Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby Zamboni Driver » Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:43 am

The_Pauser wrote:My very rough projection for next season:

Sedin (6.10) - Sedin (6.10) - Kassian (0.870)
Booth (4.25) - Kesler (5.00) - Burrows (4.50)
Jensen (0.894) - Schroeder (1.25*) - Hansen (1.35)
Volpatti (0.600*) - Lapierre (1.50*) - Weise (0.700*)

Hamhuis (4.50) - Bieksa (4.60)
Edler (5.00) - Tanev (1.50*)
Garrison (4.60) - Corrado (0.600)

Schneider (4.00)
Lack (0.750)

Forwards: $33.114M
Defense: $20.80M
Goalies: $4.75M
Team: $58.664M

Cap space: $5.336M

We have just over $5M for 2 depth defensemen, 1 depth forward (assuming the same set-up as this year, and to include whatever NHL assets we get back from a Luongo trade and a Ballard trade.


I'd be more inclined to keep Ballard and dump Booth, unless Booth has a spectacular year when he comes back.
I like how Higgins & Raymond have been playing. I wouldn't want to rely on Corrado or Jensen until they've had a few months in the big leage. What kind of depth defenceman would you get in the $1.5 mil range? Alberts? :hmmm:
Jensen should be on the 3rd/4th line until he learns & proves he can play at this level, maybe drop Hansen to the 4th line. Corrado will get time on defence when one of the top 6 gets injured (and you know that they will)
No point in spending $6 mil to buy out Ballard unless there is a replacement at least as good.
Kassian needs to show that he can give solid effort for a 60 minute game before he can be a top line winger

We need a blue chip D and a 1st/2nd line center for the future, I'm guessing that GMMG is asking for a top prospect and/or high pick in return for a goalie. I doubt that we will be getting a current #1 D or 1st line center, nobody can afford to give them up.

Sedin (6.10) - Sedin (6.10) - Burrows (4.50)
Raymond (2.5) - Kesler (5.00) - Kassian (0.870)
Higgins (2.0) - Schroeder (1.25*) - Hansen (1.35)
Volpatti (0.600*) - Lapierre (1.50*) - Jensen (0.894)

Hamhuis (4.50) - Edler (5.00)
Garrison (4.60)- Bieksa (4.60)
Tanev (1.50*) - Ballard (4.2)

Schneider (4.00)
Lack (0.750)

Weise (0.700*)
Corrado (0.600)

Forwards: $32.75M
Defense: $24.40M
Goalies: $4.75M
Press box: $1.3M
Team: $63.35M

Cap space: $1.1M
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby SKYO » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:37 am

Instead of buying out Booth and Ballard this offseason or next, I'd be more inclined to package Booth up for a quality rental, like Iginla or Perry.

&

Ballard+ for a 3rd line solid checking center who can put up 15g-20a type.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby Reefer2 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:10 am

SKYO wrote:Instead of buying out Booth and Ballard this offseason or next, I'd be more inclined to package Booth up for a quality rental, like Iginla or Perry.

&

Ballard+ for a 3rd line solid checking center who can put up 15g-20a type.


Perry (assuming you mean Corey Perry) would take a hell of a lot more than Booth and anything we have to package him up with.

Ballard's value is so low I highly doubt we would get someone like you mentioned, would love to see that type of deal but it wont happen. Plus maybe we should keep him, we always lose one of the top 4 to injury so it is nice to have some insurance.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby RoyalDude » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:26 pm

SKYO wrote:
Ballard+ for a 3rd line solid checking center who can put up 15g-20a type.


Then send Schroeder back to the farm? That's progressive development at it's finest.

Are we still not done experimenting with the 3rd line Shut Down Center theory?

I remember the days when Ryan Kesler was considered a great up and coming shut down center-man. What, he can no longer check?
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:42 pm

Zamboni Driver wrote:
I'd be more inclined to keep Ballard and dump Booth, unless Booth has a spectacular year when he comes back.
I like how Higgins & Raymond have been playing. I wouldn't want to rely on Corrado or Jensen until they've had a few months in the big leage. What kind of depth defenceman would you get in the $1.5 mil range? Alberts? :hmmm:
Jensen should be on the 3rd/4th line until he learns & proves he can play at this level, maybe drop Hansen to the 4th line. Corrado will get time on defence when one of the top 6 gets injured (and you know that they will)
No point in spending $6 mil to buy out Ballard unless there is a replacement at least as good.
Kassian needs to show that he can give solid effort for a 60 minute game before he can be a top line winger

We need a blue chip D and a 1st/2nd line center for the future, I'm guessing that GMMG is asking for a top prospect and/or high pick in return for a goalie. I doubt that we will be getting a current #1 D or 1st line center, nobody can afford to give them up.

