What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:54 am

It's a tough question - you've got guys like Raymond, Higgins, Lappy who all have some value, though in Lappy's case probably not a ton. You've then got guys like Ebbett, Pinizzotto, Alberts and Barker who don't have as much value but might fetch something in return.

The issue Gillis is going to have is their cap space for next season - even if one of Booth/Ballard are gone along with Lu, you likely don't have the room to sign more than one or two of these guys, especially the higher end ones.

If I'm Gillis I have already found out what these guys will sign for moving forward, and if it doesn't fit into the cap structure they are gone before the deadline for futures. I'd then use those futures to improve the team for this year, along with something extra you could probably get a very good player or two in return.

Lots of moving pieces for the Nucks this deadline, for whatever reason I have a feeling Gillis is going to do something pretty big that none of us see coming.
Diehard1
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:48 am

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby dbr » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:23 am

I think it all depends on what happens with some of the other contract situations on the team.

Move Roberto Luongo for a player on an entry level contract (among other assets), deal Keith Ballard and David Booth and you're looking at a very different situation here, ample room to re-sign everyone.

If the Luongo deal is for another guy with a considerable salary then we're talking more about playing hardball with these guys and hanging onto the ones making the lowest amount possible.

I'd try to exploit any feelings of loyalty these guys have, any flexibility they might be willing to offer with the upcoming cap crunch, and lock them in for a couple years if possible at a pretty low salary.

I think a player like Mason Raymond could do quite well in free agency (compared to what we'd like to be paying him) so he might be a goner.

As for moving players at the deadline - it would be nice to acquire a handful of second and third round picks but I don't think that's how things play out. I think you are talking more about a handful of third and fourth rounders (who may or may not contribute to your roster years from now), and you are talking about a franchise that sees itself among the league's elite giving up on this season at the 3/4 mark. It's just not going to happen.
dbr
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:57 am

dbr wrote:I think it all depends on what happens with some of the other contract situations on the team.

Move Roberto Luongo for a player on an entry level contract (among other assets), deal Keith Ballard and David Booth and you're looking at a very different situation here, ample room to re-sign everyone.

If the Luongo deal is for another guy with a considerable salary then we're talking more about playing hardball with these guys and hanging onto the ones making the lowest amount possible.

I'd try to exploit any feelings of loyalty these guys have, any flexibility they might be willing to offer with the upcoming cap crunch, and lock them in for a couple years if possible at a pretty low salary.

I think a player like Mason Raymond could do quite well in free agency (compared to what we'd like to be paying him) so he might be a goner.

As for moving players at the deadline - it would be nice to acquire a handful of second and third round picks but I don't think that's how things play out. I think you are talking more about a handful of third and fourth rounders (who may or may not contribute to your roster years from now), and you are talking about a franchise that sees itself among the league's elite giving up on this season at the 3/4 mark. It's just not going to happen.


I'm not advocating giving up at all - just the opposite actually. I'm suggesting you use guys like Higgins and Raymond, if they aren't going to re-sign for dollars that make sense, to gain some assets you can use to get somebody else. A guy like Derek Roy for example, supposedly the asking price is a good prospect and a 2nd rounder - if you traded Raymond for something similar and then traded Schroeder and a 2nd for Roy I wouldn't mind at all. You get an upgrade now at a position you need and you keep your future intact.

I'm not sure why more GMs don't do this, I understand you need the depth but it sure would make it easier to upgrade your team over the long term.
Diehard1
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:48 am

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby dbr » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:33 am

Ahh I see. Yeah I would definitely categorize moving veteran players for picks as giving up on the season, but if the plan is to turn around and move picks and prospects for other veterans then I see where you're coming from.

I just don't know how much horse-trading is going to occur this year and I think you kind of have to bank on a lot of it to think you're going to be able to flip one of your impending UFAs for a couple of assets, then turn around and flip those assets or another player or something else to improve your roster elsewhere.

I'd love to move Raymond and a little something and get a top six center but I don't think that's going to happen personally.

I'd expect that if the Caps and/or Stars are coming to terms with losing guys they just acquired they are probably going to try to recoup their investments in those guys and then some, and given the trade deadline insanity (2 2nds for Douglas fucking Murray? :crazy: ) I bet they can get it.

A guy like Raymond or Higgins is valuable to be sure but they aren't in that category of player (top 9 center, top four defenseman) that is chronically overpriced at the deadline.

To me personally, if this is the year and you want to pay deadline prices for a 2nd line center then you might as well just give up picks that you've already got, keep all the depth you can and make your run with every player that you can.

