So After The 11 Game Mark

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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Strangelove » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:44 pm

Meds wrote:Fair enough, I'm just not sure getting a veteran center back in a Lou deal is a sure thing.

In fact I don't think a Lou deal is a sure thing before the draft either.


Jose Theodore 3.41 GAA .890 Sv%
Scott Clemmensen 3.77 GAA .853 Sv%

:drink:

*sticks another pin in Reimer voodoo doll*

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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby UWSaint » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:01 pm

Meds wrote:He was routinely caught forgetting about a man behind him who put in an uncontested back door pass or rebound, his passes out of the zone were brutal, the puck has often gone up the middle from behind his own goal-line only to be picked off before it hits the blueline.....scoring chance ensues. I still see plenty of this from him this year.


This season, the blatant turnovers have often been while Edler was trying to pass the puck forward while skating backwards and/or not getting behind it while the puck is bobbling. The passes wind up weak and easily intercepted. This is part of the universe of not settling the puck that I was talking about.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Topper » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:04 pm

Strangelove wrote:*sticks another pin in Reimer voodoo doll*

That's week.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:17 pm

UWSaint wrote:
Meds wrote:He was routinely caught forgetting about a man behind him who put in an uncontested back door pass or rebound, his passes out of the zone were brutal, the puck has often gone up the middle from behind his own goal-line only to be picked off before it hits the blueline.....scoring chance ensues. I still see plenty of this from him this year.


This season, the blatant turnovers have often been while Edler was trying to pass the puck forward while skating backwards and/or not getting behind it while the puck is bobbling. The passes wind up weak and easily intercepted. This is part of the universe of not settling the puck that I was talking about.


Both Bieksa and Edler are terrible for not putting themselves behind the puck and stopping it with their body.....pariticularly at the point. The passes I have a problem with are the ones from behind his (Edler's) own goal-line that get picked off. He's generally NOT skating backwards when he makes those as he has nowhere to really skate backwards to. They don't go up the wall, they go on an angle up the slot towards the other wing or trying to hit someone breaking up the middle. In those cases it's like he tunnels on the guy he wants to hit with the pass and misses the forechecking forward who is just waiting for that pass. I realize that bouncing pucks are tough to pass, it is the brain farts that I harp on with him. Not the errors that are the result of physics at work.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:30 pm

Meds wrote:
Astute summation UW. Though I disagree with some of what I've quoted here.

While you are right, Edler is not Jovanovski, and he has indeed made more mistakes that a top 2 should make etc, I disagree with your analysis that it has simply been due to an inability to settle the puck or failure to hold the puck in. While those are often the reasons for his foul ups on the PP that lead to a shorthanded rush or need for the team to regroup, his screw ups on the Canuck's side of center are a different story. I'll go back as far as the series against the Kings last year. He was routinely caught forgetting about a man behind him who put in an uncontested back door pass or rebound, his passes out of the zone were brutal, the puck has often gone up the middle from behind his own goal-line only to be picked off before it hits the blueline.....scoring chance ensues. I still see plenty of this from him this year. His physical tools and mobility are quite good for someone with his size, he seems to forget that he has these assets at times. When I heard a few games back that he had gone 3 games without throwing a single hit I almost couldn't believe it.

Settling the puck quickly and making the smart play is one of the skills that I associate with players who truly excel in this league.....at any level to be honest. The guy who doesn't have to waste a precious extra half-second getting the puck under control before letting it go has a serious edge. Dangling and fast feet be damned, if you can move the puck quickly with precision you will score more, setup more, and frustrate checking opponents more.

I suppose if Edler didn't have the flaws he has he would have been looking at a contract in the $6M range rather than the $5 he received. I just don't want to see this team go the way they did with Mattias Ohlund again. A good player. Very solid top 3 defender, but one who just wasn't up to the task of being a number 1 guy, he's not a Shea Weber or Chris Pronger. Gillis needs to be ready to pull the trigger on a deal that includes Edler if it has the chance of strengthening the team in the long run. We kept Ohlund until his trade value was next to nil (or so we thought).....I don't think anyone saw the offer from Tampa coming back then. I don't want to see another massive overpayment or commitment to a player who is good, but not good enough to fill the role that coaching, management, and fans, expect him to fill.

I still maintain that Gillis should have gone HARD after Weber's rights last off-season. I think Weber would have signed a more "reasonable" deal outside of Nashville after Suter had left town. It would have been worth giving up Edler, parts, and picks. But what's done is done.



Another misguided, disjointed, anti-Edler rant, by poster Meds.

Edler is an excellent over all defenseman and easily worth the 5 mill we are paying him.

