what has to happen to get the ship on course?

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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby black ace » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:52 am

Good teams are strong down the middle. Its no secret.

The team went into the year with :
Henrik
Kesler -injured coming off 2 surgeries
Lapierre
Maholtra

And we expected Schroeder/Ebbett to fill in for Kesler. Im sorry but thats not good enough. Gillis has admited he thought about dumping Maholtra last year but decided to give him the first part of this year to show him. And if he couldnt show him what was the back-up plan ??? Burrows ? Really ??

Basically the Canucks had 2 NHL centers entering the year.


Then you look at the defence. Was Gillis thinking we would be fine with 2 right side defencemen ? Really ? He wants depth on defence but completly disregards the need to have some one that can play the right side?? Really ??

The team is starting (since mid-season last year) to show some holes and Gillis hasnt been able to fill them.

I wonder who from Florida is available ?
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Jovocop » Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:16 pm

A very good article about Booth, http://canucksarmy.com/2013/3/12/david- ... -dont-show

Conclusion:
Half of Booth's shots have been pretty good. There's some pretty good variety in there. I think there's a chance for him to better use his teammates in these situations. Booth has 13 shots in the last four games and Zack Kassian has just seven. That said, in none of the shifts I watched did Kassian make a beeline for the net and Booth was left to his devices.

One important thing to note: these shots are all at even strength, and Booth does almost all the zone entry work on his line with Kassian and Lapierre. Eric T. of NHL Numbers has done the leg work that shows that the most important part of a player's game is his ability to gain the zone with possession. Once in the offensive zone, it hardly matters who is out there, but Booth's zone entry abilities (I'll test the theory by actually counting entries for a game or two sometime this season) seem to be very strong in most of these players. Booth is the one making the move and bringing the puck in. After the last shot against Calgary, he skated the puck in and established possession, rather than dump it in, which meant the Canucks were able to hold onto the puck even as he changes.

This is a results-oriented fan base, but I don't think that accepting Booth ought to be bought out is the way to go. He's done well by Thom Drance's scoring chance data and has some excellent defensive abilities, plus his ability to control the neutral zone, which makes him a valuable player.

Eventually, pucks will go in for him. Even last season, when he scored just 16 goals and sat out some time to injury, he recorded 16 goals over 56 games, which is worth 23 over 82 games. Seeing his shooting percentage at evens is 8.9% since 2008 (playing mostly in shot-counting-heavy Florida) and was 9.8% last season, 0 goals in 21 five-on-five shots is pretty low. That's especially considering he's had five good chances in the shots outlined above.

If the lack of results continues after more than nine games, sure, then he becomes a buyout target. But generally it takes about 30 or 40 games for a team's results to catch up to the processes. For a player it can be even more than that. You won't find a guy on the free agent wire who is as good at five-on-five as David Booth is at both ends. Even without the crazy Sedin zone starts, he is third on the team in Corsi/60, and his WOWY's are unreal. Zack Kassian goes from a 53.2% Corsi player to 59.6% when Booth is on the ice. They're taking a lot of shots together, and the goals will come.

I know fans prefer results, but the honest truth is that "playing well" doesn't correlate with "getting results" over a short span of games no matter what your eyes tell you. If your eyes are better than the numbers, though, then allow me to propose a number of proposition bets against you. I'll win most of them.


As I said, Booth is not the problem. Lacking 2 centremen and 2 RH defensmen (with Bieksa out) is the major problem for the Canucks.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby vic » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:18 pm

Jovocop wrote:As I said, Booth is not the problem. Lacking 2 centremen and 2 RH defensmen (with Bieksa out) is the major problem for the Canucks.


Not having a coaching staff that can make adjustments to their system based on the players they have available is the problem - look at Ottawa and all their missing pieces, Montreal who has one of the smallest teams in the league and where they're sitting in the standings.

Med's (?) Chocolate sundae example was perfect example of the inept coaching staff the Canucks have behind the bench.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Jovocop » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:26 pm

vic wrote:
Jovocop wrote:As I said, Booth is not the problem. Lacking 2 centremen and 2 RH defensmen (with Bieksa out) is the major problem for the Canucks.


