Chemistry Issues?

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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Reefer2 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:08 pm

Some posters don't think there is anything called "chemistry" amazing what changes when the team starts losing.

IMO - enough of all the marketing gimicks. Get back to playing hockey. 3 years ago it was Luongo as Captain. 2 years ago it was the trip to the finals and fantastic hockey, last season they said they would not celabrate until they win the cup.

You know what I want? I just want a hockey team that comes out, looks excited and goes crazy over some wins. Enough talk about sleep doctors or what ever they want to bring in. just play hockey, skate, shot, makes saves etc.

This team does have a window with the current group of players and it scares me to think we may get a team like Calgary always coming in 9th - 11th and not getting good players. We have had it so good for the last 10 years, we forgot what a bad team is like and I think some of the players have as well.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Lancer » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:22 pm

I figured that the malaise after game 7 was more than just a 'hangover'. When the talking heads note how Daniel isn't even shooting anymore, it makes sense that their confidence is shot. You see it with the Twins, Edler, even Raymond. Forget them waiting for Luongo to get traded or Kesler to come back, it seems they play every game either waiting for the heavens to part and the miracle turn-around moment to happen... or another bad break to reinforce their pessimism. This team needs somebody like Roenick or (it kills me to say this) Messier to grab some shirts and wake them up.

Where is Vigneault in all this? Where's the motivation, and the confidence restoring? It has to be apparent to him that what he's doing isn't working, but it doesn't look like he's doing anything differently.

Small wonder they hired a sports psychologist, and look how that fared. :hmmm:

IMHO, they need new voices in there - in the room and behind the bench. HW, you're right in that MG has to make a timely decision on what he has for a team. If he thinks the team he has can not/will not shake itself out of it, he may as well act fast to shock the system and get ready for next season. Get a new coach in there and start the turn around for next season now. Trade Luongo between now and July, and the rest when you can get the best returns.

Having said that, if Gillis does that he has to be up-front and honest with the leadership core (Kes, Twins, Hammer, Bieksa, Burrows and Schneider - unless he intends to trade any of them), and even consult them before he does anything. It seems the trust between Gillis and the core of the team has been eroded to the point where I'm concerned that the team may have quit on Gillis as well.

I'm afraid in order to get the kind of players this team may need to turn things around, perhaps even the core may have to go the other way. Unless his NTC is already in effect, I would say Edler may be the best candidate to go. When he's on, he's a helluva an asset back there but he really hasn't been the same since late last season. If his head can't get screwed back straight, I say dangle him for younger, cheaper defensive help. It's not like he does things no one else can do - he just does them better than anyone else. Outside of Kesler, there's no one on the roster Gillis could dangle who would start a conversation for a player this team needs and do we really need that many pricey defencemen?

Question is, who would be the player to come back to jolt this team and change its identity from what it is? Weber (contract notwithstanding)? Dubinsky? Clarkson? Matthias? I dunno, but the status quo doesn't look like it will yield anything more than early playoff exits.

Something's gotta give.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Lancer » Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:25 pm

Reefer2 wrote:last season they said they would not celabrate until they win the cup.

You know what I want? I just want a hockey team that comes out, looks excited and goes crazy over some wins. Enough talk about sleep doctors or what ever they want to bring in. just play hockey, skate, shot, makes saves etc.


You may be on to something. I remember one time back in the WCE days when the team was in a morose funk. Crow took them out to an outdoor rink and had them just play shinny. Get them having fun again just playing. Maybe the weight of their own expectations is getting them down more than they know.

Whatever it is, they gotta snap out of it.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:50 pm

The chemistry will come back but it's going to take work.

Time to get the lunch buckets out and outwork a team for 60 minutes.

Everyone who has played team sports knows that feeling when no matter what you do you seem to find ways to lose. As soon as something bad happens everyone's shoulders drop and the "here we go again" attitude rears up.

The Canucks need to focus less on precise system play and get back to basics. If the coaching staff won't allow this then get them out of there ASAP.

If we've lost some talent due to injuries there is only one other way to consistently win games. Out hit, out skate, and out work the other team!

Until that happens this team will struggle.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby dbr » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:03 am

Hockey Widow wrote:As I said in another thread, MG has to make an honest assessment of this team. If he really feels they are a contender then fine, pull the plug and fix the holes. If not then he should be moving players out he has no intention of re-signing next year and getting whatever he can for them. I'm taking Lappy, Raymond, Booth, Ballard and a goalie here.


Is that really an option in this marketplace?

I mean I get that there is a season ticket waiting list in the 1000's but the last guy who basically told this city "I'm going to sit on my hands even if it means missing the playoffs" got his ass fired - and trading away a handful of veterans at the deadline for mid round picks is a hell of a lot worse, optics-wise, than just doing nothing.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be the right move, necessarily - if this isn't the year it just isn't the year, and going for it anyway could be hugely costly (losing a 1st and a prospect to get a guy like Derek Roy or Mike Ribeiro or whoever, making a panic trade for a goaltender because this team needs Tyler Bozak, etc) over the long term.

But I don't get the sense that Aquaman is a patient guy, and giving up 3/4 of the way through the season and taking playoff revenue out of his pockets is probably not a good way to ensure your job security.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby herb » Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:50 am

I agree with Dave. Aquaman would much prefer the extra revenue of even a short playoff series than seeing the team miss the playoffs entirely. Especially after a shortened season and an expensive lockout. If we're not in the dance, we have zero chance of that elusive cup too, so tanking this season doesn't seem likely.

