Gills and Vigneault

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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:35 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Sure it's somewhat unfair given Luc and his death


I agree, who knows what may have become of Bourdon, he could have been a Chelios or a Ballard. I won't bring this up again.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:35 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Nonuts inherited what Burkie left him in Vancouver. It's all chasing tails. Nonis has almost NOTHING to do with this Toronto team and their recent success. NOTHING Dude.


So, it was the work of the previous GM as to why the Leafs made the playoffs for the first time in 9 years? I'm getting a serious case of Deja Vu right now.

U tell me what he has done for them? Has he made a trade? Drafted anyone?

Excuse me...he traded for Ryan O'Byrne
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:37 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:U tell me what he has done for them? Has he made a trade? Drafted anyone?


I need a comparable, what did Gillis do in his first year?

I tend to look at what Nonis did by subtraction, i.e. trimming some of Burkes fat in Connolly and Lombardi. The O'Byrne trade was a fantastic depth move for the playoffs.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:39 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:U tell me what he has done for them? Has he made a trade? Drafted anyone?


I need a comparable, what did Gillis do in his first year?

I tend to look at what Nonis did by subtraction, i.e. trimming some of Burkes fat in Connolly and Lombardi. The O'Byrne trade was a fantastic depth move for the playoffs.

Come on...nothing much happens in a first year. You're just claiming he brought them to their first playoffs in 9 years and I say it has essentially nothing to do with him.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:42 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:

His team was going backwards when he got canned if you remember. Missed the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years.



3 years as a GM ain't exactly ample time to see ones work come to it's fruition. You are very selective in your points, choosing to ignore the fact that this teams current core that was put in place by previous management had not reached it's prime at the time of Nonis firing. I remember the words out of Nonis mouth on his firing, "Frustrating, cause this team is on it's way to becoming very good"

Gillis got all the glory on previous managements good work at building this current core group. Anyhow, it's a tip of the hat to previous management by Gillis not trading any of these players.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:44 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote: and I say it has essentially nothing to do with him.


So, what has Gillis benefitted from previous managements work here?

Uncle dans leg wrote:Come on...nothing much happens in a first year.


OK, so according to you, nothing much happens in the first year...then Nonis only had two years to judge his true body of work as a Canuck GM, wow, that's eternity.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:50 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Grabner(14th) was a fuckin joke from day 1


Grabner has 16 goals (more than any Canuck, 2nd behind Tavares) in this shortened season, the Isles are one of the NHL's hottest teams right now. I would say that Grabner is far from being a 'fuckin' joke. But not surprised you feel that way, don't want to make Gillis look bad for the Ballard trade.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:55 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:
So far(and it's pretty early) Gillis has done a decent job with his picks. Not great but decent. We can blow snot about this all day long but in the end your hate for the guy is irrational. So what is it...you have an eye-bag phobia?


Well, 5 drafts later, compared to Nonis 3 drafts, still waiting for proper judgement. I mean that is, if you go by Corrado's first game last night. Ya'd think by now that we'd be seeing players making the grade full time from his first two drafts now, so I don't know where you get off by saying 'Decent'. Yes there is CoHo but according to all of you - HE SUCKS, but our asset for him now is Kassian who scored his first goal in 29 games last night and is what, a minus 7 on a defense first team with amazing goaltending put in place by Nonis.


Gillis drafting has been far from decent.
Last edited by RoyalDude on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:57 pm

will have to conitnue later...got shit to do but hold these thoughts ;)
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Jovocop » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:04 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Grabner(14th) was a fuckin joke from day 1


Grabner has 16 goals (more than any Canuck, 2nd behind Tavares) in this shortened season, the Isles are one of the NHL's hottest teams right now. I would say that Grabner is far from being a 'fuckin' joke. But not surprised you feel that way, don't want to make Gillis look bad for the Ballard trade.


That is the key word right there. There are lots of teams that could get hot for a short period of time, like 5 - 10 games. Consistency differentiate pretenders from contenders. The Blue Jackets have been red hot up late too. Are they really a contender??

Talking about the Ballard trade, Ballard looked good playing for basement teams like Panthers and Phoenix. However, he did not perform as expected. The same could be said about Grabner. He scored 16 goals because he gets the ice time playing for a not-so-stacked Islanders. Do you truly believe that he could replace Daniel, Burrows, Higgins, or Raymond if Grabner was still a Canuck? :roll:
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:08 pm

Jovocop wrote:He scored 16 goals because he gets the ice time playing for a not-so-stacked Islanders.


According to Tant, he gets 12 minutes a game, 3rd/4th line duty and no PP time and still manages to score 16 goals. That's crazy shit
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:11 pm

Jovocop wrote:
That is the key word right there. There are lots of teams that could get hot for a short period of time, like 5 - 10 games. Consistency differentiate pretenders from contenders. The Blue Jackets have been red hot up late too. Are they really a contender??



The Kings squeaked into the playoffs last year for the last seed of the Western Conference, I'm sure I don't need to tell you what happened there. If there is a time to be hot, it's heading into the playoffs.

YAY PRESIDENTS TROPHY!
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:16 pm

Tiger wrote: Please recheck the playoff records spudman. two years agp we won the first 2 playoff games . Bolland was on the injury list.. the Sedins were not so effective after he came back and it took OT in the 7th game to get by Chitown.. Not talking regular season.. but the playoffs ..The previous year the Bolland line owned them. Points ? sure they got some but gave up a hell of a lot more goals then they scored..


Drance Numbers: Bolland is hardly Sedin kryptonite
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Jovocop » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:27 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Jovocop wrote:He scored 16 goals because he gets the ice time playing for a not-so-stacked Islanders.


According to Tant, he gets 12 minutes a game, 3rd/4th line duty and no PP time and still manages to score 16 goals. That's crazy shit


According to NHL.com, Grabner had 21 points in 42 games played, 0.5 ppg. He had 2PPG with an average ice-time of 14:46 per game.

Daniel had 40 points in 46 games played 19:02 TOI/G, 0.87 ppg
Hansen had 26 points in 45 games played 17:38 TOI/G, 0.58 ppg
Burrows had 24 points in 46 games played 18:56 TOI/G, 0.52 ppg
Raymond had 21 points in 44 games played 15:52 TOI/G, 0.48 ppg
Higgins had 15 points in 39 games played 16:28 TOI/G, 0.38 ppg
Kassian had 10 points in 37 games played 13:26 TOI/G, 0.27 ppg

Grabner's stat is in line with Raymond's; unfortunately not the salary...
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Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ESQ » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:40 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
ESQ wrote:
He claimed the best offer he could get on Brad Richards was both Sedins and Edler and Raymond - does that mean that Nonis is a spade and hated by the GM Club? Does that mean all of the other GMs hate and don't respect Nonis?



you lost me there

You implied that Gillis failed as a GM because he pissed off the "GM Club" and they all wanted to fleece him or screw him over. You said that Gillis was in this position because of what you say are slights or "weaseling" into the position at the expense of Nonis.

I pointed out that Nonis couldn't make trades either, and other GMs wanted to fleece him. So, to call a "spade a spade" by your logic, Nonis must be hated by the GM Club as well because they all tried to fleece him.

One thing Gillis has never done is sign a Marc Chouinard to play in the top 6. Or traded for a Matt Pettinger to play in the top 6. It was those kind of garbage moves (which were the majority of Nonis' moves, and often cost us draft picks) that made him a failure as a GM.
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