So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:34 am

Cam Coles' column:
Not sure if everyone has read it or not...

Like the concept of a Coach of the Year one season who gets fired midway through the next because (evidently) he suffered a sudden and incurable attack of stupidity, the notion that Mike Gillis no longer knows how to manage a National Hockey League team does not strike me as terribly sensible.

Wherever you think he found the Vancouver Canucks team that won the last two Presidents' Trophies in a row, and got to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final in 2011 - whether you are from the ever-popular "inheritance" school (Brian Burke and Dave Nonis handed him the nucleus) or whether you think he has done pretty well, with assistant Laurence Gilman's help, at re-signing and extending that core and picking up a piece here and there to enhance it while it matured - you will grudgingly admit that it's not such a bad thing to have won more regular season games than any team except San Jose during his four-plus seasons in Vancouver.

Has their draft record during Gillis' time here been pretty awful? Yes, with the exception of his initial first-rounder, Cody Hodgson, whose trade last spring yielded Zack Kassian, who scored a goal and fought Edmonton's Ben Eager on Sunday, offering a rare glimpse of the potential the Canucks had hoped to be seeing more regularly by now.

Would Gillis have been any further ahead if he had dropped a grenade into the scouting department upon his arrival here in 2008, and hired a whole new staff? Doubtful. Drafting late is a crapshoot.

Has the Ryan Kesler injury reverberated throughout the lineup so thoroughly that it has exposed all the places the Canucks are weak on the forward lines?

Indubitably.

Has Gillis' inability to trade Roberto Luongo for a second-line centre exacerbated the shortcomings of his forwards, or is it a good thing he didn't trade Luongo, given how much the Canucks might depend on goaltending this season, or would they not be as reliant on goaltending if they could score more, or ... which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Did Gillis inherit a pretty darned good nucleus from Burke and then Nonis? Yes, he did.

"But inheriting something and making it better is also OK," Gillis said Monday in an hour-long interview that was set up before the Canucks' two opening-weekend losses.

He knows that every one of the questions above is being asked, exhaustively, by writers and broadcasters and fans as this Canucks team lurches through early days this 48-game season.

But Gillis, maddeningly to some, has his plan for the team and the organization, and makes it clear he's not going to be stampeded into deviating from it by pressure from the outside.

For instance: how likely is it both Cory Schneider and Roberto Luongo will remain happy campers sharing a job that was supposed to be Schneider's by now, with Luongo starting somewhere else?

"Well, they're both professionals," Gillis said.

"You know, there is an element of professionalism that goes along with your entitlement to the kind of money you get paid. And having both of them may give us the best opportunity to win - I don't know."

Why he hasn't already dealt Luongo is simple.

"Roberto has a no-trade, so in discussions prior to the lockout, he had a say in where he was prepared to go. Once the lockout starts, you're not permitted to even talk about player transactions, subject to huge fines and loss of draft picks. Then the lockout ends and suddenly, you're trying to make a decision in four or five days about a premier player in this league, and it's tough to make a trade of this magnitude in eight months, let alone four days. So we have him here, and we're happy having him here.

"There wasn't really time to do anything but this. And we're going to let it play out. Lots of stuff is going to happen here in the first month."

The Kesler injuries - and to a lesser extent, one to the erratic David Booth - have meant that the first month may be more painful than it might have been otherwise.

"The reason professional sports are so great is that you're always dealing with human frailty," Gillis said.

Kesler and Booth are a few weeks away, at minimum, from returning. In the meantime, the Canucks are apt to look like a shadow of the team that was one win away from the Cup just one full season ago.

"I think this team is as good," Gillis said. "I think our defence is as good, I think Jason Garrison has a chance to be a real good player with Alex Edler - they eat minutes, they're big guys.

"But you have to avoid injuries, and you have to have great goaltending. That's what L.A. got last year. They wouldn't have even been close to being in the playoffs if Jonathan Quick was not the best player in the National Hockey League last year. And they get in the playoffs, avoid injuries, play the same six defenceman all the way through, some guys rise to the occasion, they get good matchups and great goaltending ..."

And win the Stanley Cup.

"The way I see it, if you're constantly knocking on the door, sooner or later the puck doesn't hit the post but goes in. Your guy doesn't get hurt but someone on the opposition does."

Gillis doesn't spend a lot of time ruing draft-day decisions. He knows the Canucks have no can't miss, whiz-bangs coming up - "You're going to get good players if you lose in this business, that's the way it's set up," he said. "We've been a good team" - but thinks they have a handful of good young prospects percolating in college, and in the minors, paying dues. Just not ready yet.

"You trade away picks when you're trying to win a Stanley Cup, not just make the playoffs. You give up young assets to try to get to the next level. Would we do it again? Certain things for sure. Other things, in hindsight, probably not.

"But it's kept us near the top of the league."

The Luongo trade, or nontrade, which has taken on a life of its own with the way Schneider started the season (five goals on 14 shots before being pulled Saturday), could happen soon, or in a month, or not at all.

"We have a potential deal in place with one team that has to do something with another player that they have - and it's not who anybody thinks it is - and so we have to wait. (But) we've been offered packages that don't fit what our plan is, what we need," said Gillis.

Like, how?