I get that people are frustrated. I'm frustrated too. This season hasn't gone as well as the previous two, and with injuries to significant players and the chemistry and confidence issues HW has illuminated, this may not be our year.

That being said, I don't see how trading Higgins, Raymond and Lapierre for 2nd, 3rd or 4th round draft picks or C grade prospects could possibly help this club at all over the next 2-3 years. I would say Gillis should only employ this strategy if this team is looking like it will miss the playoffs entirely, and he is certain he will either be unable or unwilling to sign these guys to an extension in the off season.

If there is a real hockey trade out there (like say, I dunno, Edler for Brayden Schenn), then that's different. But dumping supporting role players who have proven to be useful for mid round picks or poor prospects and giving up totally on the playoffs doesn't seem likely to me.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Meds » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:39 am

herb wrote:I agree with Dave. Aquaman would much prefer the extra revenue of even a short playoff series than seeing the team miss the playoffs entirely. Especially after a shortened season and an expensive lockout. If we're not in the dance, we have zero chance of that elusive cup too, so tanking this season doesn't seem likely.

I get that people are frustrated. I'm frustrated too. This season hasn't gone as well as the previous two, and with injuries to significant players and the chemistry and confidence issues HW has illuminated, this may not be our year.

That being said, I don't see how trading Higgins, Raymond and Lapierre for 2nd, 3rd or 4th round draft picks or C grade prospects could possibly help this club at all over the next 2-3 years. I would say Gillis should only employ this strategy if this team is looking like it will miss the playoffs entirely, and he is certain he will either be unable or unwilling to sign these guys to an extension in the off season.

If there is a real hockey trade out there (like say, I dunno, Edler for Brayden Schenn), then that's different. But dumping supporting role players who have proven to be useful for mid round picks or poor prospects and giving up totally on the playoffs doesn't seem likely to me.


I agree, trading some good players who fill crucial spots and don't cost an arm and a leg in order to get some mid round picks is asinine. There will be some turnover, and if we hit the trade deadline and are outside the playoff picture then maybe a trade that sends a potential buy out to another team in exchange for a draft pick or a good prospect is worth considering.

If Gillis can find a trade that gives this team a solid center who has the potential to play worthwhile minutes in the top 6 but fills a third line role while Hank and Kesler are still here.....then that is something he should do. Even if it costs Edler, who I think everyone is starting to see as an inconsistent defenseman with all the tools but lacking in the ability to apply them.

I would gladly send Edler out of town for someone like Brayden Schenn.

Now, I should qualify this and say that any move that Gillis makes really has to factor in who is going to be behind the bench next year.

I think a coach like AV makes life way harder on a GM when it comes to filling holes in the roster. Gillis could bring in some very good players and Vigneault will just nullify them. After what HW posted previously, I get the sense that players coming into Vancouver really have difficulty adjusting, and if some of the guys already here have difficulty with his constant line juggling I can't imagine new players not having the same issues.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby spooner » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:33 am

Hockey Widow wrote:A 5 game winning streak would change a lot for this team right now.

Good call.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby herb » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:45 am

And all of a sudden the Canucks are one of the hottest teams in the league with a 7-3-0 record in their last 10 games. Only Pittsburgh and Minnesota have been hotter.

Minnesota is due for a bit of a slide. At least I hope they lose a few here and we get a tighter grip on the NW division.

The bad news is that if the playoffs started today we'd be playing LA...
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Jovocop » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:53 am

herb wrote:And all of a sudden the Canucks are one of the hottest teams in the league with a 7-3-0 record in their last 10 games. Only Pittsburgh and Minnesota have been hotter.

Minnesota is due for a bit of a slide. At least I hope they lose a few here and we get a tighter grip on the NW division.

The bad news is that if the playoffs started today we'd be playing LA...


It seems like the Canucks are playing better when there is a challenge in the division.

I would love the Canucks (healthy) to play against LA in the playoffs again.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Tanti09 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:31 pm

Jovocop wrote:
herb wrote:And all of a sudden the Canucks are one of the hottest teams in the league with a 7-3-0 record in their last 10 games. Only Pittsburgh and Minnesota have been hotter.

Minnesota is due for a bit of a slide. At least I hope they lose a few here and we get a tighter grip on the NW division.

The bad news is that if the playoffs started today we'd be playing LA...


It seems like the Canucks are playing better when there is a challenge in the division.

I would love the Canucks (healthy) to play against LA in the playoffs again.


Ditto - I think going into the playoffs as an underdog this year will result in a different type of Canucks team. Last year they went in with a sense of entitlement. No way that happens this year.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:32 pm

So much depends upon Kesler's health. Thats really the reality of our chances for a long payoff run.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Uncle dans leg » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:08 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:So much depends upon Kesler's health. Thats really the reality of our chances for a long payoff run.

100% agree. Without him at or near his best, were toast. With him strong we can beat anyone. Talk about team MVP
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby darren » Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:24 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:So much depends upon Kesler's health. Thats really the reality of our chances for a long payoff run.

100% agree. Without him at or near his best, were toast. With him strong we can beat anyone. Talk about team MVP


Indeed. Even without any trades at all, with Kesler, we are respectable at centre, have some scoring on the wings, a deep defence, and between Lou and Ginger, are sure to get good goaltending. If this team is healthy at the end of April (a big if this year, but possible), it's a dark horse contender.

There is no team in the league that can be a contender if they are not healthy. That's just the luck of the draw.
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Re: Chemistry Issues?

Postby Hockey Widow » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:01 pm

When Kesler comes back the problem becomes that JS is taken out of his role and placed in a more shut down role. I'd like to see AV keep JS with Raymond and Hansen but we'll see.
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