canucks message board community.

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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Reefer2 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:04 am

ukcanuck wrote:So its drunks wasting paramedics, nurses, and doctors time that is driving the health bill through the roof?
And here I thought it was all the sick people with nerve to need medical attention that was the problem...

Maybe we should just send these annoying sickos down to the east side for fix instead... Then we could toss them in jail and solve two problems at the same time. No one gives a fuck about a convict's health and we can employ more guards and build more prisons. Drive down the unemployment lines...

Hey we can get rid of that bull shit EI too... Oh wait that's federal Isnt it? Probably have to vote for Harper again so he can make that gravy train disappear...


I would hazard a guess that Med only provided 1 example of abuse, just sit in emergency for a night and see what is there.
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Topper » Thu May 02, 2013 11:41 am

Politician speech at it's best

“I’ve never said we want a review on fracking. What I have said is we want to make sure that we’re always reviewing how well we’re doing things to make sure we’re doing it as well as we possibly can and find ways to do it better,” she told reporters in Kamloops.


http://www.vancouversun.com/news/bc-election/Liberal+candidate+calls+review+fracking/8327845/story.html

Fracking in deep wells is a proven safe procedure. Shallow wells is another matter.
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby ukcanuck » Thu May 02, 2013 12:10 pm

Reefer2 wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:So its drunks wasting paramedics, nurses, and doctors time that is driving the health bill through the roof?
And here I thought it was all the sick people with nerve to need medical attention that was the problem...

Maybe we should just send these annoying sickos down to the east side for fix instead... Then we could toss them in jail and solve two problems at the same time. No one gives a fuck about a convict's health and we can employ more guards and build more prisons. Drive down the unemployment lines...

Hey we can get rid of that bull shit EI too... Oh wait that's federal Isnt it? Probably have to vote for Harper again so he can make that gravy train disappear...


I would hazard a guess that Med only provided 1 example of abuse, just sit in emergency for a night and see what is there.


Maybe both you and Meds should probably check the definition of Alcoholism as an accepted medical condition and known killer. Its fucked up that anyone would consider responding to someone suffering from a disease and needing help (no matter how many times in a night) as an abuse of the system.

News flash its the health care system and its there to provide health care for those that who need it. Its not for you or a ambulance driver with a first aid kit to determine who is sick, whether they deserve treatment or if they are not really sick and need a moment on the naughty step.

Same thing with your comment about the emergency, its there for people who feel they need help, its not for you or me to decide whether some one is really hurt or not. People who go to emergency are scared and in pain and don't always make the right decisions.

but hey if you want to save taxes move to the united emirates or Bahrain , they don't have any taxes and precious little sympathy if you can't pay for it.

They deal with alcoholics in a way you probably would applaud too...
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Meds » Thu May 02, 2013 5:44 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:So its drunks wasting paramedics, nurses, and doctors time that is driving the health bill through the roof?
And here I thought it was all the sick people with nerve to need medical attention that was the problem...

Maybe we should just send these annoying sickos down to the east side for fix instead... Then we could toss them in jail and solve two problems at the same time. No one gives a fuck about a convict's health and we can employ more guards and build more prisons. Drive down the unemployment lines...

Hey we can get rid of that bull shit EI too... Oh wait that's federal Isnt it? Probably have to vote for Harper again so he can make that gravy train disappear...


I would hazard a guess that Med only provided 1 example of abuse, just sit in emergency for a night and see what is there.


Maybe both you and Meds should probably check the definition of Alcoholism as an accepted medical condition and known killer. Its fucked up that anyone would consider responding to someone suffering from a disease and needing help (no matter how many times in a night) as an abuse of the system.

News flash its the health care system and its there to provide health care for those that who need it. Its not for you or a ambulance driver with a first aid kit to determine who is sick, whether they deserve treatment or if they are not really sick and need a moment on the naughty step.

