So After The 11 Game Mark

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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Hockey Widow » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:31 pm

rats19 wrote:The next 6-7 are a tougher set. We will need to continue getting better and also the goalies to keep playing well . I am on my pgone and its hard to jump around but..and correct me..
Minny
Dal
Chi
Stl
La
Ana

I think, maybe the sharks are In there somewhere.



Next 11:

Minny
Dallas
Blues
Chicago
Dallas
Nashville
Detroit
Phoenix
LA
Calgary
SJS

Only 2 Divisional games in the next 11. So it should be a real test as to who we really are. Play less than .500 over these next 11 games and we will be screaming for some trades. Play at a plus .600 clip and we will be just fine.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Tciso » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:53 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Only 2 Divisional games in the next 11. So it should be a real test as to who we really are. Play less than .500 over these next 11 games and we will be screaming for some trades. Play at a plus .600 clip and we will be just fine.


..and still screaming for a trade :). HW, did you forget we are still Canucks fans. lol.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Meds » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:54 am

Ya know, as much as I've ragged on some of our defense, and the team in general, I just had a look at the standings and realized that we are second only to the Bruins in goals against this year so far. Tied with New Jersey at 24 while Beantown has given up 21.

If not for our collapses against the Ducks and Sharks this team would probably have the best GA in the league right now.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:39 am

Hockey Widow wrote:
rats19 wrote:The next 6-7 are a tougher set. We will need to continue getting better and also the goalies to keep playing well . I am on my pgone and its hard to jump around but..and correct me..
Minny
Dal
Chi
Stl
La
Ana

I think, maybe the sharks are In there somewhere.



Next 11:

Minny
Dallas
Blues
Chicago
Dallas
Nashville
Detroit
Phoenix
LA
Calgary
SJS

Only 2 Divisional games in the next 11. So it should be a real test as to who we really are. Play less than .500 over these next 11 games and we will be screaming for some trades. Play at a plus .600 clip and we will be just fine.


Definitely a few tough games in there - though games against Minny, Dallas (2), Detroit, Phoenix, Calgary should all be winnable. A few are coin tosses (Chi, LA, SJ) while the Blues and Preds are very difficult to forecast right now, given they have alternated between good and crap.

I figure the Nucks will go well over .500 in these games, especially since Kes is almost ready. My guess is 6-4-1, or 7-4, something like that.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Reefer2 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:52 am

Hate to be the Debbie Downer but so what, who didn't expect this team to make the playoffs or even take the division again. I will admit I am surprised at how well they are doing without Kesler/Booth and I give them full props for that, BUT it is the playoffs I will watch and see how well they do. Until then this is nothing but preseason games.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:14 am

Reefer2 wrote:Hate to be the Debbie Downer but so what, who didn't expect this team to make the playoffs or even take the division again. I will admit I am surprised at how well they are doing without Kesler/Booth and I give them full props for that, BUT it is the playoffs I will watch and see how well they do. Until then this is nothing but preseason games.


Well unless the play poorly during the regular season, if they do that you are here "wringing your hands" because they are going to go out early again. (smile)
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby UWSaint » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:29 am

Well, if this is about how the team has played, a few observations.

The Canucks have been exceptional in the neutral zone defensively. Probably the best in the league. Other teams must adjust to the Canucks, not the other way around. While AV gets little credit on these boards, coaching is more than line changes, time outs, post-game interviews, and special teams. The first inquiry as to a coach's effectiveness is whether the team plays together, as a unit. This team does.

Being solid in the neutral zone does not require being ultra safe in the offensive zone. The Canucks defensemen are given pretty wide latitude in pinching and cycling (as has been the team's MO since the Crawfoord days). But unlike the Crawford days, they are generally covered by forwards who understand the rotational nature of the offense. These responsibilities are shared throughout the lineup. While AV gets little credit on these boards, coaching is more than line changes, time outs, post-game interviews, and special teams. The first inquiry as to a coach's effectiveness is whether the team plays together, as a unit. In managing offensive chances with defensive responsibility, this team does.