How about instead of a obsessing about a bobbled puck or a missed shot on goal you take a look at the big picture.

23 mpg on a top5 defensive team. 9 points in 11 games for a team that hasn't scored very much. Taking the toughest match upps while playing on his off side.

If you think guys who can do these things are easy to find or replaceable you are kidding yourself.
Last edited by Potatoe1 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:36 pm

Meds wrote:
UWSaint wrote:
Meds wrote:He was routinely caught forgetting about a man behind him who put in an uncontested back door pass or rebound, his passes out of the zone were brutal, the puck has often gone up the middle from behind his own goal-line only to be picked off before it hits the blueline.....scoring chance ensues. I still see plenty of this from him this year.


This season, the blatant turnovers have often been while Edler was trying to pass the puck forward while skating backwards and/or not getting behind it while the puck is bobbling. The passes wind up weak and easily intercepted. This is part of the universe of not settling the puck that I was talking about.


Both Bieksa and Edler are terrible for not putting themselves behind the puck and stopping it with their body.....pariticularly at the point. The passes I have a problem with are the ones from behind his (Edler's) own goal-line that get picked off. He's generally NOT skating backwards when he makes those as he has nowhere to really skate backwards to. They don't go up the wall, they go on an angle up the slot towards the other wing or trying to hit someone breaking up the middle. In those cases it's like he tunnels on the guy he wants to hit with the pass and misses the forechecking forward who is just waiting for that pass. I realize that bouncing pucks are tough to pass, it is the brain farts that I harp on with him. Not the errors that are the result of physics at work.


Harold Snepts special... Those are classic no no's at the best of time... You gotta think when Edler or whoever does that he owes the team a dinner or box of beer or something..
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Strangelove » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:43 pm

Topper wrote:
Strangelove wrote:*sticks another pin in Reimer voodoo doll*

That's week.


No, that's two.

*sticks another pin in Reimer voodoo doll*

Now it's three weeks, just trust me on this.

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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:45 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Another misguided, disjointed, anti-Edler rant, by poster Meds.

Edler is an excellent over all defenseman and easily worth the 5 mill we are paying him.

How about instead of a obsessing about a bobbled punck or a missed shot on goal you take a look at the big picture.

23 mpg on a top5 defensive team. 9 points in 11 games for a team that hasn't scored very much. Taking the toughest match upps while playing on his off side.

If you think guys who can do these things are easy to find or replaceable you are kidding yourself.


I have always maintained that I don't like Edler as a number one guy. I have always maintained that my biggest qualm with him is that some people seem to think he is "that guy", or going to become "that guy".

A good player. Very solid top 3 defender, but one who just wasn't up to the task of being a number 1 guy, he's not a Shea Weber or Chris Pronger. Gillis needs to be ready to pull the trigger on a deal that includes Edler if it has the chance of strengthening the team in the long run.


Where in there did I say, or have I ever said for that matter, that Edler is easily replaceable?

I point out with him the same things I pointed out with Ohlund. It's more playing devil's advocate on here for people that are higher on a guy than they should be than it is because I want Edler gone.

I also don't think I've been unfair in giving him a chance either. If the old site could be dug up you woudl see I was pretty stoked to see what he might turn into when he first started cracking the roster in Vancouver, you would also see that after half a season I was calling the for exact thing we are seeing from him now. A very good top 3 defenseman. A decent number 2 guy. Too many mental errors and inconsistencies to be "that guy".

Would this team be worse without Edler in the lineup? Yes. No question. Would they be worse without him if you added something else? Depends on the something else.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby herb » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:45 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:23 mpg on a top5 defensive team. 9 points in 11 games for a team that hasn't scored very much. Taking the toughest match upps while playing on his off side.


As somebody who had to play on their off side last night, I can attest to how shitty playing on your off side can be in the defensive zone. You can have your head up, but you can't see behind you when you're going to retrieve pucks. It's difficult to see if the point is being covered, even if you're just trying to clear the zone out of desperation. You have to play the puck on your backhand more, which is inherently more difficult than the forehand.

Frankly, I think people should be singing Edler's praises every day. Hallelujah we have this guy. A big bodied, top 10 offensive defenseman who can be physically punishing, has a rocket of a shot and is a playmaker. Every single team in this league who would love to have Alex Edler for $6M, forget about $5M.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Strangelove » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:51 pm

herb wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:23 mpg on a top5 defensive team. 9 points in 11 games for a team that hasn't scored very much. Taking the toughest match upps while playing on his off side.


As somebody who had to play on their off side last night, I can attest to how shitty playing on your off side can be in the defensive zone. You can have your head up, but you can't see behind you when you're going to retrieve pucks. It's difficult to see if the point is being covered, even if you're just trying to clear the zone out of desperation. You have to play the puck on your backhand more, which is inherently more difficult than the forehand.

