Gills and Vigneault

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:09 pm

Meds wrote:He should have been traded with someone for an upgrade.


Who exactly is available that would be an upgrade on Edler?? Kinda like Topper said, this notion that we can just acquire who we want because we want them is pretty silly. Edler is a top-10/12 d-man in the league. He's not top-5, and top-5 guys aren't available. We have to live with what we have, which shouldn't be hard cuz most teams would LOVE Alex Edler @ $5M/season.

He's 6th in Goals by d-men. The guys above him are Subban, Green, Phaneuf, Markov and Yandle.

Last year only Karlsson, Byfuglien, Campbell, Chara, Pietrangelo and Weber had more points from the back end.

I'm curious who we'd be able to "upgrade" to. Forget Pietrangelo, Weber, Chara, Subban and Karlsson (and add Doughty, Suter and Letang to this list). They aren't moving. I imagine Yandle is in there unless we're giving up too much.

I wouldn't want Green ($6M for worse d-zone play/health issues), Phaneuf ($6.5M, ditto), Markov ($5.75 Age/health), Campbell ($7.1M age/contract), Byfuglien ($5.2M drug addict). I wouldn't trade Edler for any of them.

Next season Edler's contract puts him as the 24th highest paid d-man in the league (cap-wise). He's tied with Paul Martin. I'd rather have Edler.

The Canucks should be looking to add someone that allows Edler to play his game, not trade him for someone better. The guys that are BETTER than Edler, and there aren't many, simply aren't available unless we're willing to gut our franchise for them.
User avatar
Island Nucklehead
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3506
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:27 pm

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Tiger » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:35 pm

A lot of the "blame" on AV is warranted and Gilis hasn't been a great GM either..
However AV had a great season this year.. getting the most of a injury plagued and
underperforming team..

Letting Mitchell and Salo walk because of lowballing them was not a great move by Gillis..
Team loyalty has to work both ways..

It has been apparent for 4 years that the Sedins do not have playoff success against tough tight checking teams
but AV and Gillis have done little to change the Canucks playoff line ups. The Sedins are slowing down and still
cannot play well against Chitowns Bolland line or Beantowns Marchand line.. Nothing has been done since 2009 to
make them more effective or to bring in top players.. This year we are saddled with over 10 million of salary with players we
can't play or are redundant.. Maholtra, Luongo and Ballard..Thats Gillis's responsibility..Maholtra has been questionable for 3 years. Luongo a year and Ballard never played within the AV system well enough to earn a top 4 spot. The Edler sigining was not bright.. He hadn''t played that well in the last half of last season..
" If you cant beat them in the alley - you can't beat them on the ice
User avatar
Tiger
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:09 pm

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Topper » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:05 pm

HW, Gillis's comments after Weber signed in Nashville was that in his view, he could not sign Weber to term and without that, there was no deal.

So how would Weber's deal look in Vancouver with the decreasing cap next season?

Mitchell and Salo walking were no brainers. No different than Ohlund being allowed to walk. How would AV be able to bring along a young talented player like Tanev if Salo was clogging up a roster spot?
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 4266
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:16 pm

Tiger wrote:A lot of the "blame" on AV is warranted and Gilis hasn't been a great GM either..
However AV had a great season this year.. getting the most of a injury plagued and
underperforming team..

Letting Mitchell and Salo walk because of lowballing them was not a great move by Gillis..
Team loyalty has to work both ways..

It has been apparent for 4 years that the Sedins do not have playoff success against tough tight checking teams
but AV and Gillis have done little to change the Canucks playoff line ups. The Sedins are slowing down and still
cannot play well against Chitowns Bolland line or Beantowns Marchand line.. Nothing has been done since 2009 to
make them more effective or to bring in top players.. This year we are saddled with over 10 million of salary with players we
can't play or are redundant.. Maholtra, Luongo and Ballard..Thats Gillis's responsibility..Maholtra has been questionable for 3 years. Luongo a year and Ballard never played within the AV system well enough to earn a top 4 spot. The Edler sigining was not bright.. He hadn''t played that well in the last half of last season..


I dunno seemed like the Sedins did pretty good tonight against your tight checking team
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2147
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Tiger » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:32 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Tiger wrote:A lot of the "blame" on AV is warranted and Gilis hasn't been a great GM either..
However AV had a great season this year.. getting the most of a injury plagued and
underperforming team..

Letting Mitchell and Salo walk because of lowballing them was not a great move by Gillis..
Team loyalty has to work both ways..

