So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:12 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Luongo can demand a trade year 7 or 8 which I think is after next season. Maybe the next one. In any event if he demands a trade the Canucks must accommodate. I don't know how the small details work but it is a risk since he has already stated he would prefer to be closer to his family back east. I don't know if his wife and kids made the trip to Vancouver this year. But I know that when things started to blow up his wife had returned to Florida with the kids. This coincided with Cory "stealing" the number one job in the LA playoffs series.

So I guess it depends upon whether Luongo really does want to stay if he is again the number one or if he still wants to get to the East somehow. Only he and his family know for sure but what I hear is he loves Vancouver, yes he wants to be a number one, but he still wants to get back east, preferably a Florida team. Whether that is enough for him to demand a trade when he contractually is able to I don't know but I think that is the risk with him right now.

I would trust that MG has had these conversations with Luongo and probably has a pretty good idea of what Luongo is thinking.

The complication for the Canucks is Lack injury and surgery. It could take him a year or two to get back to top performance, see Ray Emory. So their plan to trade Cory and have Lack back up is off the rails but I think the plan was to trade Cory, play Lack and Luongo and then go from there. At the trade deadline last year there were inquiries about Luongo which the Canucks entertained, that and the family situation and the Cory situation I think made Luongo start to consider leaving earlier. In fact I would venture that given Luongo's family situation that may have been a precipitating factor in them changing direction and thinking about keeping Cory.

Cory has not been lights out this year and we can see some of the warts in his game. I feel more confident with Luongo in net this year than with Cory but I'm banking on it being a result of the shortened season and the platooning of goalies. I'd still trade Luongo over Cory but then again if trading Cory gets us what we need then I guess you go that route and that still gives you at least one more year with Luongo. After that....Who knows.



All of which makes me think either one as trade material is fine with me as long as we get back what we need.

The trouble is though like the Bure trade, what comes back is not going to be as good as one would hope, so a Stastney, an underacheiver but untouchable otherwise, a la Mike Richards might be the ticket...

BTW ...what are we 8 games away from the deadline?
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Meds » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:21 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Cory has not been lights out this year and we can see some of the warts in his game. I feel more confident with Luongo in net this year than with Cory but I'm banking on it being a result of the shortened season and the platooning of goalies. I'd still trade Luongo over Cory but then again if trading Cory gets us what we need then I guess you go that route and that still gives you at least one more year with Luongo. After that....Who knows.


I'm not sure what these "warts" are in Schneider's game.....

His puck handling is poor, but no worse than Lou's was when he first showed up here from Florida. So that could be considered one wart.

He had a bad game to start the year against Anaheim, but outside of that the guy has been good. He's stolen plenty of single points for the club this year. In the games we've lost with him in net most of the goals have been the result of the team bailing on him like they are thinking about really improving on their stroke count this year after all the extra practice they got last spring. Those games for Cory are no different than Lou's game in Detroit. Watching the way Cory has held the Canucks in games this year in multiple slow starts, I think his numbers reflect a starting goalie who fits in somewhere among the 10-20 range in the league, but his actual play is much better than that. Most top goaltenders can attribute some of their all-star stats to the defense in front of them. Cory hasn't gotten any help from his team this year.

I really do think that the Canucks play way better in front of their "backup" goaltender.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Strangelove » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:28 pm

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/02/27/canucks-goaltender-cory-schneider-takes-blame-for-loss-its-getting-ridiculous/

Those numbers had Schneider describing himself as an average goalie of late.

“It’s getting ridiculous,” he said after the loss to Phoenix. “Three or four games in a row giving up three goals or more and you know, I don’t care if they were nice goals or guys wide open, it doesn’t matter.

“You’ve got to make some big saves to give your team a chance to at least get a point. I’ve got to be better, I’ve got to find a way to get back to one or two goals a game like we’re used to and right now it’s just not happening and I’ve got to figure out why.

“We worked hard enough to win tonight I thought. It wasn’t a Picasso, but we had the effort and we could have won that game and I’m just getting sick of giving up three goals a night and playing like an OK goalie and not the goalie that I know I can be and that my teammates expect me to be.”


:drink:
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:41 pm

Strangelove wrote:
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/02/27/canucks-goaltender-cory-schneider-takes-blame-for-loss-its-getting-ridiculous/

Those numbers had Schneider describing himself as an average goalie of late.

