Has AV's time come?

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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Strangelove » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:45 pm

herb wrote:AV and the Canucks agreed to a two year contract extension last year, meaning he only has one year left on his deal after this season. I'm sure ownership wouldn't be too happy about having to eat the salary of the current coaching staff, but I don't think one year would be a deciding factor if Gillis thinks a change in direction is needed.


I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure AV still had a year left on his contract when he was given the extension.

Meaning: I think he's signed til 2015.

Having said that, if Gillis were to admit his mistake I don't think Aquaman would have TOO much of a problem.

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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Strangelove » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:46 pm

herb wrote:
paddy wrote:The Daniel situation was strike 3...


What are you referring to?


Pretty sure he's referring to AV not being prepared to start the playoffs without Daniel....

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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby sagebrush » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:56 pm

The Canucks are 27th on the PP, & 16th on the PK. 5 on 5, the Canucks are 1.1 in goals for/against. No surprise!
PP performance is the weakest link.

The next question seems to be - are the Canucks getting the most out of available PP resources? If not, put someone else in charge of this.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby herb » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:02 pm

Strangelove wrote:I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure AV still had a year left on his contract when he was given the extension.

Meaning: I think he's signed til 2015.

Having said that, if Gillis were to admit his mistake I don't think Aquaman would have TOO much of a problem.


You could very well be correct. I only looked quickly and saw that it was a two year extension.

Aquaman, like anybody, would be pissed at having to eat two years of salary from this current coaching. No question; but I don't think it would be a deal breaker. If Gillis wanted to pull the plug on the current coaches, I'm sure he'd have ownership's backing. Firing coaches and management and having to eat salary is certainly not a rare thing in pro sports.

I do think giving a guy a two year extension, and then firing him before the extension even kicks in would reflect poorly on Gillis, though.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby herb » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:07 pm

Strangelove wrote:Pretty sure he's referring to AV not being prepared to start the playoffs without Daniel....


Word.

That whole series stunk. Aside from the great hit by Booth on the opening shift, that series stunk from the puck drop of game 1.

How this coaching staff is so unprepared with the PP is unbelievable. Break up the twins, put Kassian out there, feed the puck to Garrison and let him hammer away, maybe use a skilled centre like Jordan Schroeder on the second unit (fuck me), or bench Edler and his fucking drop passes...try something different!
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Strangelove » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:23 pm

herb wrote:I do think giving a guy a two year extension, and then firing him before the extension even kicks in would reflect poorly on Gillis, though.


Yeah, I suppose the only way Gillis cans AV is if he is feeling the heat himself....

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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:34 pm

herb wrote:How this coaching staff is so unprepared with the PP is unbelievable. Break up the twins, put Kassian out there, feed the puck to Garrison and let him hammer away, maybe use a skilled centre like Jordan Schroeder on the second unit (fuck me), or bench Edler and his fucking drop passes...try something different!


Curious if you think it's the coaching staffs fault that Henrik Sedin is 29th in scoring and Daniel, our leading 'goal' scorer with 8 goals is sitting 41st in league scoring?

When the Canucks were at their best, the Sedins were in the top 3 scoring of the league. Now 29th and 41st? Just maybe, just maybe the teams current struggles is a reflection of the Sedins declining play?
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby damonberryman » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:40 pm

If they keep playing the way they have lately, we will be lucky to make the playoffs. The Coil is on our ass to say nothing of the Lames. It is embarrassing. I dread watching PP's lately (like for the last year) and even our faceoffs suck. If Gillis does nothing by the TD he deserves to go. The whole group with one or two exceptions is phoning it in which is insulting. I have more passion for the outcome of games then they do for Chrissake.

If I hear Daniel say one more time how they need to play better or Henrik say we are on the right track I will puke. I got negative feedback when I suggested bringing some kids up and sitting some vets but if anyone can think of another way to motivate them then tell me. Right now they do not deserve to be playoff bound. Shit! I AM wetting the bed! Shit shit shit.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby herb » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:51 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Curious if you think it's the coaching staffs fault that Henrik Sedin is 29th in scoring and Daniel, our leading 'goal' scorer with 8 goals is sitting 41st in league scoring?

When the Canucks were at their best, the Sedins were in the top 3 scoring of the league. Now 29th and 41st? Just maybe, just maybe the teams current struggles is a reflection of the Sedins declining play?


Where is the decline from last season when Hank had 81 points in 82 games? He is currently sitting at 26 points in 27 games. Daniel had 67 points in 72 games, and now has 24 in 26. What kind of decline is that? Looks more like a plateau to me.

There are a lot of issues with this team right now. For starters, I don't think there are more than 2 or 3 players who have played well enough game in and game out at both ends of the rink. I would confidently say Raymond and Hansen have.

I do think it's the coaching staff's fault that they continue to make curious decisions regarding dressing certain players. They continue to deploy certain players in situations where they are likely to fail or not succeed as greatly (see Lapierre, Schroeder, Kassian and Booth) and they seeminly refuse to change things up when they clearly aren't working (see the powerplay). What's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:54 pm

One definition of insanity is to keep trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Just saying...

As for the PP I agree time to let Garrison bang away and sit Edler for a while. He is so predicable and stale. Yes, he scores the occasional blast from the point, albeit not on the PP. But he needs to change something up and sitting maybe the answer in the short term. Let the twins take a few PP off and see if that gets the message through. The second unit cannot be any worse than the first unit is.

