Has AV's time come?

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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby porp » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:19 pm

Strangelove wrote:One more time: Perhaps you have been wrong all along about AV's "expiration date". :sly:


Or maybe it's the "best before" date. Real food uses "expiration," a lot of semi-food is "safe" to eat almost indefinitely although palatability suffers hence, "best before."

AV's demonstrated inability to successfully adapt to changing situations has been really frustrating to endure. A mid-season coaching change in a shortened year might not be as hazardous as during a full season. The team isn't super competitive, could use a kick in the pants right now, but most importantly it gives the potential new coach a few months and, maybe, a playoffs to evaluate current personnel to better be able to contribute to off-season movement.

The years with Iron Mike here sucked, but it was a phoenix/ashes thing. I don't think that this team needs that level of gutting, but maybe a milder shock to the system? An “A person needs new experiences. They jar something deep inside, allowing you to grow. Without them, it sleeps- seldom to awaken. The sleeper must awaken." perhaps?
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:44 pm

Did you just quote Dune?

I don't think its about whether AV is a good coach or not, this market is not Toronto, those consecutive sellout are not unconditional. This is a results town baby and if Gillis wants to stay in office he's gotta produce or its buh-bye mikey.

This group has teased and they've come close but there are no laurels to perch his ass on yet.
This team either makes the playoffs and makes a fucking showing in the second round
Or he trades Luongo and or a key piece to get a change up in personnel he can sell as a new hope
Or he can lay the whole thing on AV, hire a new guy, and sell the paying customer on let's give the new guy a chance...


He does none of these at his peril.
I guess realistically he's got until the draft to make real moves for next season but....
If I'm aqua man I'm calling the board of governors for some inside scoop on who's available for a GM now just in case...
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby BladesofSteel » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:14 pm

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Raymond Kesler _______
Higgins ______ Hansen
______ Lappiere _______
Kassian

Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Bieksa
Garrison ______

These: _______ are all the positions that need improvement this season in order for the club to make a serious playoff run.

These:
Booth
Raymond
Ballard
Schneider
Luongo
Schroeder
Jensen
Gaunce
2013 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick
2014 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick

are all the assets on Gillis' plate to make the necessary improvements to the team. Some are obviously more enticing than others, but what this club needs more than anything, a 3rd line centre, should not cost a Schneider, Jensen or Gaunce. Perhaps a top six winger might, but that isn't going to help the major woes down the middle. Kesler will be back, but he's only as good as the centre behind him.

Manny was a big part of Kesler's coming out two years ago, replacing Malhotra's PK time, faceoff ability and minute munching will take a significant load off of the top two lines. Everything else is secondary to finding a top nine centre.

This is not on AV, its on Gillis and his inability to make improvements on the number of holes throughout the lineup, specifically the one that has been staring him in the face for the past two years.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Canuck-One » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:50 pm

As I said earlier, unless Gillis gives AV the necessary parts this team is going nowhere this season. So why not look ahead to making offers to UFA's in the summer. Fill the holes that are so obvious with two FA's in Weiss and Clowe. I'm sure there are others that might look good here but those two struck me as a good fit.

Sedin Sedin Burrows
Clowe Weiss Kassian
Raymond Kesler Hansen
Weise Lappiere Sestito
Higgins

Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Bieksa
Garrison Corrado
McNally

Schneider
Lack
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby nuckster » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:45 am

Exellent post BOS!
I hope GWMG can see it that way.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Tiger » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:12 am

Blades of Steel said:
This is not on AV, its on Gillis and his inability to make improvements on the number of holes throughout the lineup, specifically the one that has been staring him in the face for the past two years.


BINGO ! Maybe Aquaman should make the BOLD MOVE? AV cannot make chicken soup out of chicken shit..
We got a Nonis/Burke team with bad spare parts and the Nonis team is aging..and falling apart.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby dbr » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:44 am

BladesofSteel wrote:Sedin Sedin Burrows
Raymond Kesler _______
Higgins ______ Hansen
______ Lappiere _______
Kassian

Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Bieksa
Garrison ______

...

This is not on AV, its on Gillis and his inability to make improvements on the number of holes throughout the lineup, specifically the one that has been staring him in the face for the past two years.


You don't think a coach should be able to coax more wins than losses out of this lineup? It's largely the same one that was the best (regular season) team in the league the last two years.

Granted we are missing Kesler and now Malhotra, that's a tough situation to be in.

Frankly as I said elsewhere I've kind of checked out this season, I'd rather Gillis sit on his hands than deal a 1st round pick for a guy marginally better than Manny was last year (like what it cost to get Paul Gaustad at the last trade deadline). Things are just so out of whack this season and the Canucks are already staring at a cap crunch this offseason, why spend a bunch of assets for at most a three month run.

