Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby wafflecombine » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:54 am

BigTuna wrote: Let's see Mike Smith in a non-trap system.


On this account I have to agree with you BT. Watching the game last night I'm thankful no-one got the bright idea you had to do a shot everytime 5 'Yotes players were simultaneously within 10 feet of the goalie.

Even a pro drinker would have been under the table before the end of the first period.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby tantalum » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:07 am

Reimer right now is middle of the road (Rask and Schneider are top of the pack right now and should be the leading Vezina votes today). 14 days ago his number weren't very good. he has played well the past couple of weeks and his numbers came up. Is he Cloutier? or is he a top 10 guy? We don't know yet. Last night he got the win but he wasn't good. A couple of goals while not terrible weren't great either. A TON of just terrible rebounds on shots that the Rangers simply knocked wide instead of burying. Yeah the Leafs give up too many shots and the blueline isn't great but some of that shot total comes solely from Reimer being unable to control shots he ought to be controlling. His glove hand is not good. He can go either way but right now it is just as likely he gets lit up in the playoffs....if not more likely. Especially as it looks like they will be meeting the Bruins or Canadians in the first round...two good offensive teams.

The Leafs have a chance to get a reasonable seed for the playoffs. Because of that, IF the goaltending is a major factor to them getting bounced early Nonis should have to answer questions. It's all well and good to appraise the team and not bring in much help if you are going to squeak in. It's quite another if you have a solid position and the addition of an impact player can get you a playoff round win or two. And that, IMO, is why Nonis really messed up on deadline day. He had the chance to add an impact player to a playoff team for nothing, at a position he WAS concerned about (you don't try to sign old goaltenders to big extensions to get them to move and then discuss other trade options if you are happy with your goaltending). He didn't because he gets stuck a bit when a team performs better than expected and he might have to accelerate his plan a bit.

It might work out for Nonis in the end, but I still think it's a mistake to leave an impact player on the table when you could have him for nothing.

We'll see what happens, but nothing I've seen this year would make me comfortable with Reimer in net if I was a Leafs fan.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:42 am

BigTuna wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Roy has averaged 60 + points a season while Bozak has averaged 40 + points a season. Roy is a much better player.


If anyone thinks Lu would be a backup in TO that person is a fucking idiot.


Roy's 60 point average is from the early part of his career.



Roy averaged 62 points his first 4 seasons. He has averaged 59 points his last 5 seasons. Quite the dropoff there. :roll: Like shooting tuna in a barrel.

Not to mention he had one bad year in 2011-12 when he was injured which skews the numbers. But hey you keep on keepin on it's good entertainment.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby Arachnid » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:47 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
BigTuna wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Roy has averaged 60 + points a season while Bozak has averaged 40 + points a season. Roy is a much better player.


If anyone thinks Lu would be a backup in TO that person is a fucking idiot.


Roy's 60 point average is from the early part of his career.



Roy averaged 62 points his first 4 seasons. He has averaged 59 points his last 5 seasons. Quite the dropoff there. :roll: Like shooting tuna in a barrel.

Not to mention he had one bad year in 2011-12 when he was injured which skews the numbers. But hey you keep on keepin on it's good entertainment.


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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:30 pm

Regarding Roy's future, neverminding the Cap hurdles Gillis has with the Nucks this summer, I just don't see Roy being all that excited being a 3rd line centre behind Hank and RK.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:43 pm

He is an Ottawa boy who has not overly enjoyed playing in the West. Front money right now is he hopes to have a chance to go to Ottawa. But time will tell. Who knows, maybe he falls in love with Vancouver and decides to work out a deal but boy oh boy I can't see the Canucks being able to afford him. He is everything I hope JS becomes and I think in a full season the Canucks will go with JS at third line centre and give him the full year to develop there.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:58 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
BigTuna wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Roy has averaged 60 + points a season while Bozak has averaged 40 + points a season. Roy is a much better player.


If anyone thinks Lu would be a backup in TO that person is a fucking idiot.


Roy's 60 point average is from the early part of his career.



Roy averaged 62 points his first 4 seasons. He has averaged 59 points his last 5 seasons. Quite the dropoff there. :roll: Like shooting tuna in a barrel.