If a playoff run goes well and the inevitable injuries occur, I'd rather have guys like Mason Raymond (who can actually in theory produce some offense) playing on my third line than guys like Weise or Sestito.
dbr
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2469
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby The_Pauser » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:41 am

I would probably look to move Higgins and Raymond for high draft picks. Preferably 1st round picks (with the lack of sellers this year I don't see this as being too unrealistic). We have too many holes up front to be considered legit contenders.
The_Pauser
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:21 pm
Location: Surrey, BC

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:03 am

Well I guess if two holes up front is too many .... then yes I guess they have too many holes.
Tell me how my ass tastes.
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2990
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:09 am

The_Pauser wrote:I would probably look to move Higgins and Raymond for high draft picks. Preferably 1st round picks (with the lack of sellers this year I don't see this as being too unrealistic). We have too many holes up front to be considered legit contenders.



That will never happen.

If anything the Canucks will be looking to add at the deadline.

P.S. Raymond and Higgens would never bring back first rounders as rentals.
Potatoe1
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1613
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:35 am

The_Pauser wrote:I would probably look to move Higgins and Raymond for high draft picks. Preferably 1st round picks (with the lack of sellers this year I don't see this as being too unrealistic). We have too many holes up front to be considered legit contenders.


People need to get over this - the Canucks are contenders, plain and simple. They are 6th overall in the league and have had injury issues from hell, they've got an extra top notch goalie to sell and they are still waiting for their best 2 way forward to play while injury free.

Plug Kes back into the lineup and this team matches up with almost anybody, though they still need another experienced center on the 3rd line and could use an upgrade on the wings. Lots of pieces to do it with, it just depends whether or not those pieces fit with what other teams are looking for.
Diehard1
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:48 am

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby The_Pauser » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:57 am

Diehard1 wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:I would probably look to move Higgins and Raymond for high draft picks. Preferably 1st round picks (with the lack of sellers this year I don't see this as being too unrealistic). We have too many holes up front to be considered legit contenders.


People need to get over this - the Canucks are contenders, plain and simple. They are 6th overall in the league and have had injury issues from hell, they've got an extra top notch goalie to sell and they are still waiting for their best 2 way forward to play while injury free.

Plug Kes back into the lineup and this team matches up with almost anybody, though they still need another experienced center on the 3rd line and could use an upgrade on the wings. Lots of pieces to do it with, it just depends whether or not those pieces fit with what other teams are looking for.


The Canucks were the top regular season team in the league last year and ended up getting bounced in 5 games in the first round. Just because we are 6th in the NHL this year at this moment in time doesn't mean we're legit contenders. This team has too many holes up front, too many problems, too much lack of scoring, we would be lucky to get out of round 1.
The_Pauser
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:21 pm
Location: Surrey, BC

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Zamboni Driver » Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:38 am

Potatoe1 wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:I would probably look to move Higgins and Raymond for high draft picks. Preferably 1st round picks (with the lack of sellers this year I don't see this as being too unrealistic). We have too many holes up front to be considered legit contenders.


That will never happen.
If anything the Canucks will be looking to add at the deadline.
P.S. Raymond and Higgens would never bring back first rounders as rentals.


Thank you Potatoe for that sensible comment. ;)

The_Pauser wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:People need to get over this - the Canucks are contenders, plain and simple.


The Canucks were the top regular season team in the league last year and ended up getting bounced in 5 games in the first round. Just because we are 6th in the NHL this year at this moment in time doesn't mean we're legit contenders. This team has too many holes up front, too many problems, too much lack of scoring, we would be lucky to get out of round 1.


Isn't that what they said about the LA Kings last year?

Who are the top teams from this year & last year?

LA? Can't score and Quick looking pretty ordinary?
Pens? - They crashed and burned last playoffs WITH the great (grate?) Sid Crosby. Same guy still in net.
Chicago? This is the same lineup that went on a 9 game losing streak last year (not winless in 9, LOSING 9)
Rangers? Almost winning Prez trophy last year, now with superstars Nash, Richards & Gaborik might miss playoffs
Anaheim? They look good now but didn't even qualify last year with the same lineup.

With Raymond, Higgins, Hansen & Schroeder all playing well and with Kes back the top 8 look just fine. :hmmm:
Last edited by Zamboni Driver on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Zamboni Driver
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:24 pm

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:07 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:
The_Pauser wrote:I would probably look to move Higgins and Raymond for high draft picks. Preferably 1st round picks (with the lack of sellers this year I don't see this as being too unrealistic). We have too many holes up front to be considered legit contenders.


People need to get over this - the Canucks are contenders, plain and simple. They are 6th overall in the league and have had injury issues from hell, they've got an extra top notch goalie to sell and they are still waiting for their best 2 way forward to play while injury free.

Plug Kes back into the lineup and this team matches up with almost anybody, though they still need another experienced center on the 3rd line and could use an upgrade on the wings. Lots of pieces to do it with, it just depends whether or not those pieces fit with what other teams are looking for.


The Canucks were the top regular season team in the league last year and ended up getting bounced in 5 games in the first round. Just because we are 6th in the NHL this year at this moment in time doesn't mean we're legit contenders. This team has too many holes up front, too many problems, too much lack of scoring, we would be lucky to get out of round 1.