It's the same old story. The twins cannot carry a team without secondary scoring from a 2nd line. Without a true second lien the twins get shut down.

Here's my complaint. Obviously he knew he would start the season without Kesler. MG has admitted now that he was doubtful Manny would be with the team past 10 games. Therefore he knew without a doubt that we would be weak at centre this season. Yet he has not pulled the trigger to fix the problem.

I like everyone else here have no idea as to what offers he has been made. Perhaps all he has been offered is a bag of shit. But I think he time has come for him to either be prepared for :

1) no playoffs
2) Playoffs with a very early exit.

Not saying he should be a seller but I am saying he has to look at this team and honestly ask if they are a contender this season. I say no. If he says no then he has to try this trade deadline to unload some players for the future.

If players like Raymond, Higgins, Lappy, Ballard do not fit into the long term plans then he has to unload them before the season is out. If he thinks any of them do fit into the future he should be trying to extend them. Of that group only Higgins is the one I want back.

He may not get a ton back but he may get a few draft picks and or prospects. I'm not a bed wetter nor am I off the band wagon. I just do not see this team as a contender this season. I don't want a massive rebuild but the time has come to do more than tweaking.

Hell if a top 3 r shot D man became available I'd pull the trigger on Edler right now. He isn't going to solve our problems with a Luongo trade. He should be able to get a decent return but not one that will solve all our problems.

This team has been flat since the finals with Boston. They have had sporadic periods of time where they look like they have it back, whatever "it" is. But overall they need an overhaul.

Should AV stay or go? Tough question but the bottom line is he hasn't taken us to the promised land. We got to the finals in a year where players were having career years and everything clicked. Our team plays with little passion or intensity enough times to say they have turned it on again. Is this coaching? Partly, yes. What I saw Saturday was a team that quit when the score was 3-1. They just died after the second period. That's not coaching. That's something wrong with the team mentality.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Strangelove » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:55 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
herb wrote:How this coaching staff is so unprepared with the PP is unbelievable. Break up the twins, put Kassian out there, feed the puck to Garrison and let him hammer away, maybe use a skilled centre like Jordan Schroeder on the second unit (fuck me), or bench Edler and his fucking drop passes...try something different!


Curious if you think it's the coaching staffs fault that Henrik Sedin is 29th in scoring and Daniel, our leading 'goal' scorer with 8 goals is sitting 41st in league scoring?

When the Canucks were at their best, the Sedins were in the top 3 scoring of the league. Now 29th and 41st? Just maybe, just maybe the teams current struggles is a reflection of the Sedins declining play?


Ridiculous, the only Sedin stats that are falling are their PP stats.

The PP is the problem and that shakes down to a coaching problem.

There are more than a few much-less-talented teams scoring more on the PP than your Vancouver Canucks.

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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Uncle dans leg » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:59 pm

damonberryman wrote:Right now they do not deserve to be playoff bound. Shit! I AM wetting the bed! Shit shit shit.

Yabbit...If they win tonight they're back in 1st in our division with home ice. :mex:
A trade for a legitimate 2nd line center dramatically improves the entire look of the team. I expect a pretty bold move by the deadline :wink:
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Topper » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:14 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Here's my complaint. Obviously he knew he would start the season without Kesler. MG has admitted now that he was doubtful Manny would be with the team past 10 games. Therefore he knew without a doubt that we would be weak at centre this season. Yet he has not pulled the trigger to fix the problem.

I like everyone else here have no idea as to what offers he has been made. Perhaps all he has been offered is a bag of shit.

Ask Bountifull how easy it is to trade for a quality centre.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby herb » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:16 pm

HW is right. Unless we see a serious rebound here over the next two weeks, Gillis has to take a pragmatic approach and honestly evaluate his team come deadline day.

If you were to honestly step back and evaluate this team as of today, there are really quite a few problems:
- A leadership group that seems to have lost whatever "it" was they had when we were tops in the league. There's none of that swagger we used to see.
- $10M in injured forwards (for arguments sake, let's say 2/3rds of our second line).
- A forward group which, outside of the first line, does not seem to have any chemistry or cohesiveness.
- Several players who are being asked to do more than should be expected of them (Ebbett, Schroeder, Hansen, Tanev).
- $10M in goaltenders, neither of whom have played particularly well this season for longer than a few games. Neither has been able to "take the ball and run with it", so to speak.
- A $4M depth defenseman who cannot play the right side and who the coaches do not like to use.
- A 4th line that does not contribute much more than the very, very odd goal.
- An absolute train wreck of a powerplay.
- A mediocre penalty kill.
- And last but not least, this group plays with little intensity, and looks emotionless right now. What is up?

You add up the surplus goaltender, Keith Ballard and the injured Kesler and Booth, and that's approximately $20M of spoken for cap money that isn't benefiting the team much at this point.

At this point, it's looking more and more like a reset or retool would be more constructive than buying expensive help at the deadline.
Last edited by herb on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:17 pm

Topper wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Here's my complaint. Obviously he knew he would start the season without Kesler. MG has admitted now that he was doubtful Manny would be with the team past 10 games. Therefore he knew without a doubt that we would be weak at centre this season. Yet he has not pulled the trigger to fix the problem.

I like everyone else here have no idea as to what offers he has been made. Perhaps all he has been offered is a bag of shit.

Ask Bountifull how easy it is to trade for a quality centre.



I know, I know, I know. I have to believe he is trying but it is so frustrating.
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