Same thing with your comment about the emergency, its there for people who feel they need help, its not for you or me to decide whether some one is really hurt or not. People who go to emergency are scared and in pain and don't always make the right decisions.

but hey if you want to save taxes move to the united emirates or Bahrain , they don't have any taxes and precious little sympathy if you can't pay for it.

They deal with alcoholics in a way you probably would applaud too...


You're a complete ass hat uk. A total fucking dipshit. I'm gonna reply to this and explain some very simple concepts to you when I get to a real keyboard. But fuck me are you beyond ignorant.

Fucking douchebag.
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Strangelove » Thu May 02, 2013 5:48 pm

^^^^ Image

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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby ukcanuck » Thu May 02, 2013 6:09 pm

Holy shit meds its the playoffs do you got enough time to school me and AV for his line juggling?
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Meds » Thu May 02, 2013 10:59 pm

First of all, UK, I'll address your "definition of Alcoholism".....

Yes, it is an accepted medical condition and a known killer. It is also considered to be a psychiatric condition along with other addiction problems. It is NO way a life threatening condition in most cases that involve emergency services (outside of a drunk driver causing a wreck). Alcoholism is a slow killer, it is a chronic problem with the abuser, it is long term and doesn't develop overnight or after a quick binge. The people who suffer from alcoholism do need help, but not the kind that you can get on a nightly basis from our emergency services and ER departments at a hospital. These people need to be ADMITTED into a hospital or substance abuse rehab program at a proper facility. They do not, and they cannot, be cured or treated in an Emergency Department. They will be processed, the doctor will look at them, do a quick assessment and interview, and then release them into the care of the RCMP. That same doctor will then ask me, or my co-workers, why I even bothered to waste his time, the hospital's resources, and the gas/diesel required to transport this person, rather than just let them go with the RCMP in the first place. The people that drain the system are people who are refusing help. They get admitted, they get advised where to seek help, they ignore it, they leave AMA (against medical advice) and return to the street and the bottle. They are then back in emergency a few nights later, or sometimes through during the day, and they don't want anything more than a bed to sleep off their alcohol induced fog in. These are people who are suffering from a self inflicted disease, and they do not want help. They often refuse treatments outright. They will suddenly complain of some sudden ailment when faced with the prospect of going to the drunk tank with the police. Once there they have a different complaint for the hospital staff. After a nap and checking to see that nobody is watching, the sneak out, sometimes before a doctor can even arrive. They just abused the medical system to dodge the cops and the drunk tank. I have even picked up the same person 4 times in a single week FROM THE RCMP JAIL CELLS because he's smashed drunk, picked up on public intoxication, and then suddenly develops chest pain. We are often still filling out the paperwork in Emergency when he bolts for the door.

As for your "news flash".....

Here's a news flash for you. The health care system is there for people who need it.....and accept the treatment offered and provided. The emergency department is for people with a genuine medical emergency. It is NOT for someone with the sniffles, or with a bad hangover. It is not for someone with a chronic disease or ailment to show up when they feel they need to after ignoring doctors orders. It is not for someone to end-round the police. These people are not experiencing any kind of emergency.

Yes, some people show up there because they are scared and in pain. Some people just don't want to wait for an appointment with their doctor. People who go to emergency are just as often lazy, drunk, uninformed, or overreacting. The people who fit into the scared and genuinely sick and/or in pain category are not the people who get frowned upon.

Here's another example for you. A while ago my partner and I were called to a local grocery store for someone with back pain. We get there and see nobody around the entrance. But we do see a well known alcoholic sitting in the wheel chair that he really doesn't need. Let's call him Tim for now. Now Tim is literally sitting in his own shit, he wheels around with a wheel chair that he stole from the hospital, he is a walking bio-hazard. We go in and are greeted by the assistant manager of the store. We are there for our regular. So Tim showed up in the grocery store and asked for them to call the wet shelter to come and pick him up and bring him in for the night. They knew who it was and said no, we don't provide transport to here, they can take a cab. When Tim was informed that he couldn't get picked up, he said he has no money for a taxi, so the assistant manager called the RCMP. The RCMP informed them that it would be a while as they were busy, and when Tim found out that the RCMP were coming he started complaining of back pain and said he needed an ambulance to get take him to the hospital. When we arrived we asked him what was going on, his response was he'd been drinking and he wanted a ride to the wet shelter. We told him we can't take him there. Then he said he needs to go to the hospital because his back hurts. He tells the hospital staff that he wants to go to the shelter. They can't accommodate him. His back hurts again. Tim needs to be admitted into a treatment facility for his substance abuse problems. He won't go. But he is willing to live off of welfare and use the Ambulance Service as a taxi to get him closer to his destination. He's smart enough to play the system, he's smart enough to know that accepting treatment would be the right decision.