Sedin (6.10) - Sedin (6.10) - Burrows (4.50)
Raymond (2.5) - Kesler (5.00) - Kassian (0.870)
Higgins (2.0) - Schroeder (1.25*) - Hansen (1.35)
Volpatti (0.600*) - Lapierre (1.50*) - Jensen (0.894)

Hamhuis (4.50) - Edler (5.00)
Garrison (4.60)- Bieksa (4.60)
Tanev (1.50*) - Ballard (4.2)

Schneider (4.00)
Lack (0.750)

Weise (0.700*)
Corrado (0.600)

Forwards: $32.75M
Defense: $24.40M
Goalies: $4.75M
Press box: $1.3M
Team: $63.35M

Cap space: $1.1M


You're not accounting for what we might get back in a Luongo trade. I really don't think we can just give him away for strictly futures, or garbage that won't play on our team.

Also, I recall a Gillis interview a couple weeks ago where he mentioned we might lose more FA's than usual and he expects us to be able to replace those players from within, with cheaper ELC's. That's why I would expect Jensen to make the team, and had him on the 3rd line as you've also discussed.

Corrado impressed at camp this year, and has continued his outstanding play in the OHL. Given our lack of depth on the right side I would expect Corrado to be given every opportunity to make the team similar to Chris Tanev, in a 3rd pairing low pressure role. Tanev gets a promotion to the top 4 (in name only as I expect all pairings to see similar even strength ice-time), and we get back to having our big 3 LHD's on their comfortable sides.

I would look to flip Ballard for a draft pick, as opposed to buying him out or keeping him. Buying out Booth, IMO, should be considered if only to give us cap space to go after Corey Perry, otherwise I don't see why we would get rid of him. He's a very serviceable left wing power forward who's become extremely underrated amongst Canucks fans.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:44 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
SKYO wrote:
Ballard+ for a 3rd line solid checking center who can put up 15g-20a type.


Then send Schroeder back to the farm? That's progressive development at it's finest.

Are we still not done experimenting with the 3rd line Shut Down Center theory?

I remember the days when Ryan Kesler was considered a great up and coming shut down center-man. What, he can no longer check?


If we're getting back a guy who's going to score 15g-20a THIS season I'd be willing to do it. But if those numbers are what he'd get over an 82 game season then I'm not interested at all. Schroeder deserves to be here.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:50 pm

yes because there are a plethora of third line centres who will pout up 15 and 20 in 48 games. Jesus Christ.

I think Schroeder will be a decent player one day but if MG doesn't add to the centre ice depth here i can smell another early playoff exit . The 500 pound line will be fine in the regular season but these guys won't be putting up any numbers in the post season.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:40 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:yes because there are a plethora of third line centres who will pout up 15 and 20 in 48 games. Jesus Christ.

I think Schroeder will be a decent player one day but if MG doesn't add to the centre ice depth here i can smell another early playoff exit . The 500 pound line will be fine in the regular season but these guys won't be putting up any numbers in the post season.


Why won't they? And do you really think another non-offensive 3C type will put up offense in the playoffs? I guess you need to re-watch the Canucks version 2011 or version 2012 to see how bad our offense is. Not saying Schroeder will be the saviour, but at least he's got the skills to push the pace and creativity to make something happen. Shelter him like crazy in the playoffs and he'll put up some decent production.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby Diehard1 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:46 pm

The_Pauser wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:yes because there are a plethora of third line centres who will pout up 15 and 20 in 48 games. Jesus Christ.

I think Schroeder will be a decent player one day but if MG doesn't add to the centre ice depth here i can smell another early playoff exit . The 500 pound line will be fine in the regular season but these guys won't be putting up any numbers in the post season.


Why won't they? And do you really think another non-offensive 3C type will put up offense in the playoffs? I guess you need to re-watch the Canucks version 2011 or version 2012 to see how bad our offense is. Not saying Schroeder will be the saviour, but at least he's got the skills to push the pace and creativity to make something happen. Shelter him like crazy in the playoffs and he'll put up some decent production.


The Canucks had the best offence in the game in 2011 and it wasn't close. You're taking 1 series and projecting it across the whole season - one series where they were bullied into submission and the refs did not a fucking thing about it. Yes I'm still bitter. Anyway - the offence is good but i agree that one more big bodied forward would be great. He doesn't have to actually play center but I would love to see a guy who can take face offs as that's now a deficiency on the team. Hank just isn't good enough on the left side draw to take crucial defensive zone draws.

I would love a Brooks Laich type center/winger who can take draws - he is too expensive in cap hit unless significant dollars go the other way, but somebody like that would be great.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:48 pm

Have you watched the last few playoffs ??? The last three teams to win were skilled with great D but they were also huge. Raymond was useless in 2011.

Where do you get the idea that I want to see a non offensive checking centre anchoring the third line. I just think you're out to lunch if you think they will be able to pick up a 60 point (pro rated for 48 games of course) guy to center the third line. They do need someone a bit bigger than Schroeder but he has to be able to put up some points and play decent d.....pretty tough player to find right now .