“It’s getting ridiculous,” he said after the loss to Phoenix. “Three or four games in a row giving up three goals or more and you know, I don’t care if they were nice goals or guys wide open, it doesn’t matter.

“You’ve got to make some big saves to give your team a chance to at least get a point. I’ve got to be better, I’ve got to find a way to get back to one or two goals a game like we’re used to and right now it’s just not happening and I’ve got to figure out why.

“We worked hard enough to win tonight I thought. It wasn’t a Picasso, but we had the effort and we could have won that game and I’m just getting sick of giving up three goals a night and playing like an OK goalie and not the goalie that I know I can be and that my teammates expect me to be.”


:drink:


Nice...
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Lancer » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:18 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Luongo can demand a trade year 7 or 8 which I think is after next season. Maybe the next one. In any event if he demands a trade the Canucks must accommodate. I don't know how the small details work but it is a risk since he has already stated he would prefer to be closer to his family back east. I don't know if his wife and kids made the trip to Vancouver this year. But I know that when things started to blow up his wife had returned to Florida with the kids. This coincided with Cory "stealing" the number one job in the LA playoffs series.

So I guess it depends upon whether Luongo really does want to stay if he is again the number one or if he still wants to get to the East somehow. Only he and his family know for sure but what I hear is he loves Vancouver, yes he wants to be a number one, but he still wants to get back east, preferably a Florida team. Whether that is enough for him to demand a trade when he contractually is able to I don't know but I think that is the risk with him right now.

I would trust that MG has had these conversations with Luongo and probably has a pretty good idea of what Luongo is thinking.

The complication for the Canucks is Lack injury and surgery. It could take him a year or two to get back to top performance, see Ray Emory. So their plan to trade Cory and have Lack back up is off the rails but I think the plan was to trade Cory, play Lack and Luongo and then go from there. At the trade deadline last year there were inquiries about Luongo which the Canucks entertained, that and the family situation and the Cory situation I think made Luongo start to consider leaving earlier. In fact I would venture that given Luongo's family situation that may have been a precipitating factor in them changing direction and thinking about keeping Cory.

Cory has not been lights out this year and we can see some of the warts in his game. I feel more confident with Luongo in net this year than with Cory but I'm banking on it being a result of the shortened season and the platooning of goalies. I'd still trade Luongo over Cory but then again if trading Cory gets us what we need then I guess you go that route and that still gives you at least one more year with Luongo. After that....Who knows.


Well that does open things up a tad, no? I was under the impression that, no offense to a team he no doubt quite likes, he was a goner one way or another this season due to his family and all. If he is willing to stick it out another couple of years until his contractually-offered trade window opens up... that's worth considering if he keeps up his play. Even if he forces Gillis' hand at that time and Gillis doesn't get much in return, the situation may be different: The team may have won a Cup, the Twins may well be at the end of their prime, and Lack may be ready to take the reins.

Whole lotta ifs there, but if his play and mindset are such that he becomes the more viable option then Gillis could have a field-day either at the deadline or this summer. Still, Luongo's cap hit will be a huge one to swallow vice Ginger's. Next year's cap may have as much or more of a say as to which goalie goes than any other factor.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:20 am

Re: Luongo contract

Okay so according to cap geek:

Known Clauses: Full NTC (Exception 1: Player can supply five-team trade list following final game of 2013-14, valid through July 15, 2014; Exception 2: If player does not submit trade list as documented in Exception 1, team can request a five-team trade list following final game of 2017-18 season, valid through Sept. 1, 2018. If player submitted a trade list in 2014 and was not moved, team loses right to request trade list in 2018.)


I read the above as the Canucks are obligated to try to work a deal with any of the 5 teams on the list but IF a deal is not worked out then the Canucks lose their trade window a few years later...

This says to me the guy is under contract and can't force the Canucks into a no win situation in 2014/15

So I don't see that whether he "wants to be here " should be much of a consideration when choosing between Schneider and Luongo....