Now, as to who is qualified....

I'm not really sure where you're from or how they do it there, but it's pretty rare in most towns in BC now to have an "ambulance driver with a first aid kit" responding to a call. The majority of paramedics are qualified to determine whether or not a person is drunk or in need of EMERGENCY MEDICAL CARE. This qualification comes via training. Being instructed and shown how to look at someone and size up their overall condition, it's called an initial impression. Following this there is an assessment process that includes interviewing the person, taking their vitals, visualizing their injuries, listening to their breathing and heart tones, looking for other little signs that might indicate the person's condition. This training is just a bit more in-depth than a two week first aid course where you write a test and put someone on a spineboard to get your certificate. If that isn't enough for you then maybe it becomes especially true when the individual has been picked up by said paramedic a dozen times over the last month. It becomes even more true when the person admits to having downed a two-six, shared a 40 of cherry wine, and maybe even a couple of beer.....but I'm sure you are qualified to tell me who is and isn't qualified to determine someone's overall health and need for medical aid.
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby ukcanuck » Fri May 03, 2013 1:40 am

meds wrote: Yes, it is an accepted medical condition and a known killer. It is also considered to be a psychiatric condition along with other addiction problems. It is NO way a life threatening condition in most cases that involve emergency services (outside of a drunk driver causing a wreck). Alcoholism is a slow killer, it is a chronic problem with the abuser, it is long term and doesn't develop overnight or after a quick binge. The people who suffer from alcoholism do need help, but not the kind that you can get on a nightly basis from our emergency services and ER departments at a hospital. These people need to be ADMITTED into a hospital or substance abuse rehab program at a proper facility. They do not, and they cannot, be cured or treated in an Emergency Department. They will be processed, the doctor will look at them, do a quick assessment and interview, and then release them into the care of the RCMP



Meds wrote: Here's the kicker, yes, it gets better.....if this guy starts puking all over the drunk tank, the RCMP call us paramedics over to do a wellness check on the patient. Or at least they used to. We can't anymore. Now we have to transport him back to the Emergency Department to get re-assessed by a physician all over again. After all, the violent puking, retching, and heaving, could be stomach cancer or an abdominal bleed. So the cost just doubled.....all because someone can't stay sober.


So an abdominal bleed is not life threatening ?

So your not qualified to diagnose or equipped to diagnose an abdominal bleed and have to transport the drunk... Excuse me Patient back to see someone who is qualified?

Sounds like your class four driver training and six month first aid course really comes in handy diagnosing the medical system's financial woes

Lets back track a bit here to the important part in all this...

meds wrote: The ethical laws and regulations that govern the medical system in North America contribute massive costs to an already beleaguered system.


Ethically speaking that alcoholic is a victim of a social disease that is far more complex than the "self inflicted" condition you so shabbily disregard.

You are not only not qualified to judge how sick the man you describe is , you don't seem to have a clue about the depth and breadth of how alcoholism affects the body and brain. Its ability to steal a man's will or the misery it perpetrates on its victims.

Ethically you are obligated to show a fuck load more empathy than your describing here.


however, the real reason I called you out on this is the simpleton theory that ambulance rides to ERs and drunk tanks is why healthcare tax dollars are so high.

The real reason healthcare eats up so much of the provincial government Is that there are more of us, we live longer, and doctors can actually cure many more diseases than before but the material cost of doing so (high technology) is virtually through the roof.

