Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:24 am

okcanuck wrote:Everybody knows Parise isnt worth what Minni is paying him. Mmmmm another team getting subsidized by the teams operating under a sensible business model. I dont think Getzlaf is worth anywhere near that contract


It isn't about what you "think" a player is worth it's what teams are willing to pay for a guy.

Parise and Suter had numerous teams interested it wasn't just Mini.

No matter how ridiculous, those contracts were market value.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Mondi » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:34 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:It's an overpayment for a good player. By about $1M/year.


I'll suggest to you sir, that given the existence of Ballard and Booth's contracts, that Getzlaf is an underpayment.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Larry Goodenough » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:47 am

The league is supposed to be projecting $2.4 B in revenues just in this 48 game season. If that growth continues and Phoenix is solved in the next year, the cap will go up leaps and bounds again over the next number of years.

Getzlaf at $8.25M this season is a lot, but the same cap hit in three years when the cap is back about $75M is alot more reasonable.

I think this contract says alot more about Getzlaf than it does the Ducks. He's saying he's all about the money and not about winning.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:57 am

Island Nucklehead wrote:
Not really. With the new CBA, there is added benefit for players to re-up with their own teams. That extra year (when Getzlaf will be 35)


Do you seriously think that that extra year gives teams as much leverage as they have when signing their RFA's.

That is asinine.

An extra year gives them as small edge, but owning their rights for 7 years gives them the hammer.


Anaheim got fleeced paying UFA money for their own player.


Getzlaf gets more then 8.25 in free agency.

The cap hit's for the higher end UFA's been artificially reduced by increasing the term and front loading them. Now that it isnt allowed we are going to see big spikes in the cap hits for the top guys.



Or you could look at it like Teemu Selanne and this years Ryan Getzlaf for 8 more years of future Ryan Getzlaf.


Not sure what your point is here. Selanne has been giving the Ducks cupcake deals for years and this deal does not have anything to do with that relationship.


Next year, Getzlaf alone will account for about 13% of their total cap.


Markus Nasland's deal coming out of the lock out was 15.4% of the cap that year. High end playes have been trending down because of front loading.

That wont continue and you will see star players trend back up to their real value.


There would be a line up of NHL GM's waiting to pay Ryan Getzlaf 8.25.

Again for context, the first 8 years of Zach Parise's contract pay him 79 mill so just under 10 mill per over that period. I hope no one here thinks Zach Parise is as good as Ryan Getzlaf....


So we're comparing Getzlaf's contract to one of the more ridiculed UFA deals going? Good start.


Yes we are.

Getzlaf was a few months from being in the exact situation that the players I noted were. It is absurd to compare this player to other guys who signed when they are years away from becoming UFA's.

What Malkin, Crosby, and Stamkos actually make is simply not relevant. What matters is how much each guy could make if they were hitting free agency this summer like Getzlaf.

If any of those guys actually hit the open market they are probably getting offers in the 10 to 12 mill per year range.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby okcanuck » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:34 am

Potatoe1 wrote:
okcanuck wrote:Everybody knows Parise isnt worth what Minni is paying him. Mmmmm another team getting subsidized by the teams operating under a sensible business model. I dont think Getzlaf is worth anywhere near that contract


It isn't about what you "think" a player is worth it's what teams are willing to pay for a guy.

Parise and Suter had numerous teams interested it wasn't just Mini.

No matter how ridiculous, those contracts were market value.


Actually it does matter matter what I "think" about Getzlaf's contract. I'm indirectly subsidizing his contract by buying Canucks tickets, buying Canucks jerseys, etc. etc. ,because Anaheim is inept at running their franchise properly.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Uncle dans leg » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:44 am

Getzlaf is a proven 6'4" 220lb top NHL centre with a cup ring on the cusp of unrestricted free agency. He can crush you, score from anywhere, take over a game at will and has the resume to back him up. He sometimes plays it a bit lax but when it matters this guy is money. Dont forget the guy is only 27...
That said he didn't give Bob Murray much of a break on the contract but in all honesty Getzlaf had all the leverage and Bob knew it. This is where an NHL player cashes in for spending almost their entire life in training. Good signing by Anaheim...
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Topper » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:54 am

^ding Ding DING
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:09 pm

okcanuck wrote: Actually it does matter matter what I "think" about Getzlaf's contract. I'm indirectly subsidizing his contract by buying Canucks tickets, buying Canucks jerseys, etc. etc. ,because Anaheim is inept at running their franchise properly.


I don't think you understand how the NHL revenue sharing system works.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:10 pm

Honestly I'd love to have Getzlaf on the Canucks.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Potatoe1 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:21 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Honestly I'd love to have Getzlaf on the Canucks.


Of course you would.

Every team in the league with the ability to squeeze him under their internal or external salary cap would take him at this price.

That is why this "bad contract" stuff is such nonsense.

If just about everyone would love to have him at the 8.25, then how can it be claimed that the deal is a poor one.

Excellent signing for the Ducks, hopefully they can get Perry for something similar.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby okcanuck » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:39 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:
okcanuck wrote: Actually it does matter matter what I "think" about Getzlaf's contract. I'm indirectly subsidizing his contract by buying Canucks tickets, buying Canucks jerseys, etc. etc. ,because Anaheim is inept at running their franchise properly.