It has been apparent for 4 years that the Sedins do not have playoff success against tough tight checking teams
but AV and Gillis have done little to change the Canucks playoff line ups. The Sedins are slowing down and still
cannot play well against Chitowns Bolland line or Beantowns Marchand line.. Nothing has been done since 2009 to
make them more effective or to bring in top players.. This year we are saddled with over 10 million of salary with players we
can't play or are redundant.. Maholtra, Luongo and Ballard..Thats Gillis's responsibility..Maholtra has been questionable for 3 years. Luongo a year and Ballard never played within the AV system well enough to earn a top 4 spot. The Edler sigining was not bright.. He hadn''t played that well in the last half of last season..


I dunno seemed like the Sedins did pretty good tonight against your tight checking team

Bolland only had 5 shifts.. looked like he was injured .. and he is the key to shutting down the Sedins.. Just hoping he can't play against them again..
" If you cant beat them in the alley - you can't beat them on the ice
User avatar
Tiger
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1034
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:09 pm

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Mondi » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:58 pm

Why even worry about Chicago? We can't play them until round 3, and by then chances are half of our team will be out with injuries.

Let's take it one round and one game at a time.
User avatar
Mondi
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 634
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:02 pm

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:32 am

Tiger wrote:Bolland only had 5 shifts.. looked like he was injured .. and he is the key to shutting down the Sedins.. Just hoping he can't play against them again..


The Sedins have put up a ton of points against Chicago the past several years, you are miles off on your point here.
Potatoe1
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby dbr » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:57 am

Big fan of Island Nucklehead's posting in this thread; I don't have anything else to add because it's pretty well all been covered.
dbr
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2279
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Lancer » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:34 am

Jovocop wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Lets not forget that Weber wanted to come here. Wanted us to make a huge offer sheet, which Philly did. But MG told him he fully expected Nashville to match any offer sheet put out there and it would not work. HE said the only thing that would work was signing a one year offer sheet, which Nashville would match, and then he would become UFA and then the Canucks would offer him his huge deal. They even had discussions about what that deal may look like but since the new CBA was an unknown no one could predict exactly what it would look like. So Weber followed the money, took the insane offer sheet from Philly fully expecting that Nashville would match. So now he is stuck in Nashville instead of contemplating FA in the off season and the ability to go wherever he wanted.

I am somewhat curious as to why we seem to be ending us as an after thought in a some of these deals. Clowe, Shultz, Doan, and apparently a few deadline day deals for depth D. IS there something in the MG negotiating style that is hindering the acquisition of players? Not saying there is but just wondering.


Personally, I am not so sure why players like Clowe and Weber would follow the money instead of waiting to play for a team that could win it all. Both players could have waited just a season or even half a season to get the big extension that they will still get from some teams. Instead, they wanted guaranteed money up front. After all, I just don't think that they care much about winning except the pay cheque.


Different strokes for different folks. I think Clowe just wanted to go east. As for Weber, who can blame him for signing an offer sheet that guaranteed him money going into a new CBA after which nobody could say for sure what the FA market would look like? Anything can happen to these guys (see Manny) and they only play for so long, so why not go for the sure payday vice taking the one-year offer sheet and rolling the dice as to how much you would get in the new market? I don't blame Weber one iota. Besides, despite what the Toronto trolls are saying, these contracts can be moved without it killing teams so if Weber truly wants out of Nashville and playing for Vancouver then something can no doubt be arranged as early as this summer when the teams can figure out what they need, how much cap room they have and what the market is. I suspect this will be a lively off-season to say the least.

As for the college FAs, I'm pretty sure they're looking at Vancouver and seeing a stacked team with few chances to play a signficant role quickly. Would DeKeyser have signed with Detroit if they had the bluelines the likes of what they had during the 90s? I'm pretty sure MG gave them the whole "we can't guarantee you a spot, but we can guarantee you a chance to develop and excel on a good team" pitch. Contrast that with the likes of Tambellini all but honking on Schultz's knob and offering his son as the kid's bellhop, and you can see where MG would come up 2nd in signing some of the college FAs.