Children's hospital, cancer clinics, quadruple by pass surgery, artificial limbs and joints, pharmaceuticals, these are the big ticket items that drive up health care costs

Your pathetic drunk is peanuts by comparison .
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Rumsfeld » Fri May 03, 2013 12:51 pm

Keep in mind that, going by his avatar, Meds is a black lab. So he's actually putting forth a pretty strong argument.

For a black lab.
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby donlever » Fri May 03, 2013 2:00 pm

...I think I have to actually put in a real cover my ass and hope (instead of a protest) vote this time around.

Way to fuk things up guys.

Jesus.
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Narg CC » Sat May 04, 2013 1:00 am

Topper wrote:Exploration companies assume a huge risk trying to find a deposit. Odds are probably better at the Craps tables. As we saw with all the previous NDP administrations in BC, land tenure of mineral claims becomes doubtful. Without that, investors will not risk the venture capital involved in exploration. By it very nature, exploration occurs primarily in rural areas and is major employer in rural BC. It is the largest employer of Wagon Burners in BC.

Permitting and building a mine like Mt Milligan is a $1B + investment and that does not include exploration costs to find and define the project. The Crown does not assume any of those risks.

How do you determine the in situ value of a deposit with metal prices fluctuating constantly? The easiest way to add tonnage to a deposit is not by doing additional exploration, but rather by increasing metal prices. I can think of only one BC metals mine that has strong metal price security and all the others are borderline profitable operations.

A small community in the Cariboo that I ran a program in did an economic study to indicate where most of the legal $'s in the community were coming from. They looked at logging, mining, exploration, hunting/fishing guides, tourism...... Mineral exploration and mining trumped all others. Logging and forestry had the most employees, mining and exploration had the least. However the money spent in the local community was far greater than any other industries. At the time of the study, I had the only exploration program there. I rented a cabin at a local resort, the four man drill crew rented another place. I had two direct employees and we used a local logging contractor for road building, drill site preparation and reclamation. Myself, my employees and contractors bought our groceries, hardware and fuel in the local shops. Dined at the local cafe and pub.

It comes down to dollars spent locally. Yes big ticket items like assay cost and the drill contractors are moneys going elsewhere, but the money spent locally is what matters most. the gas station, cafe, pub, grocery store all ended up hiring additional staff. Spend two minutes and ask the local shop keepers and their employees what they think.

Last year there was +$7 million exploration program on that project and approximately 20 locals were employed along with an out of town staff of 25 housed at a variety of accommodations in the community.


Mining industry has to be one of the most poorly understood industries in the country. To most people, a prospector is a toothless, bearded old man living in a cabin in the woods. Gold is found in the Yukon, by panning creeks.

I could talk for quite some time about this, but in short, mining is absolutely key to BC (and Canada's) economy, and Dix and the NDP just plain don't understand that. Their expected arrival has already had a negative impact on mining in BC, as investors don't want to put any new money into BC projects, fearing the projects will be stalled due to excessive regulations, paperwork, and "studies". For those of us working in the industry, the NDP's arrival will be unfortunate, but not the end of the world, as projects will be pursued in more mining-friendly jurisdictions. Saskatchewan, I predict, will see a major increase in mineral exploration over the next few years.

That's not to say all is rosey under the Libs. They are incredibly arrogant, and have been all-talk/no-walk as far as streamlining procedures ("all-talk" is probably generous). But really at the end of the day, a government worker is a government worker. No offence intended to government workers, but they move very slooowly indeed, and often do not understand the needs of the industry, resulting them in making bad decisions *for* the industry.

Greenies don't seem to understand that preventing a mine from opening in Canada (with all our safety rules and environmental regulations), just means a mine is going to be opened somewhere else..How do you think Canada's regulations compare to those of Mexico? Colombia? Rwanda? China????
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Topper » Wed May 08, 2013 11:31 am

Got a call from the local NDP sweat shop yesterday evening.

"Sir, don't you agree it is time for a change."