Not to mention he had one bad year in 2011-12 when he was injured which skews the numbers. But hey you keep on keepin on it's good entertainment.

Like shooting tuna in a royal biker barrel??
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Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:58 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Like shooting tuna in a royal biker barrel??



Bikers ??? ! Who's wearing the assless chaps ? :?
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Re:

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:36 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
Like shooting tuna in a royal biker barrel??



Bikers ??? ! Who's wearing the assless chaps ? :?

I dunno but those things are sooo gay, unless your actually on the range with a horse that is....

Royal dude.... Biker dude....big tuna... Something smells like fish and it ain't the tuna
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby vic » Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:49 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Regarding Roy's future, neverminding the Cap hurdles Gillis has with the Nucks this summer, I just don't see Roy being all that excited being a 3rd line centre behind Hank and RK.



(next year) MOVE KELSER TO THE WING!!!

Top 3:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Kassian/Higgins - Roy - Kelser
Kassian/Higgins - Schroeder - Hansen
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby Zamboni Driver » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:02 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
A quality third line centre. We've since acquired a Centre that will allow us a 2A/2B combo. So yeah, there's nothing on Toronto's roster that we need.


Sorry Nucklehead, that's bunk. The Canucks couldn't use a quality 3rd line center and a solid defenceman? Or do you think Ebbett & Barker are what we need? :roll:

Island Nucklehead wrote:Derek Roy is better than Tyler Bozak. Even as a 3rd line Centre.


First off, Roy isn't a 3rd line center, a salary of $5 or $5.5 mil + puts him in 2nd line center territory, and 1st line on some teams.

Second, the comparison is rather useless. Maybe we should also point out that Bozak isn't as good as Crosby or Ovechkin?
It isn't a matter of Roy OR Bozak, we could have gotten both, or neither.
The question is what we could get back in return for Lu, and what would be better for the team.
Had we gotten Bozak & Franson for Lu (as was rumored) there's no reason why we couldn't ALSO get Roy as a rental, to make a really solid push in the playoffs.

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Derek Roy is better than Tyler Bozak. Even as a 3rd line Centre
.
Far better and Luongo is far better than Reimer.Not even sure why any of this is debatable. Reimer has better numbers in a lockout shortened season, BFD. He has never sustained good numbers for any length of time.


Blob, the reason is this:
1.) Yes, I agree that Reimer is not the same established quality reputation as Lu, (and maybe will never be) The point is that the beginning of the season is the time to do a deal, when the Laffs are not sure that Reimer can get them in the playoffs, and TO is somewhat desperate to break the 9 year drought. By the trade deadline (or after) they are not in a desperate need, as they are confident that they have a goalie who can get them into the first round, at least.

2.) I don't disagree that Roy has better numbers than Bozak, but Bozak is the better player FOR THE CANUCKS.
Why? - Because unlike Roy, we can actually afford to resign Bozak, and as he's from Western Canada and having played hockey in BC, he's more likely to want to stay here.

Don't get me wrong, Roy is a quality center, it's just that we can't afford him unless he is willing to take a big haircut, which I just don't see happening.

Canuck-One wrote: Luo didn't get sentenced to hockey banishment in Toronto and we'll get better players back in the summer than the ridiculous crap that they say MG was willing to accept. .
[/quote]

Canuck One, supposedly at the beginning of the season Gillis wanted a first, a top 6 (top 4) roster player, and a blue chip prospect. The Leafs were supposedly offering Bozak & Franson. By the trade deadline the offer had gone down to Scrivens & a 2nd & 3rd, provided Gillis would eat some of the salary. I can't see anyone making a much better offer, now that Toronto has blabbed what the going price was, we'll get some more lo-ball offers.

And the other downside is this, IF we had gotten some players at the beginning of the season, it would improve our depth in the playoffs, when third line scoring is often what's needed if the top lines get shut down.

Do you think that Ebbett & Barker/Ballard/Alberts are going to step it up in the playoffs?

The other factor is this, had we moved Lu's contract at the beginning of the season, we could have made some offer sheets or signed UFAs this summer when some quality players will be looking to move. Unless Lu's contract can be moved quickly then our hands are tied.