Not having a coaching staff that can make adjustments to their system based on the players they have available is the problem - look at Ottawa and all their missing pieces, Montreal who has one of the smallest teams in the league and where they're sitting in the standings.

Med's (?) Chocolate sundae example was perfect example of the inept coaching staff the Canucks have behind the bench.


I am not saying that coaching is not a problem. If not for Garrison and Luongo, the Canucks might lose another two points last night. The coaching staff seems to have problem preparing the team.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby CFP! » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:01 pm

Brandon Sutter for MayRay/Schroeder/3rd

Jus sayin'
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Jovocop » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:21 pm

CFP! wrote:Brandon Sutter for MayRay/Schroeder/3rd

Jus sayin'


I would do it but not sure the two GMs will...
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Meds » Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:35 pm

Nice find Jovo.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Aaronp18 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:00 pm

CFP! wrote:Brandon Sutter for MayRay/Schroeder/3rd

Jus sayin'


I don't think Sutter is going anywhere. Not for that package anyways.

What about making a move with the Sharks? They are in the same boat as usual and are currently on the outside of the playoffs looking in.

Elder and Raymond for Pavelski and Demers.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Jovocop » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:12 am

Another interesting article:

http://canucksarmy.com/2013/3/14/trade- ... g-a-center

I do like the following two targets.

Marcel Goc - Florida
Contract: $1.7 million through 2014 (UFA)

Perhaps the most intriguing realistic acquisition, Goc is having a great season for the Panthers (just as he did in 2011-12). He can play tough minutes, drive possession forward, win faceoffs, and play in both special team situations. He is a borderline second line center and would give the Canucks another line capable of scoring some goals. Do the Canucks make another trade with the Panthers?


Shawn Matthias - Florida
Contract: $850,000 through 2013 (RFA)

It is unlikely that the Panthers move Matthias, but he would be a very attractive piece to the Canucks. He’s young and controllable, and he brings a lot of elements they would be looking for from a bottom six center. And Florida has a lot of young centers ready to play. Drew Shore has had a great rookie season, and Nick Bjugstad is on the way. Stephen Weiss likely won’t be back, so Florida may try and keep Matthias around to ensure they don’t lose a lot of their depth.

Trading for Matthias would be more of a “hockey trade” than a pure deadline rental


Derick Brassard – Columbus
Contract: $3.2 million through 2014 (RFA)

Speaking of hockey trades, Brassard is another interesting option. He is owed a decent chunk of change on his contract, but he would bring a lot to the Canucks – namely skill and offensive ability. He wouldn’t be acquired to play shutdown minutes for the Canucks. Vancouver desperately needs skill and playmaking in their top nine – in fact, I’d argue that a lack of skill is a more pressing need than finding a checking center.

Acquiring Brassard would mean that Kesler would have to play tougher minutes. Another option would be to move Kesler to right wing (I think this is the best solution), but that would only happen if the Canucks were able to bring in another center as well. I can’t see the team trading for two centers at the deadline – perhaps one now, and another in the summer?

Brassard has been on the trading block for a while now, as a lack of development (injuries, bad team, there are many reasons for that) in Columbus has kept him from really emerging as a consistent offensive threat. Or perhaps the Canucks
acquire him to play on the wing?


Goc seems like a better option because of the price tag. Matthias and Brassard are more like long term solutions. MG might need to give up more assets to acquire one of those two.

Would RD explode if MG trades for another Panther?? :lol:
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:31 am

Aaronp18 wrote:
CFP! wrote:Brandon Sutter for MayRay/Schroeder/3rd

Jus sayin'


I don't think Sutter is going anywhere. Not for that package anyways.

What about making a move with the Sharks? They are in the same boat as usual and are currently on the outside of the playoffs looking in.