The most underrated forward-type in the league is the forward that doesn't hit, but keeps his legs moving, eliminates the opposition's time and space, and makes the opposition work for chances. Hansen, Higgins, Raymond, and Burrows all do this. Schroeder may get there, too, but today he errs (smartly) on the side of conservative positioning. These guys aren't stars and aren't flawless by any means, but they carry this underappreciated -- and very effective towards the ends of winning games -- asset.

The things that haven't been working either should work or will be helped considerably by Kesler. The PP and shorthanded play fall into the latter category. These have been bad, but given that Kesler is the best SH forward on the team and one of the best forwards on the PP, it will be better merely with personnel. Still, this is not the "movement" PP that we saw in 2010-2011 and the first half of last year and coaching plays a role.

The Sedins have been just okay, though their raw speed and strength looks better than ever. They'll be fine. I think. Expect a point a game from each.

The defensive corps is way better with (1) perfect health and (2) an emerging Chris Tanev. The Canucks won't be healthy all year, and going from Ballard to Alberts/Barker will liklely be a serious downgrade. Tanev, though, is the real deal. He is stronger on the puck and physically able to do what his calm brain tells him. I have been most impressed with his touch on outlet passes and moves to secure possession in the defensive zone on dump ins (e.g., tips off the boards to himself to avoid a check and buy time). Tanev "throws a catchable ball" -- he doesn't send guys live grenades for passes and rarely put a receiving player in a vulnerable position. These little things can take years to develop if they ever develop at all, and Tanev is well beyond where he was last year.

The Canucks bottom 4 on D, whoever they are, is better than the top 4 on most teams.

Alexander Edler is not Ed Jovanovski. While he has made more mistakes than a first pairing guy should, his mistakes are not chicken-with-head-cut-off-variety (the kind of panic-leads-to-poor-positioning that Ballard and sometimes Bieksa have in the past displayed (but less so this year)) and are not the result of recklessness on offense (his offense is exceptional, but not the reult of high-risk plays). They are usually due to an inability to settle the puck, leading to a weak pass or the failure to hold the puck in. Bottom line, I don't know that these flaws will ever leave Edler, but they are identifiable and workable.

Outside of a terrible opening night, goaltending for the Canucks has been great. We will have less stellar games on the horizon -- it is the nature of these things -- so the offense will have to pick things up if the Canucks are going to keep winning.

Summary: This team is exceptional defensively -- forwards, defenders, and goaltenders. Some of this is the result of individual talent; some the result of a team concept. The offense has room to grow, particularly on the power play. To have this record with unremarkable special teams and two of the Top 6 forwards out is pretty remarkable.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Reefer2 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:50 am

Potatoe1 wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:Hate to be the Debbie Downer but so what, who didn't expect this team to make the playoffs or even take the division again. I will admit I am surprised at how well they are doing without Kesler/Booth and I give them full props for that, BUT it is the playoffs I will watch and see how well they do. Until then this is nothing but preseason games.


Well unless the play poorly during the regular season, if they do that you are here "wringing your hands" because they are going to go out early again. (smile)


Yawn - how typical of your comments, time to get some new stuff Mr. Pot.

I am not "wringing my hands", hell I am not anything. Get up for the games forsure but now it is more of a whatever will happen will happen. I have other things like going back to school and work taking up more and more of my time than hockey.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby rats19 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:55 am

Reefer2 wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:Hate to be the Debbie Downer but so what, who didn't expect this team to make the playoffs or even take the division again. I will admit I am surprised at how well they are doing without Kesler/Booth and I give them full props for that, BUT it is the playoffs I will watch and see how well they do. Until then this is nothing but preseason games.


Well unless the play poorly during the regular season, if they do that you are here "wringing your hands" because they are going to go out early again. (smile)


Yawn - how typical of your comments, time to get some new stuff Mr. Pot.

I am not "wringing my hands", hell I am not anything. Get up for the games forsure but now it is more of a whatever will happen will happen. I have other things like going back to school and work taking up more and more of my time than hockey.

Hey reef, not to stick my nose in..but, if in the first comment you would have included some of the second comment you might not of gotten pots comment...comments?