"Yes I do, but I do not see a viable alternative to the current administration. I will not vote NDP as I work in the mining industry and they appear to be against resource development", says I. "Despite their promises otherwise, I recall what happened to the industry under the two previous NDP administrations and they have completely lost my trust."

"Oh, but Adrian Dix has stated he is in favour of mining jobs."

"Mr Dix is in favour of existing mining jobs but not in developing new ones. He wants additional studies on the Ajax mine development. He has only commented that project already in the development pipeline will require additional studies"

"Here's a question is, if Mr Dix wants a return to the two tiered environmental review process as he has stated with regards to the Northern Gateway and possible Kinder Morgan pipelines, where does he stand on the Prosperity Mine development? The project was endorsed by the BC Environmental Assessment process, but was turned down by the Federal Process. Is Mr. Dix in favour of development of the Prosperity Mine since it passed the Provincial Environmental Review?"

"Since Mr Dix has already promised to increase corporate tax rates, why is he further burdening resource development companies with the cost of doubling up of the Environmental Review process?"

"I'm sorry sir, I can not answer your questions," says the weasel.

"I doubt if Adrian can either," says I.

I think they deleted me from their phone list.
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Arachnid » Thu May 09, 2013 2:40 pm

Narg CC wrote:
Topper wrote:Exploration companies assume a huge risk trying to find a deposit. Odds are probably better at the Craps tables. As we saw with all the previous NDP administrations in BC, land tenure of mineral claims becomes doubtful. Without that, investors will not risk the venture capital involved in exploration. By it very nature, exploration occurs primarily in rural areas and is major employer in rural BC. It is the largest employer of Wagon Burners in BC.

Permitting and building a mine like Mt Milligan is a $1B + investment and that does not include exploration costs to find and define the project. The Crown does not assume any of those risks.

How do you determine the in situ value of a deposit with metal prices fluctuating constantly? The easiest way to add tonnage to a deposit is not by doing additional exploration, but rather by increasing metal prices. I can think of only one BC metals mine that has strong metal price security and all the others are borderline profitable operations.

A small community in the Cariboo that I ran a program in did an economic study to indicate where most of the legal $'s in the community were coming from. They looked at logging, mining, exploration, hunting/fishing guides, tourism...... Mineral exploration and mining trumped all others. Logging and forestry had the most employees, mining and exploration had the least. However the money spent in the local community was far greater than any other industries. At the time of the study, I had the only exploration program there. I rented a cabin at a local resort, the four man drill crew rented another place. I had two direct employees and we used a local logging contractor for road building, drill site preparation and reclamation. Myself, my employees and contractors bought our groceries, hardware and fuel in the local shops. Dined at the local cafe and pub.

It comes down to dollars spent locally. Yes big ticket items like assay cost and the drill contractors are moneys going elsewhere, but the money spent locally is what matters most. the gas station, cafe, pub, grocery store all ended up hiring additional staff. Spend two minutes and ask the local shop keepers and their employees what they think.

Last year there was +$7 million exploration program on that project and approximately 20 locals were employed along with an out of town staff of 25 housed at a variety of accommodations in the community.


Mining industry has to be one of the most poorly understood industries in the country. To most people, a prospector is a toothless, bearded old man living in a cabin in the woods. Gold is found in the Yukon, by panning creeks.

I could talk for quite some time about this, but in short, mining is absolutely key to BC (and Canada's) economy, and Dix and the NDP just plain don't understand that. Their expected arrival has already had a negative impact on mining in BC, as investors don't want to put any new money into BC projects, fearing the projects will be stalled due to excessive regulations, paperwork, and "studies". For those of us working in the industry, the NDP's arrival will be unfortunate, but not the end of the world, as projects will be pursued in more mining-friendly jurisdictions. Saskatchewan, I predict, will see a major increase in mineral exploration over the next few years.

That's not to say all is rosey under the Libs. They are incredibly arrogant, and have been all-talk/no-walk as far as streamlining procedures ("all-talk" is probably generous). But really at the end of the day, a government worker is a government worker. No offence intended to government workers, but they move very slooowly indeed, and often do not understand the needs of the industry, resulting them in making bad decisions *for* the industry.

