Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Larry Goodenough » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:05 pm

Fred wrote:This rule ie call ups being returned immediately doesn't really matter in the East, most teams have their farms teams either close by or in the case of TO in the same city. But in the West it's a huge obstacle. The assignment should be the factor not the travel required. The rule is from the last century


?

The rule is fairly new and is supposed to stop teams from placing all their players on the farm for the playoffs once the NHL team is out.

No matter what the rule, Edmonton management is unable to figure it out while the 29 other teams can.

Now, it’s not clear what, exactly, Lowe is talking about. It sounds like he’s talking about the clear day roster rule in the AHL – that’s the rule that prevents teams from sending six or eight players down at the end of the season. If you aren’t on the clear day roster, you can’t play. But that’s not really the issue here – the issue here is the fact that the Oilers are limited to four recalls post trade deadline. That’s why MPS wasn’t allowed to play. I think that’s the rule that GMs are up in arms about – Brian Burke was all upset about that immediately post trade deadline.

Of course, the Oilers burned one of those recalls doing a paper recall with MPS, in which they were effectively trying to game the AHL rules and do what the clear day rule is designed to prevent. So I’ve literally no idea what Lowe’s point is here. The AHL rules are intended to try and make sure that AHLers are the ones play in the AHL playoffs by limiting eligibility to those who were on AHL rosters towards the end of the year. There’s a dodge, the paper demotion/recall, which comes with a cost of burning one of the recalls that the NHL CBA permits you. The Oilers incurred this cost with MPS and then, apparently, were stunned when the bill came due.

It’s hard to overstate how stupid this defence is. It’s tantamount to saying “Well, we were totally aware of the rules, we just thought that they were stupid and therefore inapplicable.” This is the dumbest defence possible. “We had no idea that there were any rules whatsoever and it never occurred to us to ask” would be a better defence. I don’t understand how the Oilers could possibly have thought that this recall was permissible, based on what Lowe’s said.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Arachnid » Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:15 pm

Fred wrote:This rule ie call ups being returned immediately doesn't really matter in the East, most teams have their farms teams either close by or in the case of TO in the same city. But in the West it's a huge obstacle. The assignment should be the factor not the travel required. The rule is from the last century


Maybe the cOilers should have their farm team in Calagary 8-)

Jeesh, gotta love their young talent though...Teemu Hartikainen looks like another good Fin....
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Fred » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:32 pm

What amazes me, I drive every summer to the east coast and always take the US route. You pass through so many towns that have AHL franchises and the distances are relatively short. Nothing like Vcr / Chi or Edmon/Oklahoma. I always thought it gutsy of Calgary to put a team in Abby ( not sure but I believe they have to contribute to visitors travel costs ? ) Vcr has always wanted a team that's run similar to an NHL format, support,media, travel to make their players comfortable when they move on to the NHL, as I understand. The downside is the distance
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:17 pm

I actually like the way Edmonton is going. They should get another top pick/top young player this summer which will add to their core. Maybe stink one more year and they'll be set. In a few years, I think they'll being giving the canucks a lot of problems and challenge for the cup.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby wienerdog » Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:35 am

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I actually like the way Edmonton is going. They should get another top pick/top young player this summer which will add to their core. Maybe stink one more year and they'll be set. In a few years, I think they'll being giving the canucks a lot of problems and challenge for the cup.


EDM had no defense. And Dubnyk is hardly Contender quality.

The Oil are a loooooooong way away from challenging anything.

They have to clean out their front office first. Then they have to convince their rising stars to commit to the franchise and the city. With role models like Nash in CLB, that should be a cakewalk... :hmmm:
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:12 pm

I think Dubnyk will be fine. He's like 500 on a bottom team and his save pct is like .915 on a team that has "no defense". Just draft a couple of quality D-men or sign them through free agency and they will be good to go. If I were them, I wouldn't open the bank just yet on big name free agents. I'd turtle for 1 more year.


wienerdog wrote:EDM had no defense. And Dubnyk is hardly Contender quality.

The Oil are a loooooooong way away from challenging anything.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Larry Goodenough » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:35 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I actually like the way Edmonton is going. They should get another top pick/top young player this summer which will add to their core. Maybe stink one more year and they'll be set. In a few years, I think they'll being giving the canucks a lot of problems and challenge for the cup.


There is 6 pages of examples of extremely poor or incompetent management examples here.

You may like the young players Edm has coming, but the point is any clod GM can quit trying and draft 1st overall. It takes complex and modern management to build and keep a winning team together.

If you use capgeek.com on july 1st, give Sutton $1.8m (when Rome makes .775m) and blow your 4th recall because you're too stupid to ask for clarification from the league, you are a clod GM.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby BingoTough » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:35 pm

wienerdog wrote:They have to clean out their front office first. Then they have to convince their rising stars to commit to the franchise and the city. With role models like Nash in CLB, that should be a cakewalk... :hmmm:


I have no problem with great players wanting off crappy teams. Why not? We're seeing a generation of great players squandering their talent on badly managed teams. Who can blame Nash. They're nowhere near contending for a cup, why shouldn't he want off.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Meds » Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:45 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I actually like the way Edmonton is going. They should get another top pick/top young player this summer which will add to their core. Maybe stink one more year and they'll be set. In a few years, I think they'll being giving the canucks a lot of problems and challenge for the cup.


4 years from now the Oiler's will not have all of Eberle, Hall, and Nugent-Hopkins. If they add to that young core with another top 3 pick they will only have more problems down the line when it comes to retaining these players when they start to reach their potential and they enter RFA.

