Has AV's time come?

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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Tiger » Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:57 pm

Jovocop wrote:
Tiger wrote:hmm so we blame the coach for the lousy production of the PP?? ( thought that was Newell Browns job? ) ..


Isn't Newell Brown part of the coaching team? AV is in charge of the overall coaching. He could force Brown to change the PP units if things don't work out. With Edler out, Garrison has performed well in the first power play unit. With Edler back on Tuesday, I am almost 100% sure that Edler will be back on the first unit even though he is not performing.


Last time I looked Newell Brown was a Gillis hiring...You think AV can bypass his boss Gillis ? :).. Garrison has done great but the Sedin's still suck on the PP.. Neither using Edler or Garrison will change that.. Maybe Med's suggestion of benching Daniel? But as we have no replacement forwards that seems impossible. Again , Av has done wonders the last 4 games ... Yeah if gillis wasn't a stubborn irishman Newell Brown would be gone..
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby dbr » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:25 am

Tiger wrote:Last time I looked Newell Brown was a Gillis hiring...You think AV can bypass his boss Gillis ?


So is AV.

You can't seriously think that a. the head coach doesn't exercise some level of control over his assistants and that b. even if he does not, if he went to the GM that he'd find out he's hamstrung trying to make coaching decisions for his own team by a coach underneath him?

While I am at it..

Tiger wrote:So lets examine with something other than rose collored glasses exactly what AV has to work with ( Yeah the Dude has a point )..
a #1 line that is producing at about 1/2 what it used to...
No #2 line.. Booth, Kesler both out..


What colour glasses does it take to see a 25% drop in production (from their peak in 2010-11, less than 10% drop from last year) as "about 1/2"?

In fact at even strength their production has only decreased about 10-15% during that time. During that time games in the west have become notably tighter, we've seen suffocating defensive teams achieve great success and it's no surprise that scorers in this conference are not thriving.

The powerplay production has dropped by about half from the high water mark to this year but 2/5 of that powerplay have been removed so it's to be expected they are hampered right now..

Anyway I actually agree that the coaching staff does not have a lot to work with, they have a first line and beyond that injuries have decimated the forward group this season, couple that with the gamble Mike Gillis took down the middle and it's a pretty ugly lineup AV has to ice every night.

That being said, for the "AV's time has come" folks it's as much about a lack of success over what, seven years now as it is about a lack of success right now. Or it's about how it is time for a new voice in the room. Or it's not about results at all and they've hated AV for years.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby RoyalDude » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:49 am

Man, with Gillis shatting the bed, ya think he gives the coaching staff a massive bonus for saving his arse this season? It's crazy shit that AV and staff has managed a decent record this season with a ramshackle group of players provided by Gillis.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby coco_canuck » Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:44 am

I've barely visited the corner the past couple of months, but I've missed nothing. I could have parachuted in after the season and I'd get the same regurgitated bullshit from the same people.

One trick ponies not by choice, but by physical limitations.


Anyways, I have no issue with replacing AV with the right guy, but mid-season firings typically don't work out and the search for a new coach won't be thorough and complete.

There's scuttlebutt that Mike Babcock maybe on the outs in Detroit after this season and there's now a ton of pressure on Dan Bylsma.

See how the playoffs shake out, and if it's time to can AV in the summer there might be a better list of coaches available to replace him.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:05 am

coco_canuck wrote:I've barely visited the corner the past couple of months, but I've missed nothing. I could have parachuted in after the season and I'd get the same regurgitated bullshit from the same people.

One trick ponies not by choice, but by physical limitations.


Anyways, I have no issue with replacing AV with the right guy, but mid-season firings typically don't work out and the search for a new coach won't be thorough and complete.

There's scuttlebutt that Mike Babcock maybe on the outs in Detroit after this season and there's now a ton of pressure on Dan Bylsma.

See how the playoffs shake out, and if it's time to can AV in the summer there might be a better list of coaches available to replace him.


That's interesting Babcock, what would have him in the way out in Detroit I wonder?
The effects of losing a Perennial Norris and instant Hall of Famer on the blue line maybe...

One could dream I suppose...
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Meds » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:27 pm

Tonight we watched the Vigneault gameplan get totally bottled up by the Sharks.

Sure we have injuries and are playing some plugs. No question that hurts us. But on offense it seemed like the Sharks moved the puck around the outside and across the middle, while the Canucks simply got pinned on the boards and generated nothing.

There were some chances on neutral zone turnovers, but Hansen and Juice couldn't capitalize. Higgins scored a nice one, but I'm sure Niemi would love to have that one back the same way Schneider would like to have Thornton's goal back.

Bottom line, San Jose was ready for everything we tried on offense.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Lancer » Tue Apr 02, 2013 5:20 pm

Meds wrote:Bottom line, San Jose was ready for everything we tried on offense.


I think most of the league has figured out the Canucks' offensive gameplan, but nobody on the coaching staff seems to have come up with anything new or innovative. In their heyday, the Canucks - especially the Twins - always had a new wrinkle play that would catch the opposition off-guard. Now, we just see the same old plays to no avail.