Bottom line - If Gillis this summer gets the kind of offer that supposedly he's looking for (a 1st, a roster player & a blue chip) or even close to that, I'll be shocked.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby Island Nucklehead » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:46 pm

Zamboni Driver wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:
A quality third line centre. We've since acquired a Centre that will allow us a 2A/2B combo. So yeah, there's nothing on Toronto's roster that we need.


Sorry Nucklehead, that's bunk. The Canucks couldn't use a quality 3rd line center and a solid defenceman? Or do you think Ebbett & Barker are what we need? :roll:


Why is that "bunk"? You cherry pick a quote from 3 weeks ago, when we acquired a CENTRE at the deadline, and now because of a coaching decision made post-deadline you figure we coulda used another Centre? Nice. If AV was using players at their correct position, as most of us assumed he would with that trade, Ebbet wouldn't be playing. Sedin-Kesler-Roy-Lapierre-Ebbet-Schroeder.

Same thing for Barker. Edler, Garrison, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Tanev, Ballard, Alberts, BARKER. So yeah, when guys get hurt (Bieksa, Tanev) or healthy scratched (Edler, Garrison, Hamhuis) we'll see Barker. He wouldn't play on a healthy back end.

Point being (again): why would we trade Luongo for players we don't need?


Island Nucklehead wrote:First off, Roy isn't a 3rd line center, a salary of $5 or $5.5 mil + puts him in 2nd line center territory, and 1st line on some teams.


No shit. But on this team he's third. Sedin and Kesler are both better at the Centre position.

Second, the comparison is rather useless. Maybe we should also point out that Bozak isn't as good as Crosby or Ovechkin?
It isn't a matter of Roy OR Bozak, we could have gotten both, or neither.
The question is what we could get back in return for Lu, and what would be better for the team.
Had we gotten Bozak & Franson for Lu (as was rumored) there's no reason why we couldn't ALSO get Roy as a rental, to make a really solid push in the playoffs.


Why is the Roy/Bozak comparison useless? These were both players that could have been targetted by the Canucks as deadline pickups. Roy was relatively cheap to acquire, and we got to keep Luongo. If you still have a massive boner for Bozak (who's also a rental), we can sign him in the offseason.

I'm also curious who would back up Schneider if we dealt Lou in your fantasy world. Hell, for all we know Luongo may start in the playoffs. Right now, it seems like hanging on to him AND filling our need at centre was a prudent move.

The bottom line is (assuming Toronto would consider trading Bozak) we had our choice of rentals. Roy >> Bozak. We picked up the better player for us now. We can still pick up the cheaper player in the offseason, for nothing but cap space. Seems pretty win win to me.


The other factor is this, had we moved Lu's contract at the beginning of the season, we could have made some offer sheets or signed UFAs this summer when some quality players will be looking to move. Unless Lu's contract can be moved quickly then our hands are tied.


Who? Luongo will more than likely go at the draft, well before UFA or offer sheet season. Even if when we do move him, chances are we're not going to have the cap space to compete for any of the bigger names.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby Zamboni Driver » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:02 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Why is that "bunk"? You cherry pick a quote from 3 weeks ago, when we acquired a CENTRE at the deadline, and now because of a coaching decision made post-deadline you figure we coulda used another Centre? Nice.


Roy does look good with Kesler & Higgins though, I'd just like to see an upgrade of Ebbett.

Island Nucklehead wrote:If AV was using players at their correct position, as most of us assumed he would with that trade, Ebbet wouldn't be playing. Sedin-Kesler-Roy-Lapierre-Ebbet-Schroeder.

Same thing for Barker. Edler, Garrison, Hamhuis, Bieksa, Tanev, Ballard, Alberts, BARKER. So yeah, when guys get hurt (Bieksa, Tanev) or healthy scratched (Edler, Garrison, Hamhuis) we'll see Barker. He wouldn't play on a healthy back end.

Point being (again): why would we trade Luongo for players we don't need?


We've needed a better center than Ebbett all year, and having an additional scoring threat during the playoffs is certainly something that we can use.
If we get into the Conference finals and don't lose anybody to injuries, then you'll be right.
If we lose in the first two rounds due to lack of depth, or because of too many injuries, then having additional quality players would be sorely missed.

