what has to happen to get the ship on course?

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby dangler » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:33 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Arachnid wrote:Davey scored a beauty of a goal last night! (coulda been worse...he coulda missed! :rofl: ).


I know, nice forehand, backhand, roof it goal it was. With 1 goal in 11 games, what's Mr. $4.5 million on pace for?

I like what i've seen from Booth the last 2 games,but the thing I keep asking myself is,"how much of this do we get before he's injured again"?

Raymond,Higgins and Hansen have been great this season and have proven to be versatile players for the Canucks , it would be nice if the Gillis could find a way to keep them all around for a few more seasons. I think the team has to forget about Kesler and if he ever happens to be healthy for the playoffs then it's a bonus,but don't count on it.

The D is starting to tighten up and they have adequate depth

So thats 2 Centers the Gillis is going to have to bend over and shit out :shock:
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Mondi » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:49 pm

Would the Rangers consider Booth + (significant piece) + (draft pick) for Gaborik?

I'd do it. Bold moves.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:00 pm

Mondi wrote:Would the Rangers consider Booth + (significant piece) + (draft pick) for Gaborik?

I'd do it. Bold moves.


We need a centre, Booth for Dubinsky is a possibility. Same age, same salaries (Dubinsky $4.2 million) although Dubinsky's contract expires after next season where as after this Booth has two more seasons left on his. We could toss in Rodin or Connauton.

The BJ's have loads of centres, Umberger, Asiminov, Brassard, Johanson, Mackenzie...
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:08 pm

I dunno if it's quite that simple. I think the player's situation has alot to do with his performance. When booth and ballard were on poorer teams, they were the top players there and given more minutes/responsibilites, thus they were able to produce more. On a better team like vancouver, their role and minutes are decreased significantly, thus they can't produce the way they did before.

For young players, it's a different ball of wax. Lots of times, the player is just learning the ropes for the NHL. Some are ready to contribute right away, some take time to develop. I would say for both Coho and Machine Gun Grabner, they both benefited alot by the way the Canucks slowly brought them along. Even when they were playing in Vancouver, they were both showing signs that they could be good NHL players. Coho had a great start with us last year, scored some big goals (ie - that boston goal) and was a good secondary threat for us. I think Grabs scored a hat trick for us on 1 of our west coast road trips. They were also both showing signs that they were not quite ready for the NHL (ie - consistency, defensive coverage, etc). The canucks have a lot of depth, so they have the luxery to slowly bring these players along and put them on the 4th line or the press box when they not playing well. Coho and Grabs have played very well almost instantly with their new teams and I think the way the Canucks developed them has benefited them alot.

vic wrote:When good players on others teams come to the Canucks and under-perform (Ballard, Booth, Garrison) and the Canucks depth and role players go onto other teams to have career years (Hodgson and Grabner) it tells me the coaching staff can't get the best out of their players.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Mondi » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:15 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Mondi wrote:Would the Rangers consider Booth + (significant piece) + (draft pick) for Gaborik?

I'd do it. Bold moves.


We need a centre, Booth for Dubinsky is a possibility. Same age, same salaries (Dubinsky $4.2 million) although Dubinsky's contract expires after next season where as after this Booth has two more seasons left on his. We could toss in Rodin or Connauton.

The BJ's have loads of centres, Umberger, Asiminov, Brassard, Johanson, Mackenzie...


Yeah we do need a centre, but I'm not going to go forward counting Kesler out. He's too important to the team.

I may be dreaming but something like...

Burrows Sedin Sedin
Gaborik Kesler Kassian
Hansen Lapierre Higgins
Weise (Plug Centre) Tostitos

...might work.

Gives us a legit 2nd unit PP. And I think its easier to find a 4L centre for a draft pick or prospect than it is to get a 2L or 3L centre. Particularly if you can get a 2L winger.

And, in a good season Raymond and Booth could outscore Gaborik. The Rangers might actually have to consider it.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Jovocop » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:35 pm

Mondi wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Mondi wrote:Would the Rangers consider Booth + (significant piece) + (draft pick) for Gaborik?

I'd do it. Bold moves.


We need a centre, Booth for Dubinsky is a possibility. Same age, same salaries (Dubinsky $4.2 million) although Dubinsky's contract expires after next season where as after this Booth has two more seasons left on his. We could toss in Rodin or Connauton.

The BJ's have loads of centres, Umberger, Asiminov, Brassard, Johanson, Mackenzie...


Yeah we do need a centre, but I'm not going to go forward counting Kesler out. He's too important to the team.

I may be dreaming but something like...

Burrows Sedin Sedin
Gaborik Kesler Kassian
Hansen Lapierre Higgins
Weise (Plug Centre) Tostitos

...might work.

Gives us a legit 2nd unit PP. And I think its easier to find a 4L centre for a draft pick or prospect than it is to get a 2L or 3L centre. Particularly if you can get a 2L winger.

And, in a good season Raymond and Booth could outscore Gaborik. The Rangers might actually have to consider it.


Gaborik still has one more year left on his current $7.5m contract. I am not sure how MG could fit him under the cap next year. The Canucks desperately need a 3rd line center, not another soft and oft-injured winger.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Strangelove » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:40 pm

Now lemmee get this straight Mondi, RD.