As for MG being possibly shut-out of trade deals by other GMs, I don't think it's a matter of his manner or style. It's a close fraternity, and no doubt Cheeseburglar cried his eyes out to Burke and the other cronies at the blatant injustice of it all. No doubt there is a perception that Gillis is an upstart who weaseled his way into the job and thinks a little too much of himself, so he may not enjoy the personal contacts that some other more long-standing GMs may enjoy. I think the bigger reason is the other GMs see MG's team as a threat to win it all and aren't willing to help him out unless he's giving the farm away. Some may see him in a bind and want to fleece him - especially the western-conference teams. Remember Chicago after their Cup run? Who was lining up lend Tallon (a card-carrying member of the old boy club) a hand without a dagger in the other? It's just the competitive nature of the biz more than anything personal.
Love the Sport. Love the Team.

Hate the League.
User avatar
Lancer
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1265
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:41 am
Location: Arnprior, Ontario

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:51 am

Tiger wrote:A lot of the "blame" on AV is warranted and Gilis hasn't been a great GM either..
However AV had a great season this year.. getting the most of a injury plagued and
underperforming team..



Statement of the year, but unfortunately Meds goes blind when he reads stuff like this. :P
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:55 am

Lancer wrote:As for MG being possibly shut-out of trade deals by other GMs, I don't think it's a matter of his manner or style. It's a close fraternity, and no doubt Cheeseburglar cried his eyes out to Burke and the other cronies at the blatant injustice of it all. No doubt there is a perception that Gillis is an upstart who weaseled his way into the job and thinks a little too much of himself, so he may not enjoy the personal contacts that some other more long-standing GMs may enjoy. I think the bigger reason is the other GMs see MG's team as a threat to win it all and aren't willing to help him out unless he's giving the farm away. Some may see him in a bind and want to fleece him - especially the western-conference teams. Remember Chicago after their Cup run? Who was lining up lend Tallon (a card-carrying member of the old boy club) a hand without a dagger in the other? It's just the competitive nature of the biz more than anything personal.


By making yourself an enemy with the GM fraternity only makes Gillis job that much harder. He is too arrogant to rub shoulders with the fraternity and therefore trading partners for him are few and far between. Mike thinks he's as smart as they come but the high road approach he takes only shows how much of an idiot he truly is.

If Mike had a kept his opinions to himself and shown a little humility at the hiring I think he has more friends in the GM club than he has now. Lets call a spade a spade, he weaseled his way into that job, courting Aquaman with Gallagher behind the scenes while Nonis and crew were running the club and then to boot he throws Nonis under the bus at the press conference of his hiring yet a lot of you are crying your eyes for Nonis getting revenge on Gillis. Gillis created this ill will, not Nonis. Good on ya Nonis.
Last edited by RoyalDude on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Topper » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:58 am

If you are more concerned about the guy you are dealing with than the players you are exchanging, you are not doing your job.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 4266
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:00 am

Topper wrote:If you are more concerned about the guy you are dealing with than the players you are exchanging, you are not doing your job.


How the hell can you get a deal done in the first place if the guy you are dealing with can't stand you. Nonis never wanted Luongo in the first place, the whole thing was a big fuck you to Gillis. And BTW, if you look around, the Leafs are doing quite fine without the 34 year old Luongo and his brilliant contract that Gillis signed him to.

Bottom line, Gillis is in a pickle with Luongo, everyone knows that, maybe Nonis was trying to get him for a song in which, eventually...a song is all Gillis will get from him. Nonis owes the Canucks nothing.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3819
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby dbr » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:06 am

RoyalDude wrote:If Mike had a kept his opinions to himself and shown a little humility at the hiring I think he has more friends in the GM club than he has now


:lol:

Do you know how many times you've brought this up?

Honestly if anyone in the hockey world is making decisions in 2013 based on a couple of phrases uttered at a press conference in 2008 they should get their head checked..

As for how GMs who don't like each other conduct trades, Elliotte Friedman covered that recently.. "we had our assistants do it."
dbr
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2279
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Gills and Vigneault

Postby Topper » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:09 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Topper wrote:If you are more concerned about the guy you are dealing with than the players you are exchanging, you are not doing your job.


How the hell can you get a deal done in the first place if the guy you are dealing with can't stand you. Nonis never wanted Luongo in the first place, the whole thing was a big fuck you to Gillis. And BTW, if you look around, the Leafs are doing quite fine without the 34 year old Luongo and his brilliant contract that Gillis signed him to.

Bottom line, Gillis is in a pickle with Luongo, everyone knows that, maybe Nonis was trying to get him for a song in which, eventually...a song is all Gillis will get from him. Nonis owes the Canucks nothing.

Nice segue to another dead horse.

Did you pick up a new stick along the way?
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 4266
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], qubikal and 5 guests