Elder and Raymond for Pavelski and Demers.


no shit ... Sutter was just acquired by the Pens and they are going to flip him for an inconsistent smallish UFA a smurf and a 3rd rounder. :lol: :lol:

You have to give to get and what this team really needs is another offensive minded centre.... call him a #2 or #3 it doesn't really fucking matter. There isn't much available out there other than maybe Brassard or Ribeiro. Ribeiro would look mighty good playing alonside Kesler i believe. What would it take to get him though ?

probably considered untouchable by some people but I don't ever see this guy consistently breaking 20 goals. He's cheap , he has another year before UFA and his production is no better than Higgins or Raymond but he has much more value. If this team wants to improve its scoring and skill level up front I'd say we need to move our eldest Dane. I like the guy but after next year he will be jumping into that 3- 4 million level himself and his value has never been higher. Or MG can continue to spin his wheels. Soon to be 27, what we see is what we will get with this player.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Uncle dans leg » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:35 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:[Blobs blort

Ribiero is UFA after this season. I'd say he is available if they continue to suck
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby dbr » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:58 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:[Hansen - I assume] probably considered untouchable by some people but I don't ever see this guy consistently breaking 20 goals. He's cheap , he has another year before UFA and his production is no better than Higgins or Raymond but he has much more value. If this team wants to improve its scoring and skill level up front I'd say we need to move our eldest Dane. I like the guy but after next year he will be jumping into that 3- 4 million level himself and his value has never been higher. Or MG can continue to spin his wheels. Soon to be 27, what we see is what we will get with this player.


Yeah I could see there being a market for his services if the Canucks want to make a move and I don't think he'd be missed so badly that it wouldn't be worth the trouble.. but I don't know what else you'd have to add on top of him to get a center that can play similar minutes.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:19 pm

Well dbr... they can move any prospect except Gaunce or Jensen.... might be hesitant to move Corrado but depending upon the player coming back he could be in play.

Hansen + Schroeder+ 2014 1st round pick could return a very nice player me thinks. If Luongo lights it up and a team or two gets desperate he is a valuable piece. Other pieces should be in play too as MG clearly has some work to do to shape this team for the playoffs as well as moving forward. It's not that I desperately want to see Hansen dealt but he has value and could be a real ice piece for another team. This team has how many fucking tweener wingers right now ? If you include Kassian that is 5. And considering he produced when playing with decent players he will be one by next season.

To me if they re -sign one or even both of Higgins or Raymond they don't lose much with the departure of Hansen. In that case Booth is out.

Next year :

Sedin Sedin Kassian
Burrows Kesler New Guy
Higgins New guy Booth/Raymond/Jensen
Whatever at this point

Ideally they could snag both a third line centre and a guy who can play both centre and wing and spell in for RK when he gets hurt. I like the idea of Ribeiro but what will he cost and I can't see them retaining him long term. There is a dearth of high end skill up front when compared to teams like the Hawks , Ducks, Penguins, Bruins etc.

MG has to make a move(s) to at least give AV a fighting chance. I am no fan of that fat frog but he has been dealt a pretty shitty hand by Gillis thus far this season. That said Why won't AV yank Burrows off of that line and put Booth or Kassian with the twins to maybe get those guys goin. It isn't like Burrows has been lighting it up. AV needs to help himself sometimes.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby DonCherry4PM » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:51 pm

Was just listening to a Team1040 interview with GMMG. One line that caught me was GMMG stating:

We have to change tactics to have success against teams playing a certain style.

Now maybe I am taking this statement wrong, but it felt like a bit of a censure to AV's coaching and a bit of vindication for those of us who have been arguing that AV has a very static game strategy which he either unwilling or unable to adapt based upon the play of others. Not that the GM is always right, but at least he seems to be recognizing some of the deficiencies with AV.
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Re: what has to happen to get the ship on course?

Postby Jovocop » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:38 pm

DonCherry4PM wrote:Was just listening to a Team1040 interview with GMMG. One line that caught me was GMMG stating:

We have to change tactics to have success against teams playing a certain style.

Now maybe I am taking this statement wrong, but it felt like a bit of a censure to AV's coaching and a bit of vindication for those of us who have been arguing that AV has a very static game strategy which he either unwilling or unable to adapt based upon the play of others. Not that the GM is always right, but at least he seems to be recognizing some of the deficiencies with AV.


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