Greenies don't seem to understand that preventing a mine from opening in Canada (with all our safety rules and environmental regulations), just means a mine is going to be opened somewhere else..How do you think Canada's regulations compare to those of Mexico? Colombia? Rwanda? China????


There is a simple and fair solution to all resource development.

Carbon Tax.

In fact most oil companies are for it. It's the Neo-cons that are not as it will expose the corrupt practice of subsidies and kickbacks and the dirty bitumen sands for what they are. Unsustainable. If you can pay the price for development then there shouldn't be an issue. The monies can be used for clean tech jobs (something Canada lags far behind in G8 countries)...when the resources are gone there will be nothing so there has to be a plan to replace all those precious mining jobs.
They did this in Germany. No more resources left. Start a high-tech manufacturing industry of green machines.

It's not about greens (or any other stupid party for that matter, they all say shyte until they get elected). Fuck all the parties. Call them on it. Most have no plan for the further. Just the next few years of jobs. Ask them about the next 25 years and they have no vision or leadership.
Fuck them, time for grassroots communities to create and govern their own economies of scale ( :crazy: I sound like a pinko-occupier 8-) ).
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby Meds » Sun May 12, 2013 5:29 pm

Topper wrote:"I'm sorry sir, I can not answer your questions," says the weasel.

"I doubt if Adrian can either," says I.


Brilliant. Because it's true.

Woulda loved to see a closed circuit feed of that caller's face. :lol:
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Re: Election Memorial Jr.

Postby SKYO » Mon May 13, 2013 12:59 pm

Topper wrote:Politician speech at it's best

“I’ve never said we want a review on fracking. What I have said is we want to make sure that we’re always reviewing how well we’re doing things to make sure we’re doing it as well as we possibly can and find ways to do it better,” she told reporters in Kamloops.


http://www.vancouversun.com/news/bc-election/Liberal+candidate+calls+review+fracking/8327845/story.html

lol

Topper wrote:Fracking in deep wells is a proven safe procedure. Shallow wells is another matter.


Fracking just needs to end, natural gas prices are already very low, add to that the devastation it causes is horrendous, its a no brainer to ban fracking entirely.

A lot of countries have already banned fracking, http://keeptapwatersafe.org/global-bans-on-fracking/ BC needs to catch up with the times!

For a visual understanding about fracking and what it impacts, you should check out http://www.gaslandthemovie.com

Some tidbits:

Though natural gas has been touted as a clean burning alternative to dirty coal and oil, there is a high cost associated with the fracking process. In fact, research shows that hydraulic fracking actually results in greater total emissions than coal or oil. To make matters worse, gas extracted in the Northern Rockies is piped to Alberta where it is used in large quantities to extract tar sands oil. In other words, the development of shale gas is helping fuel the expansion of the tar sands, one of the planet’s biggest sources of climate change causing greenhouse gas emissions.

All of this devastation is occurring in a place where the natural beauty rivals that of any region in Canada. From boreal forests to rare grasslands, lush valley bottoms to alpine tundras: this region’s many ecosystems support a unique variety of plants, birds and animals. Populations of grizzly bears, woodland caribou, bison, mountain goats, stone sheep, wolves, moose, elk, wolverines and lynx make this area the “largest predator-prey system in North America”.

If fracking continues, the Northern Rockies’ remaining wilderness areas will be fragmented by clear cuts, road access, pipelines and transmission lines, impacting wildlife corridors, critical habitat and degrading overall ecosystem integrity.


The menace of natural gas fracking in northern BC is one of the biggest environmental issues facing Canada today. It is high time that we take decisive steps to protect the Northern Rockies. It is high time to stop fracking.

This map is a coupla years old..
Image

Some of these companies now are acquiring smaller water licenses over and over again to avoid the attention with acquiring large water licenses they need for the fracking process.

/end fracking rant
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