The 2 who spew nothing but vile towards Booth figure by adding a spare part he'd bring back Gaborik or Dubinsky?? :shock:

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:44 pm

how's this for a Booth trade?

booth
for
Sam Gagner

The Oil are desperately in need of some grittier bigger bodies to play with their young guns. I think Booth will find his 30 goal form again if he plays with a guy like Nuge. Plus, they'll luv Booth in the bible belt. :lol:

Gagner is going to be a UFA, so the Oil will probably want to move him and get something in return if they don't make the playoffs. Gagner would really help us down the middle and maybe he'll take a hometown discount to be in the same organization as his ol man. :D
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Hank » Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:58 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:The Oil are desperately in need of some grittier bigger bodies to play with their young guns. I think Booth will find his 30 goal form again if he plays with a guy like Nuge. Plus, they'll luv Booth in the bible belt. :lol:


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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Strangelove » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:04 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:Gagner is going to be a UFA


Gagner is going to be an RFA.

We won't be getting young Gagner for Booth.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby DonCherry4PM » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:49 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
vic wrote:When good players on others teams come to the Canucks and under-perform (Ballard, Booth, Garrison) and the Canucks depth and role players go onto other teams to have career years (Hodgson and Grabner) it tells me the coaching staff can't get the best out of their players.
I dunno if it's quite that simple. I think the player's situation has alot to do with his performance. When booth and ballard were on poorer teams, they were the top players there and given more minutes/responsibilites, thus they were able to produce more. On a better team like vancouver, their role and minutes are decreased significantly, thus they can't produce the way they did before.

For young players, it's a different ball of wax. Lots of times, the player is just learning the ropes for the NHL. Some are ready to contribute right away, some take time to develop. I would say for both Coho and Machine Gun Grabner, they both benefited alot by the way the Canucks slowly brought them along. Even when they were playing in Vancouver, they were both showing signs that they could be good NHL players. Coho had a great start with us last year, scored some big goals (ie - that boston goal) and was a good secondary threat for us. I think Grabs scored a hat trick for us on 1 of our west coast road trips. They were also both showing signs that they were not quite ready for the NHL (ie - consistency, defensive coverage, etc). The canucks have a lot of depth, so they have the luxery to slowly bring these players along and put them on the 4th line or the press box when they not playing well. Coho and Grabs have played very well almost instantly with their new teams and I think the way the Canucks developed them has benefited them alot.


So it is a simple argument to pose that AV can't get enough out of his players but it isn't simple to argue that AV develops his players well so they will succeed when they go to other teams? Not really sure I follow that. I don't really think either is a simple argument. Both come from a bias. Those of us who feel AV has some big warts seem to lean toward his having a little more accountability for certain player's under-utilization or underdevelopment. Those of us who feel AV has very few warts seem to lean toward the view that the same player's under-utilization or underdevelopment is more due to said player's lack of skill, heart or ability to rise in the moment of opportunity. While I do agree that players have a large part of the responsibility in their own rise and fall, I also feel that a coach has a significant amount of influence upon this, and, in AV's case, I believe this has been to the detriment of certain players' development.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby vic » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:47 pm

If PHI is out of the playoff picture, currently 11th and 5 points back of 8th, wonder if they become sellers...Briere?

Playoff machine, skilled set up guy...cap hit is 6.5 next 2 years, but the departure of a goalie, Ballard and Manny plus possibly Booth and they can make it work.

Salary is $3 mil and $2 mil next two years so no hurting anyone's feelings by having him the highest paid F on the team.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:47 pm

Well, from what I gather it hasn't been a great marriage between Dubinsky and the BJ's. Trading a disappointment for another might be good for all parties involved, especially since Gillis created a debacle at the centre position here. That's why I suggested a Connauton or a Rodin as pot sweeteners. Kinda lame sweeteners but I am flexible to upgrade the pot a little to fix the debacle at centre.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Lancer » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:42 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Well, from what I gather it hasn't been a great marriage between Dubinsky and the BJ's. Trading a disappointment for another might be good for all parties involved, especially since Gillis created a debacle at the centre position here. That's why I suggested a Connauton or a Rodin as pot sweeteners. Kinda lame sweeteners but I am flexible to upgrade the pot a little to fix the debacle at centre.


If that's the case, then it may be worth looking into how to get Dubinsky outta there. It depends on where Kekalainen wants to build the team going forward. I think Gillis will have to part with one of either Raymond/Booth/Ballard and a prospect at the least to start, but that's do-able. I read somewhere that he doesn't consider himself married to any of Howson's acquisitions so it's worth Gillis getting on the phone about the guy. He could do worse. :mex:
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:03 pm

Yeah, you're right, RFA. My bad. Was just watching one of the networks on potential guys being traded and they brought Gagner up. They said the Oil will probably try to move him to get something in return for him, so I just assumed he was UFA. Hmm... how about:

Booth and Ballard
for
Gagner?

:lol:


Strangelove wrote:Gagner is going to be an RFA.

We won't be getting young Gagner for Booth.
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