If the Canucks fail to at least get to the conference finals, especially if they just get by with super-human goaltending and the odd offensive chip-in, it's time for the coaching regime to get turfed. Great goaltending can mask a lot of inequities, but not for too long.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby rockjetty » Tue May 07, 2013 11:12 am

Lancer wrote:
Meds wrote:Bottom line, San Jose was ready for everything we tried on offense.


I think most of the league has figured out the Canucks' offensive gameplan, but nobody on the coaching staff seems to have come up with anything new or innovative. In their heyday, the Canucks - especially the Twins - always had a new wrinkle play that would catch the opposition off-guard. Now, we just see the same old plays to no avail.

If the Canucks fail to at least get to the conference finals, especially if they just get by with super-human goaltending and the odd offensive chip-in, it's time for the coaching regime to get turfed. Great goaltending can mask a lot of inequities, but not for too long.


Love it that this thread died after the last time we played the Sharks in the regular season on April 1st :baaa: April Fools indeed...

AV has his 3 strikes -- couldn't get it done in the finals, unprepared for last year's playoffs, and obviously unprepared for this year's. He has lost the room & the playoff demons that entered two years ago need to be exorcised. Hank's comments to the media before game 3 were very telling of how emotionally fragile they are as a team under AV's command.

In hindsight, it might have been wise to can AV after the finals fail. Hard to fire someone that just brought the team to their most successful run in nearly two decades, but from the January 8th, 2012 game (Boston), it was clear that the team was complacent and had already tuned AV out. That would have been the ideal time to replace him... Similar to when the Pens went to the finals in '08 and then switched coaches mid-'09 and went on to the cup finals to win it.

Last year there were excuses, but after the complacent lead up to the post season, regardless of the PoS Keith's elbow and other injuries, there was no excuse.

This year, the goalies have been great to avoid controversy, yet AV has stirred it up regardless. The goalies just can't win. Wrong move to start CS in game 3 -- controversy, rusty, Lou had played great, etc -- and then didn't pull CS when it was obvious his mental concentration had lapsed on the first softy in the 3rd. It was pretty clear to me that it was going to be like Lou in the last 5 min in Edmonton: losing focus and then not being able to stop anything. AV should have started the youngster for the Edmonton 3rd period just to give him some NHL game time if he was going to be backup for games 1 and 2, and let Lou get a little rest/not get injured before starting the playoffs.

Well, AV made his bed... Too bad all the bed wetters had a go at it first, and now he's got to sleep in it :lol: Gillis is culpable as well, as he should have canned AV during the stretch last year after the room tuned him out. Now Gillis is on a short leash & can only save himself by making the necessary changes.

I think this team can still get it done. I don't believe that the core is past its prime or that it lacks heart or talent. AV's systems have been tried & can't get it done. With re-alignment next year, the Canucks are not going to be as successful in the standings, plus add in adjustment to new coaching systems, but I wouldn't be surprised in making a deep run under a completely re-hauled coaching staff.

Now, time to win 4 in a row to add an exclamation point to AV's retirement party :D
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Arachnid » Tue May 07, 2013 11:59 am

rockjetty wrote:
Lancer wrote:
Meds wrote:Bottom line, San Jose was ready for everything we tried on offense.


I think most of the league has figured out the Canucks' offensive gameplan, but nobody on the coaching staff seems to have come up with anything new or innovative. In their heyday, the Canucks - especially the Twins - always had a new wrinkle play that would catch the opposition off-guard. Now, we just see the same old plays to no avail.

If the Canucks fail to at least get to the conference finals, especially if they just get by with super-human goaltending and the odd offensive chip-in, it's time for the coaching regime to get turfed. Great goaltending can mask a lot of inequities, but not for too long.


Love it that this thread died after the last time we played the Sharks in the regular season on April 1st :baaa: April Fools indeed...

AV has his 3 strikes -- couldn't get it done in the finals, unprepared for last year's playoffs, and obviously unprepared for this year's. He has lost the room & the playoff demons that entered two years ago need to be exorcised. Hank's comments to the media before game 3 were very telling of how emotionally fragile they are as a team under AV's command.

In hindsight, it might have been wise to can AV after the finals fail. Hard to fire someone that just brought the team to their most successful run in nearly two decades, but from the January 8th, 2012 game (Boston), it was clear that the team was complacent and had already tuned AV out. That would have been the ideal time to replace him... Similar to when the Pens went to the finals in '08 and then switched coaches mid-'09 and went on to the cup finals to win it.

Last year there were excuses, but after the complacent lead up to the post season, regardless of the PoS Keith's elbow and other injuries, there was no excuse.

This year, the goalies have been great to avoid controversy, yet AV has stirred it up regardless. The goalies just can't win. Wrong move to start CS in game 3 -- controversy, rusty, Lou had played great, etc -- and then didn't pull CS when it was obvious his mental concentration had lapsed on the first softy in the 3rd. It was pretty clear to me that it was going to be like Lou in the last 5 min in Edmonton: losing focus and then not being able to stop anything. AV should have started the youngster for the Edmonton 3rd period just to give him some NHL game time if he was going to be backup for games 1 and 2, and let Lou get a little rest/not get injured before starting the playoffs.