Ironically that is not the real problem for the Oiler's. They still have options when it comes to building around a young core, IF those players are willing to stay in Edmonton that is. If Oil's management builds around anyone other than Nugent-Hopkins they are morons. Hall is a one dimensional player. Eberle is an upgrade on him in that department but lacks the speed that Hall brings. RNH is a bit faster than Eberle and he thinks the game faster and better than Hall and Eberle combined.

The other real problem they have is the durability of those youngsters. Hall has been sidelined for significant periods of time twice now. Eberle twice as well I think, and Nugent-Hopkins ended up missing nearly half a season after tripping and sliding into the boards shoulder first, he wasn't going overly fast either.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby wienerdog » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:59 am

BingoTough wrote:I have no problem with great players wanting off crappy teams.


Hey, neither do I.

And if any of the kids in Edmonton have any brains, they won't either.

You misread my tone: I was posting in response to Bersnoozi's assertions, and basically, I couldn't disagree with him more.

To be clear: I certainly don't "blame" Nash in any way for wanting out of Columbus. My example was just to show that when it comes time to sign a long-term deal on the dotted line, players like Eberle and RNH shouldn't do so if that franchise is still shit - thereby literally learning from Nash's mistake.

Bersnoozi thinks they are close to "Contender" status. That literally made me laugh out loud. One of my best mates is an Edmontonian and I have vicariously lived the struggles of this franchise. His near permanent sad-sack state attests that as of today, they are still freaking light-years away from contending for anything.

Remember the beginning of this season? People were shitting their pants about EDM being at the top of table. Everyone and their dog was jumping onto their "breakout year" success story. Anyone with a half brain figured out that their tenders were playing way over their heads and that the breakout was a mirage. Tambellini hadn't done shit to address the underlying problems of that team.

Now? Surprise, surprise: they are cellar dwellers again, and they will remain there until a competent front office takes the reins. Coach included, IMO. Start from scratch.

A new and very shrewd GM *might* be able to fast-track a rise to prominence for that team, but the monkeys running that show are not taking it anywhere, no matter how many top 3 picks they accumulate.

I can't think of a more embarrasing NHL debacle - this isn't some sunbelt franchise. Just imagine if Poile was running the show.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Larry Goodenough » Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:57 pm

Stills seems like no matter the top picks, the "boys are back in town' headlines or the false TSN sponsored hype, you can't do anything with boobs running your team.....

http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/3/8/408 ... er-changed

My favourite part....

" Optimists further claim we're just following the path of Chicago and Pittsburgh, accumulating young talent, but the catch was that after those teams got the young talent they also got a hockey team and started winning games with it. The Oilers just go on eight consecutive one-year rebuilds, promising that we'll totally make the playoffs next time. If I spent the better part of a decade being the worst person in the world at my job I'm fairly sure I'd be sucking dicks for spare change on East Hastings by now."
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby BurningBeard » Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:14 am

wienerdog wrote:Coach included, IMO. Start from scratch.

Yeah, I have to wonder why this team hasn't hired Lindy Ruff yet... he has experience working with soft forwards in Buffalo.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby BigTuna » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:25 am

Edmonton's last 3 first overalls is actually the weakest trio of first overalls in a looong time. They may have "Tanked" at the wrong time.


People always think the Oilers will be the net Pittsburgh or Chicago, but leave out teams like the Isles, Panthers, and Blue Jackets.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Boston Canucker » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:27 am

BigTuna wrote:Edmonton's last 3 first overalls is actually the weakest trio of first overalls in a looong time. They may have "Tanked" at the wrong time.


People always think the Oilers will be the net Pittsburgh or Chicago, but leave out teams like the Isles, Panthers, and Blue Jackets.


I saw on ESPN that Pierre LeBrun referred to the Oilers as one of the disappointments in the West thus far. Disappointing simply because they don't seem to be in a serious hunt for a playoff spot, even the 7-8 spot. I was happy to see this because the Oil has been getting a free ride for too long. Imagine being a fan of that bottom dwelling team for all these years and keep getting the "we have a plan...next year we'll be better" line? At some point, it's got to pay off; you've got to surround the young guys with players that can mentor and win. Tamby/Lowe have not done that. RNH has hit the sophmore wall. Hall has injury history. Maybe it will all work out and they'll be carrying the Cup around in the next 3-4 years....but for all that pain that today's Oiler's fans have dealt with, the payoff has to be a real Cup contender, not a 6-8 seed give it a shot, hope for a run team...they could have had that without sucking so bad.
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Re: Why the Oilers "rebuild" is truly doomed

Postby Larry Goodenough » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:15 am

Now they have one more year before Nugent-Hopkins has to get paid. The first year was halved by injuries and this year is halved by the lockout. The team bar says he'll be getting $6M after playing about 150 games because they rushed to sign Eberle and Hall to big deals despite having leverage. In two more seasons, Yakapov will have to get paid $6M too.

Gagner and Pajaarvi are up at the end of the season. Gagner will get over $4-5M a year as he's making $3.2 now. Pajaarvi's entry level deal expires in June and he's is another who will have played about 150 games with no impact before he has to get paid.

Smid and Whitney are UFAs at the end of the year. They have no d-men signed past next season.

Dubnyk has a year left and he's a UFA. Justin Schultz and Petry have one year left and they'll need to get paid too.

There's the rub of rushing guys into the league at 18/19/20 years old. They're entry level deals are done before they are generally able to lead a team, but you have to turn around and pay them for the potential they might have going forward. Then there is nothing left to pay for the depth. Add that to the fact Edmonton management has little grasp on how to negotiate (ie Belanger, Sutton, Horcoff) and they continue to be doomed.
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