Gillis should decide on which trade makes the most sense for the team not the player...
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Jovocop » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:32 am

ukcanuck wrote:Re: Luongo contract

Okay so according to cap geek:

Known Clauses: Full NTC (Exception 1: Player can supply five-team trade list following final game of 2013-14, valid through July 15, 2014; Exception 2: If player does not submit trade list as documented in Exception 1, team can request a five-team trade list following final game of 2017-18 season, valid through Sept. 1, 2018. If player submitted a trade list in 2014 and was not moved, team loses right to request trade list in 2018.)


I read the above as the Canucks are obligated to try to work a deal with any of the 5 teams on the list but IF a deal is not worked out then the Canucks lose their trade window a few years later...

This says to me the guy is under contract and can't force the Canucks into a no win situation in 2014/15

So I don't see that whether he "wants to be here " should be much of a consideration when choosing between Schneider and Luongo....

Gillis should decide on which trade makes the most sense for the team not the player...


Luongo is a professional athlete. No doubt in my mind that he would honour the contract and stay if he is forced to. However, if he truly wants to be in the East with his family, it might be the best for the Canucks, Luongo, Luongo's family and Schneider by moving Luongo. It might not be a distraction for a short period of time but it might be in a long run.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:09 am

Personally I think all that stuff is a wash,
The bottom line is who do we have faith in, in a game six and seven?

Luongo has shit the bed

Schneider hasn't

However, have things changed with Schneider not exactly burning the house down and Luongo seemingly being able to better handle the off ice shit that was his suicide in the Boston series?


Here's what I remember about Luongo, him coming in cold against the hawks when Schneider had that pulled groin/hamstring/dehydration issue and stoning the hawks in game seven overtime...that was clutch, he's capable...IMHO.

Schneider on the other hand has done well too but being the back up is being the back up...
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby herb » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:14 am

If I'm in charge of any organization, I don't want to hang onto a guy who wants the hell out of dodge.

Doesn't matter what the reason is, or the background, or even how professional the employee may be. Sooner or later things are going to come to a head if Luongo is personally and professionally unhappy with being a Vancouver Canuck. It probably won't be this year because of the lockout and shortened season, but if Luongo wants out, I think management has to find a way to move him for the betterment of the team.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:50 pm

ukcanuck wrote:Re: Luongo contract

Okay so according to cap geek:

Known Clauses: Full NTC (Exception 1: Player can supply five-team trade list following final game of 2013-14, valid through July 15, 2014; Exception 2: If player does not submit trade list as documented in Exception 1, team can request a five-team trade list following final game of 2017-18 season, valid through Sept. 1, 2018. If player submitted a trade list in 2014 and was not moved, team loses right to request trade list in 2018.)


I read the above as the Canucks are obligated to try to work a deal with any of the 5 teams on the list but IF a deal is not worked out then the Canucks lose their trade window a few years later...

This says to me the guy is under contract and can't force the Canucks into a no win situation in 2014/15

So I don't see that whether he "wants to be here " should be much of a consideration when choosing between Schneider and Luongo....

Gillis should decide on which trade makes the most sense for the team not the player...



Thanks for doing the spade work and finding that one. This to me then changes the dynamic somewhat. If Luongo is content to stay as long as he is the number one then it puts MG in total control over who he should trade.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby BigTuna » Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:54 pm

[quote="Jovocop"][quote="BigTuna"][quote="Reefer2"][quote="BigTuna"] Bad prediction. You guys wish you'd get a player as good as Kadri back for Luongo. Not going to happen.[/quote]

One season does not make a player, he could sheet the bed next year and be nothing.[/quote]

He certainly will never be "Nothing".[/quote]

Jim Carey (Vezina Trophy winner) is calling.[/quote]

Why are you bringing up Jim Carey? He actually had a good career given expectations. Kadri on the other hand, was a 7th overall pick and was a terrific player at every level before going to the NHL. This was expected of it.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Uncle dans leg » Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:56 pm