I don't think you understand how the NHL revenue sharing system works.


Am I wrong? Is Anaheim not in the bottom 15 revenue earning teams and the Canucks in the the top ten?
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Strangelove » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:02 pm

Island Nucklehead wrote:Is he in Crosby/Malkin territory? Is he worth Stamkos money?


Getzlaf is 27 and will be 35 when his contract expires.

If Crosby retires on his 35th birthday he will have earned $95.4mil between this summer and then.

An average of $10.6mil per season.

Malkin will be 27 when his present contract expires, we’ll see what he gets about 1 year henceforth.

Stamkos will be 26 when his contract expires, we’ll see what he gets about 3 years henceforth.

.
Last edited by Strangelove on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Meds » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:25 pm

I think some of what we are seeing is NHL owners and GM's in the US running their teams like they would an NBA, NFL, or MLB franchise.

In the NBA you can pretty much be competitive with 3 players making huge cash and eating up 50%, or more, of your total salary cap. Those 3 guys can almost guarantee you 60 points a game, probably closer to 70, and on a good night as much as 80. That leaves you with 7-9 roster spots to fill, and all you need from them is a combined 30-40 points (4-6 ppg) to have a shot at winning. Doling out cap space and salary accordingly is relatively easy.

In the NFL you have an offense and a defense, they are never on the field at the same time. You can decide as a manager if you want your team to win by out scoring opponents or win by shutting them down. So you can spend big on one side or the other, and the reality is that of 53 roster spots you only need to go big on a handful of players to make it happen because the lower tier players are only on the field for a play or so and then off again.

In MLB you pretty much buy your team and hope that they deliver a World Series championship. It's totally based on finance and number crunching. There is no salary cap, just a luxury tax.....and in 2012 the threshold was a whopping $178M, and the Yankees spent $198M at the top while the Padre's spent $55M at the bottom. That is a massive difference in payroll.

Hockey is a different animal. Your top players will play half the game at most. They have to be responsible for both offense and defense. Hopefully they spend more time on the former rather than the latter. The players who are considered to be "second tier" guys in the NHL have to be ready to step up, they are expected to contribute in all areas, they aren't specialist players, depending on the player and the team some of them will be given a more offensive or defensive role, but they need to be versatile. The support roles are much more critical to team success because they are going to be on the ice for half the game, so you can't just run out and spend huge on your top 5 guys and then stock your bottom 9 with AHL regulars.....at least not if you want anything more than the bragging rights that go with som individual player awards.

That does not mean I disagree with people who say the Getzlaf got market value.....he did. But it will be interesting to see how competitive the Ducks are next year if they do keep Perry for the same money.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Meds » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:27 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Island Nucklehead wrote:Is he in Crosby/Malkin territory? Is he worth Stamkos money?


Stamkos is 27 and will be 35 when his contract expires.

...

Stamkos will be 26 when his contract expires, we’ll see what he gets about 3 years henceforth.


WTF? :look:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:28 pm

Meds wrote:I think some of what we are seeing is NHL owners and GM's in the US running their teams like they would an NBA, NFL, or MLB franchise.

In the NBA you can pretty much be competitive with 3 players making huge cash and eating up 50%, or more, of your total salary cap. Those 3 guys can almost guarantee you 60 points a game, probably closer to 70, and on a good night as much as 80. That leaves you with 7-9 roster spots to fill, and all you need from them is a combined 30-40 points (4-6 ppg) to have a shot at winning. Doling out cap space and salary accordingly is relatively easy.

In the NFL you have an offense and a defense, they are never on the field at the same time. You can decide as a manager if you want your team to win by out scoring opponents or win by shutting them down. So you can spend big on one side or the other, and the reality is that of 53 roster spots you only need to go big on a handful of players to make it happen because the lower tier players are only on the field for a play or so and then off again.

In MLB you pretty much buy your team and hope that they deliver a World Series championship. It's totally based on finance and number crunching. There is no salary cap, just a luxury tax.....and in 2012 the threshold was a whopping $178M, and the Yankees spent $198M at the top while the Padre's spent $55M at the bottom. That is a massive difference in payroll.

Hockey is a different animal. Your top players will play half the game at most. They have to be responsible for both offense and defense. Hopefully they spend more time on the former rather than the latter. The players who are considered to be "second tier" guys in the NHL have to be ready to step up, they are expected to contribute in all areas, they aren't specialist players, depending on the player and the team some of them will be given a more offensive or defensive role, but they need to be versatile. The support roles are much more critical to team success because they are going to be on the ice for half the game, so you can't just run out and spend huge on your top 5 guys and then stock your bottom 9 with AHL regulars.....at least not if you want anything more than the bragging rights that go with som individual player awards.

That does not mean I disagree with people who say the Getzlaf got market value.....he did. But it will be interesting to see how competitive the Ducks are next year if they do keep Perry for the same money.



Shit you don't even need defence with forwards like that. You'd never lose. We could trade both Luongo and Cory and all we would need is a pylon in the net. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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