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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Potatoe1 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:56 am

Reefer2 wrote:
Potatoe1 wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:Hate to be the Debbie Downer but so what, who didn't expect this team to make the playoffs or even take the division again. I will admit I am surprised at how well they are doing without Kesler/Booth and I give them full props for that, BUT it is the playoffs I will watch and see how well they do. Until then this is nothing but preseason games.


Well unless the play poorly during the regular season, if they do that you are here "wringing your hands" because they are going to go out early again. (smile)


Yawn - how typical of your comments, time to get some new stuff Mr. Pot.

I am not "wringing my hands", hell I am not anything. Get up for the games forsure but now it is more of a whatever will happen will happen. I have other things like going back to school and work taking up more and more of my time than hockey.


Ha it's just kind of funny..

If they play well -- Whatever I only care about the playoffs...

If the play poorly -- OMG this team sucks !!
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Reefer2 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:57 am

rat - understood.

All I was trying to say was wait for the playoffs and see what happens but I was surprised they had done this well without 2 players.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby rats19 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:04 am

Reefer2 wrote:rat - understood.

All I was trying to say was wait for the playoffs and see what happens but I was surprised they had done this well without 2 players.

reef: understood...its just that it came off differently..indifferently if you will... :wink:
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Aaronp18 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:52 am

UWSaint wrote:Summary: This team is exceptional defensively -- forwards, defenders, and goaltenders. Some of this is the result of individual talent; some the result of a team concept. The offense has room to grow, particularly on the power play. To have this record with unremarkable special teams and two of the Top 6 forwards out is pretty remarkable.


Nicely said as usual UW.

Often enough folks complain that AV isn't the greatest coach for a variety of reasons. Usually along the lines of he doesn't call a timeout, he doesn't stick with line pairings long enough for them to gel, or he doesn't change lines quickly enough if they aren't playing well, he doesn't pull the goalie early enough, etc, etc.

None of these issues people seem to have with AV determines his ability to be a quality coach. The fact that this team plays so well together and buys in to the team concept is why they are so successful year after year and shows the ability of the coaching staff.
I can't remember a Canucks team that plays so well together that AV hasn't coached. This is why it can take new players some time to get accustomed to playing on the Canucks.

Some have also complained about the coaching staff's inability to make adjustments to the opposition. I've always hated this argument because when the Canucks are successful they are the ones dictating the play and forcing the opponent to adjust, as you mentioned. As soon as the Canucks get off their game plan (whether it be due to injuries, fatigue or simply uninspired play) is when they get into real trouble.

I think with Kesler's return the PP will look much better, the PK will without question be much improved. With Salo gone and Kelser injured there is zero threat on the left side of the PP for a one-timer. Right now even on the right side we don't have any left handed forwards that are a true one-timer threat, we really only have Edler and (when he's allowed on the PP) Garrison. But teams have been taking them away quite well.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:38 am

UWSaint wrote:Well, if this is about how the team has played, a few observations.

Excellent analysis.

This Vancouver team looks like the poised, veteran team that they are, even with 3 21-23 year olds. If this team is going to get another crack at that elusive win #16, this is exactly how they will do it.

They seem less yappy, more cohesive as a team and are apparently doing the little things well like breaking out of the zone smoothly, simple chip outs off the glass, low percentage dumps into the corners when holding a lead, etc...

The next 11 games will show more but at this point we can all hopefully see a decidedly better Canucks team than the one that went out in 5 to the Kings.
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Re: So After The 11 Game Mark

Postby Topper » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:01 pm

UW, your take on the defensive play of the role players is very good and is why they are especially frustrating to play against. Being out muscled is one thing, but being out thought is far more frustrating. Just ask Reef. I still miss the physical play of the younger Burrows and Kesler.

Hansen, who'd a thunk.

Add to your comments on AV, he quietly makes tweaks. He trusts and encourages his veteran players to figure things out on their own. He knows they are not happy when things turn sour and are as critical of their own play as he is. He knows there is no point harping on the issue and many fans take that as a lackadaisical attitude on his part.

I have a feeling Raymond is auditioning for a contract somewhere else. Also that it will be a very quiet off season and as camps wrap up and rosters need to be set, all hell will break loose.
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