Luongo for Clemmensen & Floridas 1st rounder :wink:




as of Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:31 AM.
NHL
Rank Team GP W L OT ROW PTS GF GA Home Away Last 10 Streak
1 Chicago 29 24 2 3 20 51 100 62 11-1-1 13-1-2 8-2-0 Won 3
2 Anaheim 28 21 3 4 16 46 95 69 12-1-0 9-2-4 7-0-3 Won 1
3 Pittsburgh 31 23 8 0 21 46 110 81 11-4-0 12-4-0 10-0-0 Won 10
4 Montreal 29 19 5 5 17 43 92 73 9-3-3 10-2-2 7-1-2 OT 1
5 Boston 28 19 6 3 16 41 82 60 10-2-1 9-4-2 5-4-1 Lost 2
6 Ottawa 30 16 8 6 13 38 77 65 10-1-3 6-7-3 4-2-4 Won 3
7 Los Angeles 29 17 10 2 16 36 88 73 12-2-1 5-8-1 7-3-0 Won 3
8 Minnesota 28 16 10 2 13 34 73 69 10-3-1 6-7-1 7-3-0 Won 3
9 St. Louis 29 16 11 2 14 34 87 83 8-5-1 8-6-1 6-4-0 Lost 1
10 Vancouver 29 14 9 6 11 34 81 82 8-5-3 6-4-3 4-4-2 Won 1
11 Winnipeg 30 16 12 2 15 34 80 86 7-6-0 9-6-2 6-3-1 Won 1
12 Detroit 29 14 10 5 12 33 78 75 9-4-3 5-6-2 5-3-2 Won 2
13 Carolina 29 15 12 2 15 32 84 82 7-7-0 8-5-2 5-4-1 Lost 1
14 Toronto 29 15 12 2 15 32 86 83 6-6-2 9-6-0 4-4-2 OT 1
15 NY Rangers 29 15 12 2 12 32 70 70 10-5-1 5-7-1 6-4-0 Won 2
16 New Jersey 30 13 11 6 11 32 74 84 9-5-2 4-6-4 3-5-2 Lost 2
17 San Jose 28 12 10 6 8 30 67 74 8-1-4 4-9-2 3-4-3 Lost 2
18 Phoenix 30 13 13 4 10 30 79 85 10-5-1 3-8-3 4-5-1 Lost 2
19 Columbus 30 12 12 6 8 30 68 79 9-4-5 3-8-1 7-0-3 Won 2
20 Dallas 28 13 12 3 12 29 73 84 6-6-2 7-6-1 4-4-2 Won 1
21 NY Islanders 29 13 13 3 11 29 86 96 5-9-2 8-4-1 5-3-2 Lost 1
22 Edmonton 28 11 11 6 9 28 69 81 5-4-3 6-7-3 4-4-2 Won 1
23 Nashville 30 11 13 6 9 28 70 81 6-2-4 5-11-2 2-7-1 Lost 4
24 Tampa Bay 29 13 15 1 13 27 96 86 8-7-1 5-8-0 4-6-0 Won 2
25 Philadelphia 30 13 16 1 12 27 81 92 9-4-1 4-12-0 4-6-0 Lost 1
26 Calgary 27 11 12 4 11 26 78 91 8-5-2 3-7-2 4-5-1 Lost 1
27 Buffalo 30 11 15 4 8 26 79 95 5-6-2 6-9-2 4-3-3 Won 1
28 Washington 29 12 16 1 12 25 79 87 8-7-0 4-9-1 5-5-0 Lost 1
29 Colorado 28 10 14 4 9 24 71 89 8-5-1 2-9-3 3-6-1 Lost 4
30 Florida 30 8 16 6 7 22 74 110 4-8-5 4-8-1 2-7-1 Won 1
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby BigTuna » Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:02 pm

Florida and every other team has no interest in Luongo.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Uncle dans leg » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:01 pm

Farhan Lalji ‏@FarhanLaljiTSN
Gillman on #Luongo trade talks: "Mike is in discussions with multiple teams... Talks are beyond the 'tire kicking' stage" #canucks

Farhan Lalji ‏@FarhanLaljiTSN
More Gillman: "We need a 3rd line center, but no one is going to 'steal' Roberto from us. We're not moving him ...
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Diehard1 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:36 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:Farhan Lalji ‏@FarhanLaljiTSN
Gillman on #Luongo trade talks: "Mike is in discussions with multiple teams... Talks are beyond the 'tire kicking' stage" #canucks

Farhan Lalji ‏@FarhanLaljiTSN
More Gillman: "We need a 3rd line center, but no one is going to 'steal' Roberto from us. We're not moving him ...


Interesting - my guess is that it's not Toronto they are talking with but Florida. Just a gut feeling. Would love to see it happen but I'm still pessimistic he will be moved.
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