Great - now you use the argument that we lost last year, so we will lose this year too. It's funny how people think winning once or losing once means you are doomed to repeat it. This team has holes because of injury by and large, add a 3rd line center and maybe another dman and all of a sudden they have very few holes.

By your logic who is a contender? Certainly not Pittsburgh, they lost in the 1st round last year. How about the Hawks? Nope, 1st round loss. Bruins? 1st round loss. By your logic the only real contenders are the Rangers (who will be lucky to make the playoffs), the Devils (ditto), Phoenix (who won't make the playoffs) and the Kings (finally, found a real contender).

Losing one year doesn't mean you'll do the same next year. There's zero reason to believe the Nucks have missed their shot, they should be adding and reinforcing the team in the next week.
Diehard1
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:48 am

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Zamboni Driver » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:11 pm

Diehard1 wrote:It's a tough question - you've got guys like Raymond, Higgins, Lappy who all have some value, though in Lappy's case probably not a ton. You've then got guys like Ebbett, Pinizzotto, Alberts and Barker who don't have as much value but might fetch something in return.

The issue Gillis is going to have is their cap space for next season - even if one of Booth/Ballard are gone along with Lu, you likely don't have the room to sign more than one or two of these guys, especially the higher end ones.


To heck with that...

Gillis needs to move Luongo, and either Booth & Ballard either get traded for peanuts or else bought out.

Payroll is then 46.57 mil for Sedins, Kes, Schneids, Burrows, Hansen, Kassian, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Garrison & Edler

That leaves 17.73 mil for the rest.

Take Shroeder, Higgins, Raymond & Lappierre = 6.175 mil
Say we have to give 'em all an average of a 40% raise = 8.65 mil. I think they understand that the Cap is coming down, there isn't a big payday for 2nd/3rd line tweener guys this year. Give them only a two year deal if need be, and a better contract after that if they continue to earn it.

17.73 - 8.65 = $9.08 million left
We'd still need a bottom pair D, a backup, 2 x 4th line wingers and at least 1 "spare"

Lets say Tanev signs at $1.9 mil, Lack is @ 0.85, Jensen is @ 0.895 and either Weise or Sestito sign @ about 0.75 = 4.15 mil
9.08 - 4.15 = 4.99 mil

Now with $4.93 mil remaining, you could have 1 spare player + keep either Ballard or Booth.
It would however mean only 21 on the NHL roster, so we'd have to scrape through next year with AHL callups and LTIR when needed

If Aquaman is willing to take the hit and buyout BOTH Booth & Ballard it frees up 4.2 to get another 3rd line center & a bottom pairing D, giving you 22 on the active roster.
User avatar
Zamboni Driver
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 432
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:24 pm

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby vic » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:34 pm

Zamboni Driver wrote:LA? Can't score and Quick looking pretty ordinary?
Pens? - They crashed and burned last playoffs WITH the great (grate?) Sid Crosby. Same guy still in net.
Chicago? This is the same lineup that went on a 9 game losing streak last year (not winless in 9, LOSING 9)
Rangers? Almost winning Prez trophy last year, now with superstars Nash, Richards & Gaborik might miss playoffs
Anaheim? They look good now but didn't even qualify last year with the same lineup.



LA - New coach, essentially same roster win cup
Pens - New coach, essentially same roster win cup
Chicago - 2nd year coach, essentially same roster when they won the cup
Rangers - Current 3rd year coach but new players, team in decline
Anaheim - Currently 2nd year coach, essentially same roster, one of the favorites to win the cup

AV is in his 6th (7th)? Year with the Canucks, his expiring contract never should have been extended.
User avatar
vic
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 411
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 5:29 pm

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby The_Pauser » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:38 pm

LA had scoring problems last year so they went out and picked up Jeff Carter. We have had scoring problems in the playoffs for two years now and we're looking at guys like Nate Thompson to save us.

Pittsburgh had problems with giving up too many goals so they went out and picked up another defensive defenseman, and a gritty defensively responsible winger. See the trend? Teams that address their problems win, while teams like Vancouver who ignore their problems lose.
The_Pauser
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 329
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:21 pm
Location: Surrey, BC

Re: What does Gillis do with the expiring contracts?

Postby Reefer2 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:03 pm

The_Pauser wrote:LA had scoring problems last year so they went out and picked up Jeff Carter. We have had scoring problems in the playoffs for two years now and we're looking at guys like Nate Thompson to save us.

Pittsburgh had problems with giving up too many goals so they went out and picked up another defensive defenseman, and a gritty defensively responsible winger. See the trend? Teams that address their problems win, while teams like Vancouver who ignore their problems lose.


+1

2 years in a row we had trouble scoring (in the playoffs) for what ever reason and our biggest off season signing was another high priced D Man.
User avatar
Reefer2
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 965
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:47 am

Next

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests