So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:31 pm

Lou for david backes. :D
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:53 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:The Blues continue to struggle in the nets, lost 4-1 tonight. Elliott continues to crap the bed. They have the 2nd worst GA in the Western Conference. They are one of those team where an injection of quality goaltending could make them a Stanley Cup contender. I see a good fit, that is, if they were in the Eastern Conference. But there were rumors earlier of a possible Chicago deal, so why can't a Lou to St Lou deal be possible?


Because St. Loo is for sale and the team is close to being bankrupt? No chance he goes to St. Loo.


Um, both Halak and Elliotts contracts come to an end after the 2013-2014 season. Halak will make 4.5 million this year and next year (last year of contract) with a cap hit of 3,750,000 million. Elliott will make 1.9 million this year and next year (last year of contract) with a cap hit of 1,800,000 million. They package Halak as part of a Lou trade, Elliott is gone after next year, just how the fuck is Luongo's $6.7 million (5.3 million cap hit) so terribly hard for the Blues to deal with after Elliott and Halak are out of the picture? Holy c(r)ow batman! Both Halak's and Elliotts contracts amount to the same as Luongo. Throw a cheapo back up behind Lou in St Lou, it becomes pretty much a hair bit more in price than the combo of Halak and Elliott. Totally do-able, ya schnauzer.

Even if they decide to keep Elliott as a back up in which everybody knows they won't cause he sucks, that is unless he takes a serious hair cut like he should. Luongo's contract is only 2 million more than Halak's? Is that breaking the fucking bank? duh, no. For only 2 million they get a seriously good upgrade in nets. How is that not good business?

Andy MacDonald makes $4.7 million, he is off the books next year as he is a UFA this summer. His replacements? Rookies - Schwartz and/or Rattie.

Diehard, do your fucking homework before ya pms on me


You said it yourself - Halak and Elliott are up soon. Lu has 9.5 years and over $40 million left on his deal. The Blues can sign a couple of goalies for a couple of million dollars or somewhere around $15 or $20 million over the next 9 years, or they can pay Lu over $40 million for the same term. I know you live in capland where nothing matters but cap hit, but businesses actually care about dollars spent, not cap hit.

I understand that business is not your strong suit, but for a team that is trying to sell itself the last thing they want is to lose more money, be that $2 million, $5 million or $10 million a season. It's not happening.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:55 pm

JelloPuddingPop wrote:I think his point was that Halak is due 8.75 millon and Lou is due ~ 47 million (I know this year is pro-rated for both, but for argument's sake).

That is large amount of dollar value to commit for an organization that is not on the "making money" list. They got rid of a great hockey mind in Davidson, just to save a bit. The likelihood of taking on this type of contract is slim to none.


Yep, in the real world dollars matters. In RD's world it doesn't. Must be nice to have the kind of money he has.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:12 pm

Diehard1 wrote:
You said it yourself - Halak and Elliott are up soon. Lu has 9.5 years and over $40 million left on his deal. The Blues can sign a couple of goalies for a couple of million dollars or somewhere around $15 or $20 million over the next 9 years, or they can pay Lu over $40 million for the same term. I know you live in capland where nothing matters but cap hit, but businesses actually care about dollars spent, not cap hit.

I understand that business is not your strong suit, but for a team that is trying to sell itself the last thing they want is to lose more money, be that $2 million, $5 million or $10 million a season. It's not happening.


This is a stupid argument cause Lou ain't ever gonna be a Blue NOT cause the Blues may or may not be able to afford him but because the Blues are in the Western Conf. and Lou would not waive to go there, that being said you do realize that even after you, I, Luongo, Elliott and Halak have long parted this earth that the Blues will still need a goalie? And that no. 1 goalies are expensive, I believe that over half the no. 1 starters in the league make $4 million and up. The rest are your Dubnyks, Lindbacks, Reimers, Holtby's blah, blah, blah and you do realize that Luongo only makes roughly a little more than $2million more than Halak, WOW! Breaking the fucking bank here! And that Elliott is consdered and expensive back up. You do realize that Halak is an easy trade cause his contract is over after the 2013/14 season. What GM's call a workable contract. You do realize that Andy '35 Year Old' McDonald who makes 4.7 million is a UFA at the end of this season, can you say "Hello Ty Rattie" and your inexpensive contract. Be prepared to see a lot of Ty Ratties in the league next year, getting the fast track to the NHL.

You do realize that after this season that Luongo has only 5 more seasons on his contract that pays him the 6 million something he is getting now, after that it goes to $3 million for one year, he will be the age Brodeur is now, then the last two years are $1 million each. Whoa, such a terrible contract. Ain't no fucking reason why Luongo can't be playing the game until he is 40. How old is Kiprusoff? how old is Thomas? How old is Brodeur? How old was Osgood when he quit, how old was Hasek? Luongo takes better care of himself than most NHL'ers out there, doesn't have a reputation for having injuries, ie Halak.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:24 pm

RoyalDude wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:You do realize that after this season that Luongo has only 5 more seasons on his contract that pays him the 6 million something he is getting now, after that it goes to $3 million for one year, he will be the age Brodeur is now, then the last two years are $1 million each. Whoa, such a terrible contract. Ain't no fucking reason why Luongo can't be playing the game until he is 40. How old is Kiprusoff? how old is Thomas? How old is Brodeur? How old was Osgood when he quit, how old was Hasek? Luongo takes better care of himself than most NHL'ers out there, doesn't have a reputation for having injuries, ie Halak.


So diehard says that Lou has $40M left on his deal.....

Now you ask him if he realizes that Lou will actually only have $35M left on his deal after this year.....

The reality is that after this season he has 5 more yeats that pay him $6.7M = $33.5M
+
A year at $3.4M = $36.9M
+
A year at $1.6M = $38.5M
+
2 years at $1M = $40.5M

Wait a minute.....that's exactly what Diehard1 said. :shock:

:drink:
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:24 pm

Meds wrote:
How's about this RD.....

Andy McDonald
Chris Steward
Patrick Berglund
Jamie Langenbrunner
Matt D'Agostini
Alex Pietrangelo
Kevin Shattenkirk
Ian Cole
Kris Russell

That's the list of players on St. Louis who will be UFA/RFA next year.

Stewart, Pietrangelo, and Shattenkirk, will all be getting raises, the latter pair likely substantial ones. I expect them both to be close to Edler's pay scale. Stewart will probably only go up about $500K, though it is conceivable he could get an offer for a bit more.....on the other hand, considering the market with the new cap he might take a haircut too.

They have at least 5 forward spots to fill and 4 holes on the blueline come July. Add in the fact that they will have a couple more holes to fill in planning ahead to 2014, and factor all of that in with the fact that they are a tight budget team and you see why Luongo doesn't fit there with his salary.

On top of all of that, the Canucks need to shed a bit of cap space in a deal that sends out Lou. They can't just dump him for some low salary prospects and a mid salary youngster, as that's not a possibility (at least not likely). Failing that they are going to want something worthwhile if it means taking back any think significant capwise. So absorbing a contract like Halak's isn't something that Gillis is going to want to consider at this point. In fact, given Halak's up and down nature, I don't think many teams will want to take him off of St. Louis' hands for anything worthwhile. Elliot's contract is indeed a bit more manageable for a potential trading partner with St. Louis. $1.9M isn't a terrible buyout if it comes down to that.

But there are plent of reasons why St. Louis isn't a destination for Luongo. One more would be that given their salary restrictions and upcoming RFA/UFA situation, they may not be a contending team, even with Luongo, come next season. So in that case Lou might not be willing to waive his NTC to go there.


Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk will get raises, but duh Langenbrunner and McDonald are gonzo. That's $6.2 million off the books, replaced by cheaper younger talent. Stewart makes $3 million now. No way, when the cap rolls back next year he gets more than a million dollar raise. Berglund will be lucky to get a 500 grand raise from his 2.250 million. The rest will be either, be gone, re-signed for the same or less. Wheres the fucking beef? Anyhow, it's no secret that the Blues are shopping Stewart. Probably see contract negotiation issues with him this summer. Like I said, the Blues are very well positioned with their payroll.

Halak and Elliott's grand total of $6.4 million come off the books to UFA land after the 2013/14 season. Luongo makes a little more than $2million than Halak, replace Elliott with a cheaper back up, you are pretty much getting way better goaltending for less than 2 million per. How the fuck is that not do able? And stop your moaning about Luongo's length of contract. It's not that bad in the grand scheme of things, either way, the Blues will have to be paying somebody decent money as long as the Blues exist in the game of hockey to be their netminder. As you may have noted, half the no. 1 starters make close to $4million and upwards. Your argument is fucking feeble at best. That is, unless you think the Blues would be happy with the Reimers and Dubnyks of the world. Highly doubt that. Every team knows that you need good goaltending.
Last edited by RoyalDude on Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:27 pm

Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:You do realize that after this season that Luongo has only 5 more seasons on his contract that pays him the 6 million something he is getting now, after that it goes to $3 million for one year, he will be the age Brodeur is now, then the last two years are $1 million each. Whoa, such a terrible contract. Ain't no fucking reason why Luongo can't be playing the game until he is 40. How old is Kiprusoff? how old is Thomas? How old is Brodeur? How old was Osgood when he quit, how old was Hasek? Luongo takes better care of himself than most NHL'ers out there, doesn't have a reputation for having injuries, ie Halak.


So diehard says that Lou has $40M left on his deal.....

Now you ask him if he realizes that Lou will actually only have $35M left on his deal after this year.....

The reality is that after this season he has 5 more yeats that pay him $6.7M = $33.5M
+
A year at $3.4M = $36.9M
+
A year at $1.6M = $38.5M
+
2 years at $1M = $40.5M

Wait a minute.....that's exactly what Diehard1 said. :shock:

:drink:


Luongo makes $2.2 million more per than Halak. HOLY SHIT! THAT IS HORRIBLY EXPENSIVE! OH and guess what? LUONGO IS WORTH IT AS WELL! That is, unless you like paying $4.5 million to a goalie that is injured all the time - Halak.

Holy shit, and there is 5 more years of that left! REAL LONG TIME! Then after that it's 3.4 and then 1.6 and then 1 million. My god, so not do-able! Get yer head outta yer ass.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:37 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk will get raises, but duh Langenbrunner and McDonald are gonzo. That's $6.2 million off the books, replaced by cheaper younger talent. Stewart makes $3 million now. No way, when the cap rolls back next year he gets more than a million dollar raise. Berglund will be lucky to get a 500 grand raise from his 2.250 million.

I said as much about Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk. And actually almost exactly that about Stewart too.....something about maybe an offer of $1M more or even a haircut under the new cap. Do you actually read the posts you reply to, or just the first few lines and then go off like a firecracker without realizing that you're a complete dumbass.

Langenburnner and McDonald may or may not be gone. Both might stay for cheap if no other offers come their way, and at their age in a league where the new CBA means some teams will be scrambling to reduce cap while others are looking to gobble up some of the boughtout talent on the cheap, both of these guys might be more than willing to stay in St. Louis for bargains. Berglund may or may not get a raise in St. Louis, he might want more than that and St. Louis might trade him. Who cares really, it'll be $500K(ish) more or gone for him.

RD wrote:Halak and Elliott's grand total of $6.4 million come off the books to UFA land after the 2013/14 season. Luongo makes a little more than $2million than Halak, replace Elliott with a cheaper back up, you are pretty much getting way better goaltending for less than 2 million per. How the fuck is that not do able? And stop your moaning about Luongo's length of contract. It's not that bad in the grand scheme of things, either way, the Blues will have to be paying somebody decent money as long as the Blues exist in the game of hockey to be their netminder. As you may have noted, half the no. 1 starters make close to $4million and upwards. Your argument is fucking feeble at best. That is, unless you think the Blues would be happy with the Reimers and Dubnyks of the world. Highly doubt that. Every team knows that you need good goaltending.


The Blues will NOT have to pay someone Luongo's kind of money if they don't want to. If half the starters make $4M and up, then maybe St. Louis wants to be part of the other half? You know, the $4M and down club..... Waith, you did say "half" right? So like 50%? Why that's not a majority at all!

And as for being happy with the Reimers and Dubnyks of the world.....well maybe they will be maybe they won't. Every team does need good goaltending, but at the same time look at what the Wings did with Osgood. He played well enough for them to win, but he never cost them more than a couple of million if I recall correctly. Hmmmm.....

Going from $8M worth of committed cash in Halak to $40M committed to Luongo is a massive step up for a team that is losing money and can't commit that kind of cash in the long term. Especially one whose owner would like to sell and move on. Sorta need to have some balanced books that show at least some earning potential for a prospective buyer.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:42 pm

Meds wrote:Going from $8M worth of committed cash in Halak to $40M committed to Luongo is a massive step up for a team that is losing money and can't commit that kind of cash in the long term. Especially one whose owner would like to sell and move on. Sorta need to have some balanced books that show at least some earning potential for a prospective buyer.


Would you please stop with this lame ass argument regarding the length of contract? It doesn't fucking matter. The Blues or any fucking NHL hockey team will have to set money aside for goaltending each and every fucking year the exist in the league . Most GM's understand that if you want decent goaltending, you need to pay, bottom line. After Halak's and Elliott's contracts come to an end according to your argument, the Blues will only need chump change for a goaltender for the rest of their existence in the NHL, I guess they could if they want shite in the net but you know as well as most do, that most GM's put a certain amount of high value in the importance of having quality goaltending, which is why half the starters make $4million and up. Here is a clue, LUONGO'S LENGTH OF CONTRACT IS NOT THAT BAD!

Oh and the reason, why half get paid $4 million and up is because, well, there are only that many goalies worth their grain in fucking salt, which makes having a goalie like Luongo ummmmmm makes you somewhat lucky don't it? But hey, you seem pretty happy and put a great value on the cheapo Dubnyks of the world. Which is strange really, aren't you one of the ones who see the importance of having two no. 1's?
Last edited by RoyalDude on Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:49 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Luongo makes $2.2 million more per than Halak. HOLY SHIT! THAT IS HORRIBLY EXPENSIVE! OH and guess what? LUONGO IS WORTH IT AS WELL! That is, unless you like paying $4.5 million to a goalie that is injured all the time - Halak.

Holy shit, and there is 5 more years of that left! REAL LONG TIME! Then after that it's 3.4 and then 1.6 and then 1 million. My god, so not do-able! Get yer head outta yer ass.


Ummmm.....

So what you're saying is $7.5M + $2.2M = $40.5M...... :look:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you are going to argue about the annual cap hit don't bother. Businesses look at the bottomline first, especially ones in the financial situation the Blues are in. The last decade has proven that a Stanley Cup doesn't turn a team around financially. So bringing in Luongo, with no guarantee of a Cup even, and just hoping for things to suddenly turn around won't be enough to sway the Blues ownership.

Oh, and the other thing on the annual cap hit.....the Canucks have pretty much made the decision to let go of Luongo's $5.3M cap hit and go with Schneider at a reduced hit of $4M. Maybe, just maybe, the Blues are hoping to find a starter who is younger, less established, and going to cost less. Or maybe they hope to hit the jackpot with a guy like Anderson, you know, the goalie in Ottawa who is just stealing the show there right now and leading the league in GAA and SV%. He makes less than Halak does in St. Louis right now.

But yeah.....it's SOOOOO DOABLE.

You should try and sell the shit you drink RD. You'd make a fortune once it caught on.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:51 pm

Meds wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:Luongo makes $2.2 million more per than Halak. HOLY SHIT! THAT IS HORRIBLY EXPENSIVE! OH and guess what? LUONGO IS WORTH IT AS WELL! That is, unless you like paying $4.5 million to a goalie that is injured all the time - Halak.

Holy shit, and there is 5 more years of that left! REAL LONG TIME! Then after that it's 3.4 and then 1.6 and then 1 million. My god, so not do-able! Get yer head outta yer ass.


Ummmm.....

So what you're saying is $7.5M + $2.2M = $40.5M...... :look:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If you are going to argue about the annual cap hit don't bother. Businesses look at the bottomline first, especially ones in the financial situation the Blues are in. The last decade has proven that a Stanley Cup doesn't turn a team around financially. So bringing in Luongo, with no guarantee of a Cup even, and just hoping for things to suddenly turn around won't be enough to sway the Blues ownership.

Oh, and the other thing on the annual cap hit.....the Canucks have pretty much made the decision to let go of Luongo's $5.3M cap hit and go with Schneider at a reduced hit of $4M. Maybe, just maybe, the Blues are hoping to find a starter who is younger, less established, and going to cost less. Or maybe they hope to hit the jackpot with a guy like Anderson, you know, the goalie in Ottawa who is just stealing the show there right now and leading the league in GAA and SV%. He makes less than Halak does in St. Louis right now.

But yeah.....it's SOOOOO DOABLE.

You should try and sell the shit you drink RD. You'd make a fortune once it caught on.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


Hey moron, you do realize that the Blues will need a goalie LOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG after Halak and Elliotts contracts end? Or are you expecting them to try and play the game with 6 players and no goalie on the ice?
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:54 pm

Meds wrote: Maybe, just maybe, the Blues are hoping to find a starter who is younger, less established, and going to cost less. Or maybe they hope to hit the jackpot with a guy like Anderson, you know, the goalie in Ottawa who is just stealing the show there right now and leading the league in GAA and SV%. He makes less than Halak does in St. Louis right now.

But yeah.....it's SOOOOO DOABLE.

You should try and sell the shit you drink RD. You'd make a fortune once it caught on.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


OH SHIT SORRY MEDS YA PUFTER, I FORGOT..THOSE GUYS GROW ON TREES. It's amazing you haven't used Rask as an example either.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:57 pm

Meds wrote:the Canucks have pretty much made the decision to let go of Luongo's $5.3M cap hit and go with Schneider at a reduced hit of $4M.


So all this flowery, feel good stuff that Gillis has been saying about how valuable Luongo is is just fucking hot air? And why they are trading him is because of his contract vs Schneider? News to me.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:02 pm

Meds wrote:Maybe, just maybe, the Blues are hoping to find a starter who is younger, less established, and going to cost less.


Just curious, do you have any suggestions on where those goalies are that will help fix the Blues 2nd worst Goals Against average in the Western Conference????? Where is this tree that they grow on? And if these mysterious goalies are so good would they not stand to eventually get a MASSIVE FUCKING RAISE???? Bean count it, Meds...you need to set a lot of money aside for goaltending when it comes to budgeting. If not, say hello to shitty netminding.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby dbr » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:12 pm

Jesus RD... might wanna take a breather there.
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