An additional R-shooting D man with some scoring skill can't help either.


Island Nucklehead wrote:
First off, Roy isn't a 3rd line center, a salary of $5 or $5.5 mil + puts him in 2nd line center territory, and 1st line on some teams.


No shit. But on this team he's third. Sedin and Kesler are both better at the Centre position.


Yep, but I don't see how we can keep two 2nd line centers, that's the dilemma going into next season.

Second, the comparison is rather useless. Maybe we should also point out that Bozak isn't as good as Crosby or Ovechkin?
It isn't a matter of Roy OR Bozak, we could have gotten both, or neither.
The question is what we could get back in return for Lu, and what would be better for the team.
Had we gotten Bozak & Franson for Lu (as was rumored) there's no reason why we couldn't ALSO get Roy as a rental, to make a really solid push in the playoffs.


Why is the Roy/Bozak comparison useless? These were both players that could have been targetted by the Canucks as deadline pickups.[/quote]

My point was that we would have been better off trading for him at the beginning of the season, not at the deadline.

Getting Roy as a rental was a decent trade, having Roy AND Bozak would have been better than Roy & Ebbett, that was my point.

The other factor is this, had we moved Lu's contract at the beginning of the season, we could have made some offer sheets or signed UFAs this summer when some quality players will be looking to move. Unless Lu's contract can be moved quickly then our hands are tied.


Who? Luongo will more than likely go at the draft, well before UFA or offer sheet season. Even if when we do move him, chances are we're not going to have the cap space to compete for any of the bigger names.[/quote]

No, I actually don't think we have a great need for top 6 or top 4 players, but we need some better supporting cast.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:46 am

Zamboni Driver wrote:Roy does look good with Kesler & Higgins though, I'd just like to see an upgrade of Ebbett.

We've needed a better center than Ebbett all year, and having an additional scoring threat during the playoffs is certainly something that we can use.
If we get into the Conference finals and don't lose anybody to injuries, then you'll be right.
If we lose in the first two rounds due to lack of depth, or because of too many injuries, then having additional quality players would be sorely missed.

An additional R-shooting D man with some scoring skill can't help either.

My point was that we would have been better off trading for him at the beginning of the season, not at the deadline.

Getting Roy as a rental was a decent trade, having Roy AND Bozak would have been better than Roy & Ebbett, that was my point.


All these points completely forget that there is a salary cap in the NHL.

The Canucks were on the verge of cap trouble all season. We knew Kesler would be out for a while, so while we could have added someone using his LTIR, we'd have to get under the cap when he returned. Booth's injury is what allowed us to go get Roy. Even towards the end of the season we saw Ebbett over Schroeder most likely because he was cheaper.

Depth is the key thing here. We can't just add whoever we want whenever we want. Are we in trouble if some of these guys wind up playing critical minutes for us? Absolutely. But it's the same for any team.

Adding Roy, Bozak and Franson would be great if we didn't have the salary cap or the roster limit (or backup goalie) to worry about.
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Re: Trade Deadline Day Trades and Rumours

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:13 am

All of us have known for some time that sooner or later more of our younger players need to step up for us to be cap competitive. Tanev is the only real player from our younger players. Kassian is on the edge and has been for the most part a daily player. We needed more from JS this year and according to AV we didn't get it. Corrodo seems like he is on the verge of being able to do that and next year may be his season to break into the line up. If he can do that then next year we will have both he and Tanev on very good cap hits.

Up front we will likely lose Booth and Raymond. We need a couple of younger players to be good enough to fit into the line up.And we need one of our goalies to be ready for back up duty.

MG has said repeatedly, and I believe him but call me stupid, that he could have traded Luongo a number of times if he was willing to take cap and term back. He could not afford to do that moving forward.


So while I agree it would have been ideal to trade Luongo at the start of the season I just don't know if a deal was there. We have a lot of rumours but nothing of substance. People say we could have had Bozak and Franssen but I have also heard that the Leafs wanted us to take cap and term along with anything else we got. But since I don't know what MG was offered I choose to believe him when he says there wasn't a deal there.
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