As for sheltering Schroeder in the playoffs .....putting him with a 190 pound Hansen and a 160 pound Raymond isn't getting it done. Cliff Ronning played his best hockey in Vancouver when Pat Quinn put Momesso and Sandlak with him. Oter than Kassian Vancouver doesn't have another real big forward to put with JS. Maybe Higgins ??? Booth ? That line would be a nightmare defensively though.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:05 pm

Diehard1 wrote:The Canucks had the best offence in the game in 2011 and it wasn't close. You're taking 1 series and projecting it across the whole season - one series where they were bullied into submission and the refs did not a fucking thing about it. Yes I'm still bitter. Anyway - the offence is good but i agree that one more big bodied forward would be great. He doesn't have to actually play center but I would love to see a guy who can take face offs as that's now a deficiency on the team. Hank just isn't good enough on the left side draw to take crucial defensive zone draws.

I would love a Brooks Laich type center/winger who can take draws - he is too expensive in cap hit unless significant dollars go the other way, but somebody like that would be great.


1 series? Did you even watch the 2011 playoffs? Let me give you the breakdown:

Chicago series we averaged 2.29GF/game (2.18GF/60)
Nashville series we averaged 2.33GF/game (2.07GF/60)
San Jose series we averaged 4GF/game (3.65GF/60)
Boston series we averaged 1.14GF/game (1.14GF/60).

I don't expect San Jose series like numbers, but let's compare to the LA Kings of last year, and the Boston Bruins of 2011:

Kings
Vancouver series they averaged 2.4GF/game
St. Louis series they averaged 3.75GF/game
Phoenix series they averaged 2.80GF/game
New Jersey series they averaged 2.67GF/game

Bruins
Montreal series they averaged 2.43GF/game
Philadelphia series they averaged 5GF/game
Tampa series they averaged 3GF/game
Vancouver series they averaged 3.29GF/game

In both of these teams cases, neither of them had an offensive series that was worse than our series vs. Boston, Chicago or Nashville. In addition, our series vs. LA was almost on par with the Boston series as we averaged 1.20GF/game. So yes, our offense is a definite area of concern.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:07 pm

How about something like....

Trade Lou + Raymond to Florida for Weiss + Matthias + Petrovic + Theodore/Clemmensen

Schoeder, Ebbett, Vandermeer play with the Wolves until after the deadline.

PLAYOFFS:

Dank - Hank - Burr
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian/Hansen
Booth - Weiss - Kassian/Hansen
Matthias - Lappy - Weise
Schroeder
Volpatti
Ebbett

Hamhuis - Edler
Garrison- Bieksa
Tanev - Ballard
Alberts
Vandermeer
Barker

Schneider
Theo/Clem


eh.... EH?? :thumbs:
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:09 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Have you watched the last few playoffs ??? The last three teams to win were skilled with great D but they were also huge. Raymond was useless in 2011.

Where do you get the idea that I want to see a non offensive checking centre anchoring the third line. I just think you're out to lunch if you think they will be able to pick up a 60 point (pro rated for 48 games of course) guy to center the third line. They do need someone a bit bigger than Schroeder but he has to be able to put up some points and play decent d.....pretty tough player to find right now .

As for sheltering Schroeder in the playoffs .....putting him with a 190 pound Hansen and a 160 pound Raymond isn't getting it done. Cliff Ronning played his best hockey in Vancouver when Pat Quinn put Momesso and Sandlak with him. Oter than Kassian Vancouver doesn't have another real big forward to put with JS. Maybe Higgins ??? Booth ? That line would be a nightmare defensively though.


So because we have ONE small player all of a sudden we are in trouble? Hansen actually weighs in at 201 pounds according to his Yahoo Sports profile, and Raymond weighs in at 182 pounds, a far cry from the 160 that you suggested. We still have players with good size, although I do agree another one would be useful. Doesn't have to be at the expense of Schroeder though.

And yes, if we could acquire someone like Stephen Weiss (Luongo trade?) I would definitely be interested in that.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby The_Pauser » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:11 pm

Strangelove wrote:How about something like....

Trade Lou + Raymond to Florida for Weiss + Matthias + Petrovic + Theodore/Clemmensen

Schoeder, Ebbett, Vandermeer play with the Wolves until after the deadline.

PLAYOFFS:

Dank - Hank - Burr
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian/Hansen
Booth - Weiss - Kassian/Hansen
Matthias - Lappy - Weise
Schroeder
Volpatti
Ebbett

Hamhuis - Edler
Garrison- Bieksa
Tanev - Ballard
Alberts
Vandermeer
Barker

Schneider
Theo/Clem


eh.... EH?? :thumbs:


I am still against benching Schroeder. I believe he deserves to be here. He's played very well in his brief stint so far, and contrary to what people might think he's very good defensively.

If we did a trade that you mention I wouldn't mind seeing this:

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Booth-Weiss-Kesler
Raymond-Schroeder-Kassian
Higgins-Lapierre-Hansen

forget Shawn Matthias...he's not that good of a hockey player and we really don't need another plug like him.
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Re: Looking Ahead - The Salary Cap

Postby Strangelove » Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:21 pm

Nah, I like mine better: 3 two-way scoring lines! :thumbs:

Matthias is a big strong 2-way player who hits hard and can play centre, good faceoff man.

Weiss is also good in the dot.

Schroeder is inexperienced and struggles in the faceoff department thus far.

Don't wanna go with a small rookie centre in the playoffs unless forced to by injuries.
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