Well, AV made his bed... Too bad all the bed wetters had a go at it first, and now he's got to sleep in it :lol: Gillis is culpable as well, as he should have canned AV during the stretch last year after the room tuned him out. Now Gillis is on a short leash & can only save himself by making the necessary changes.

I think this team can still get it done. I don't believe that the core is past its prime or that it lacks heart or talent. AV's systems have been tried & can't get it done. With re-alignment next year, the Canucks are not going to be as successful in the standings, plus add in adjustment to new coaching systems, but I wouldn't be surprised in making a deep run under a completely re-hauled coaching staff.

Now, time to win 4 in a row to add an exclamation point to AV's retirement party :D


:lol: Cue the Save AV thread!

It's really funny that one of our most successful and winningest coaches in our sad pathetic history (do we all need that reminder of just how bad and for how long we sucked?!) is being put on a cross, on a boat and lit on fire, shipped down the Fraser...

Not saying it's not necessary, tuning out and stale game plans (shit) happens...maybe we get a Keenan type to clean house....saaaaaaay Mike... :D
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Jovocop » Tue May 07, 2013 12:07 pm

I am not a big fan of AV and believe that he should be fired last season after the LA series.

A few of his decisions that I can never understand:

1/ AV just kept playing Edler on the first powerplay unit despite his struggle. Garrison deserves some minutes in the first unit but hardly got a chance

2/ Having Bieksa with Edler paired together is just a plain bad idea. They both are high-risk high-reward type defensemen. They need a more defensive oriented partner to excel. Bieksa needs someone like Hamhuis to bail him out once in a blue moon. The same could be said about Edler.

3/ Ebbett is completely useless. He can hit nor providing any offense. Pinizzotto might not be anything better in terms of offense; however, he can bring some needed toughness to the lineup.

4/ Kassian played well enough with the Sedins, why could AV put him on the first line and free up Burrows to play with Kesler?

If the Canucks are going to lose in the first round, I hope that they could lose tonight. A short-time pain could be a long-term gain. This team definitely needs some new coaching ideas.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby ukcanuck » Tue May 07, 2013 12:24 pm

Jovocop wrote:I am not a big fan of AV and believe that he should be fired last season after the LA series.

A few of his decisions that I can never understand:

1/ AV just kept playing Edler on the first powerplay unit despite his struggle. Garrison deserves some minutes in the first unit but hardly got a chance

2/ Having Bieksa with Edler paired together is just a plain bad idea. They both are high-risk high-reward type defensemen. They need a more defensive oriented partner to excel. Bieksa needs someone like Hamhuis to bail him out once in a blue moon. The same could be said about Edler.

3/ Ebbett is completely useless. He can hit nor providing any offense. Pinizzotto might not be anything better in terms of offense; however, he can bring some needed toughness to the lineup.

4/ Kassian played well enough with the Sedins, why could AV put him on the first line and free up Burrows to play with Kesler?

If the Canucks are going to lose in the first round, I hope that they could lose tonight. A short-time pain could be a long-term gain. This team definitely needs some new coaching ideas.


I totally agree that AV's time is done. I personally would have gone for a change this year at the point when we mailed in a game against the Wild that gave them a temporary division lead. It was a dispirited game and very telling IMHO.

However, I do not want a sweep, fuck that, I don't give a shit. no sweeps ever...
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby donlever » Tue May 07, 2013 12:46 pm

dhabums wrote:
Larry Goodenough wrote:You can't suggest a coaching change unless you offer up a replacement at the same time. Replacements will be different mid-season and end of season.


Bull shit, I do not have the resources to commit to finding a replacement. But seeing as naming a replacement gives people something to mock, hire Ruff.

AV is a great coach when he gets great goaltending. I would be too. Other than that, he is a good coach who's time should have ended before now.


Off the top of my don't give a crap, no research done head (pretty sure management has a bigger finger on the pulse of these things than me).

Larry Robinson

Doug Jarvis

Scott Arniel

Gerard Gallant

*local junior coaches

Ryan Huska

Guy Charron

Don Hay

There's an interview list for you, move forward from there.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby donlever » Tue May 07, 2013 12:56 pm

ukcanuck wrote: However, I do not want a sweep, fuck that, I don't give a shit. no sweeps ever...


First ever for the Sharks I believe I heard recently....
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby dbr » Tue May 07, 2013 1:03 pm

donlever wrote:
ukcanuck wrote: However, I do not want a sweep, fuck that, I don't give a shit. no sweeps ever...


First ever for the Sharks I believe I heard recently....


Took them four tries to close out the last team they were up 3 nil on..
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby donlever » Tue May 07, 2013 1:06 pm

dbr wrote:Took them four tries to close out the last team they were up 3 nil on..


True, but..

2013 Sharks >2011 Sharks

2011RedWings >2013 Canucks
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