Frankly, I think people should be singing Edler's praises every day. Hallelujah we have this guy. A big bodied, top 10 offensive defenseman who can be physically punishing, has a rocket of a shot and is a playmaker. Every single team in this league who would love to have Alex Edler for $6M, forget about $5M.


Agreed guys, as I say, this "off side" business is HUGE.

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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:56 pm

herb wrote:Frankly, I think people should be singing Edler's praises every day. Hallelujah we have this guy. A big bodied, top 10 offensive defenseman who can be physically punishing, has a rocket of a shot and is a playmaker. Every single team in this league who would love to have Alex Edler for $6M, forget about $5M.


And my critical view of Edler has been the inconsistency in bringing that. That's the crux of it for me. The inconsistency. $5M for a guy that will go three games without throwing a hit when he is totally capable of flattening opposing forwards at the blueline or pounding them down low when they try to protect the puck in the corner. It's when he plays soft.

And I don't fault a guy for the turnover when trying to clear the puck on his backhand or when he doesn't get enough on it under pressure and it doesn't quite make it up the boards and out. It's the screw ups where he has time, the backing off when he should (note not could) destroy a guy with a hit. When Edler brings his game I have no problem with him whatsoever, he can absolutely rule the rink when he plays to his potential.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby dbr » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:02 pm

Meds just doesn't want to tolerate any more $5m errors.

I guess we should be crossing our fingers to see a bunch of league minimum errors instead. :P
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:26 pm

Meds wrote:I have always maintained that I don't like Edler as a number one guy. I have always maintained that my biggest qualm with him is that some people seem to think he is "that guy", or going to become "that guy".

A good player. Very solid top 3 defender, but one who just wasn't up to the task of being a number 1 guy, he's not a Shea Weber or Chris Pronger. Gillis needs to be ready to pull the trigger on a deal that includes Edler if it has the chance of strengthening the team in the long run.


Edler is a no1 guy, he's just not a superstar no1 like Weber / Pronger / Chara.

Labeling him a no3 is absolutely laughable and really shows that you are entirely clueless when it comes to the rest of the league.

Just to put it perspective meds lets do a little exercise.

Set asside the canucks and look at the rest of the conference (given you might actually have seeen some of these guys play). Give me a list of the defenseman you believe are clearly better then Edler.

Here let me get you started

Weber
Suter
Keith
DD

Ummm

Maybe Seabrook, Yandle, and Boyle,,, maybe.

Whats the average salary of that group?
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:33 pm

Meds wrote:Offensively is a different story, and this is where adjustments need to be made.....and this holds true for any team and coach.


Defensively is where coaching makes a huge impact and where systems and teams buying into them can be the difference between success and failure.

However, I've always been a believer that offense comes from the players and their talents. It can't be coached nearly as well. Players need to be creative and have the ability to read the defense and make adjustments. The Canucks have players that can do this and when they are healthy our PP can be one of the best in the league, and we have been one of the highest scoring teams in the NHL.

When we have issues scoring it coincides with when we have significant injuries to either our first or second line players. I mentioned this somewhere else but out PP was the best in the league last year until January when it took a nosedive. That time frame is exactly when Kesler and Booth were injured. Booth was likely more of an impact to our even strength play and depth but Kesler was and is a key to the success of our PP.

When he's healthy he's a presence in front of the net and he's now the only right handed one-time threat we have.

Coaching can give players an outline to follow on offense but we need our top players healthy so that they can be more creative and more of a threat to score.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:36 pm

Potatoe1 wrote:Edler is a no1 guy, he's just not a superstar no1 like Weber / Pronger / Chara.

Labeling him a no3 is absolutely laughable and really shows that you are entirely clueless when it comes to the rest of the league.

Just to put it perspective meds lets do a little exercise.

Set asside the canucks and look at the rest of the conference (given you might actually have seeen some of these guys play). Give me a list of the defenseman you believe are clearly better then Edler.

Here let me get you started

Weber
Suter
Keith
DD

Ummm

Maybe Seabrook, Yandle, and Boyle,,, maybe.

Whats the average salary of that group?


Furthermore while all those guys might be better than Edler I would rather have Edler than Boyle mainly due to age, Seabrook and maybe Suter.......maybe.

Only d men I would for sure rather have than Edler are Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Ekman Larsson, Keith and maybe McDonaugh and Hedman...... again maybe. Edler is a top 15 d man in the NHL and he is a bargain at 5 million.

He should change his name to Meth .

Obviously Chara is a far superior player but he is also in his mid 30's while Edle is in his mid 20's.
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