I mean if you can move David Booth for Brandon Dubinsky then go for it, but those deals (even realistic ones :look: ) don't seem to be out there.
Last edited by dbr on Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Topper » Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:47 am

dbr wrote:Granted we are missing Kesler and now Malhotra, that's a tough situation to be in.

and KB3

Four game winless streak, fire the coach, panic trade ...... how much urine can your mattress's absorb?
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby wafflecombine » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:05 am

Well, If we are going to talk about moves in the summer we also need to talk Tanev. The kid is RFA this summer and we'll need to sign him up. Given how solidly he is playing does he rate a Hamhuis style contract in the 4mil cap range?

If so, even if Ballard is moved, we are back to having 5 dmen making more than 4 mill per year. Are we sure we want a #5/6 slot costing that much again?

Also, the new contract to Burrows eats up any savings from Manny being UFA/Traded/retired. Raymond, Higgins and Lappy are also UFA next year.

Anyway, just some additional factors to toss in the mix for those peeps already mixing & matching for the off-season.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby dbr » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:16 am

wafflecombine wrote:Well, If we are going to talk about moves in the summer we also need to talk Tanev. The kid is RFA this summer and we'll need to sign him up. Given how solidly he is playing does he rate a Hamhuis style contract in the 4mil cap range?


Whoa whoa whoa.

This isn't really the thread for this. But... Chris Tanev has 13 career NHL points. He has fewer than 100 NHL games played (and maybe... maybe? a dozen of those have been played above the third pairing). Most importantly, Chris Tanev has four years of RFA eligibility left.

In Dan Hamhuis' last year prior to hitting unrestricted free agency, he tied for the lead on his blueline in even strength points.. that's a blueline featuring Shea Weber and Ryan Suter.

Chris Tanev is nowhere near being that calibre of player and even if he was his negotiating position is weakened so badly by his RFA status that you don't have to give him anywhere near what Hamhuis makes. When his current deal expires you offer him a fair medium term contract that is fully representative of his complete lack of offensive contribution at this point in his career.. there is absolutely no reason to cave on this player and even if you fold like a cheap tent in negotiations you'd probably come out somewhere in the $3m dollar range. Hell even if you had to match some other team's offer sheet it probably still comes out in that territory.

I'd guess he either ends up around $1.5m per for one or two years, or $2m per for three or four years.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Benjo » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:17 am

wafflecombine wrote:Well, If we are going to talk about moves in the summer we also need to talk Tanev. The kid is RFA this summer and we'll need to sign him up. Given how solidly he is playing does he rate a Hamhuis style contract in the 4mil cap range?


If he gets offered 4 mill over 3 years he should take it and run. He plays a solid d game yes, but he provides 0 offensive support and he doesn't have size or an intimidating presence.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby DonCherry4PM » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:24 am

While I would love to see Giggles gone, I doubt very much that he will get the cut at this point. As many have pointed out, there are way too many intervening factors (/excuses) for the team's funk to be placed at his feet - the injury bug being that greatest of these. Sadly, I think his tenure here is going to continue for a while, barring missing the playoffs, which even with the current funk, I don't see happening. Not a huge fan of Ruff either, so while seeing Giggles get canned might offer instant gratification, waiting until a suitable replacement comes available might be a better course.
Invincibility lies in oneself.
Vincibility lies in the enemy.

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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Zedlee » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:47 am

I'd like to see what a healthy Kesler can mean to this group in the playoffs. I think they can still take a run at the cup, but if they bow out early, fire both AV and MG.

The Sedins have one year left on their contracts after this season and if for some reason they decide not to re-sign...it's a full on rebuild for us.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:09 am

Zedlee wrote:I'd like to see what a healthy Kesler can mean to this group in the playoffs. I think they can still take a run at the cup, but if they bow out early, fire both AV and MG.

The Sedins have one year left on their contracts after this season and if for some reason they decide not to re-sign...it's a full on rebuild for us.



Even with a healthy Ryan Kesler there is still a gaping hole for another top nine centre and at least one more defenceman that FF trusts. I see Ballard is sitting again tonight.

Hmmmmmm so if the twins don't re-sign the team doesn't get to spend the 12.2 million they would save on those contracts. That's interesting, must be a new rule. Full on rebuild straight ahead I guess.
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Re: Has AV's time come?

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:12 am

Topper wrote:
dbr wrote:Granted we are missing Kesler and now Malhotra, that's a tough situation to be in.

and KB3

Four game winless streak, fire the coach, panic trade ...... how much urine can your mattress's absorb?



3 wins in 12.... PP has reeked for over a year. Garbage effort in the playoffs, failure by the coaching staff to adjust to other teams game plans. For the record I wanted FF gone last season after that debacle in April.
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