"Excess salary coming back with a (throw-in) player who can't play in our lineup. They say, 'OK, we'll do this, but you've got to take this.' Well, we're not taking it. We've had lots of proposals like that with good pieces that can help us, but the other part doesn't help us, and oftentimes they have term attached to them, so we'd just be turning around and buying out a guy.

"I'd rather keep the guy we know, who's a good person."

That Luongo has been a prince through this whole trade/no trade fiasco goes without saying, but Gillis said it anyway. "We have a really good player here who brings a tremendous amount to the team, his professionalism, his willingness to work - he's the kind of player that changes the culture on a team and shows players what it means to be an elite-level player," he said. If that sounds like a sales pitch, it probably is. It's also, quite possibly, true.

ccole@vancouversun.com
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Boston Canucker » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:40 am

Reefer2 wrote:
dbr wrote:Right, of course.

Anyway I reiterate my .. befuddledness. I can't think of any other occasion on which Mike Gillis has disclosed anything even close to specific details about trade negotiations in public.

(Of course the Luongo situation is obviously unprecedented, but still.)


So to me Mike is either

a) a sadistic bastard who is playing the media/fans like TO did last week
b) really does have a deal and is sending a message to other teams they have a few days to get the final offer in or he is gone


My sense is it is a b) with a caveat. I don't think he's got a deal that is that close - it seems counterintuitive as the other gm would likely say "what the fuck? keep your yap shut" - and it could burn the deal. But I would not be surprised if he has spitballed scenarios with another GM in which a GM has said "well, if I do this other thing, then yeah I could do the deal you want," and Gillis is seeking to publicly leverage that to pressure other teams not feeling like he has endangering a deal that is really on the verge of being done.

Fact is, the Booth and Kassian deals came out of the blue. Gillis' M.O. is to keep his trap shut till it's done. The major difference here, which may be changing his approach, is that everyone knows the trade he is seeking to make...
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Jovocop » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:55 am

Boston Canucker wrote:
Reefer2 wrote:
dbr wrote:Right, of course.

Anyway I reiterate my .. befuddledness. I can't think of any other occasion on which Mike Gillis has disclosed anything even close to specific details about trade negotiations in public.

(Of course the Luongo situation is obviously unprecedented, but still.)


So to me Mike is either

a) a sadistic bastard who is playing the media/fans like TO did last week
b) really does have a deal and is sending a message to other teams they have a few days to get the final offer in or he is gone


My sense is it is a b) with a caveat. I don't think he's got a deal that is that close - it seems counterintuitive as the other gm would likely say "what the fuck? keep your yap shut" - and it could burn the deal. But I would not be surprised if he has spitballed scenarios with another GM in which a GM has said "well, if I do this other thing, then yeah I could do the deal you want," and Gillis is seeking to publicly leverage that to pressure other teams not feeling like he has endangering a deal that is really on the verge of being done.

Fact is, the Booth and Kassian deals came out of the blue. Gillis' M.O. is to keep his trap shut till it's done. The major difference here, which may be changing his approach, is that everyone knows the trade he is seeking to make...


Totally agreed. Unlike previous trades, everyone knows that Luongo wants out.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:20 pm

LOL the mongoloids have a two page thread about Gillis popping off to Cam Cole. They seem pretty angry about it.

Just posturing from Old Luggage Eyes. Me wonders if the Islanders could be the mystery team if there is any truth to this.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:23 pm

Totally agreed. Unlike previous trades, everyone knows that Luongo wants out.[/quote]

Gillis uses the media to his advantage - he had everybody well aware of his offer to Sundin a few years back and that worked out. He's a smart man who knows how to leverage a situation. That's exactly what he is doing here.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby jackalman » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:32 pm

I'm working up north in alberta. My buddy just sent me a text that he seen on tv a rumor of a possible 5 player trade between van and philly. Anyone else hear anything about this. He gave no details and said that it's not sure thing but that is what was said on whatever he was watching.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Nuckertuzzi » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:30 pm

I'm sure Ed Snider "loves" the lockout even more now. Lower salary cap next year + compliance buyout = $50 million thrown in the garbage.

Can you imagine that kind of buyout??...doubt it'll ever happen but how else can the Flyers get Luongo if they do indeed want him? Unbelievable the ramifications of this lockout on certain wealthy teams (including ours?). We won't fully see it until the summer..can hardly wait. Nice job, owners.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby ESQ » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:31 pm

jackalman wrote:I'm working up north in alberta. My buddy just sent me a text that he seen on tv a rumor of a possible 5 player trade between van and philly. Anyone else hear anything about this. He gave no details and said that it's not sure thing but that is what was said on whatever he was watching.


Entering the realm of speculation, there are four "other player situations" that I can think of:

1. PK Subban and his RFA status - Luongo would probably love to play for the Habs, but the only way this works is with a third team involved to offer a huge trade for Price. Price has a hefty $6.5 million contract, but could command a lot from a team that wants a younger up-and-coming goalie as opposed to an established vet like Luongo.

2. Jamie Benn and his RFA status - again would be odd without a third team involved, as Lehtonen's $5.9 mil contract kicks in next year.

3. Philadelphia and buyout - I don't know the cap in-and-outs, but a problem for Philly adding salary in goal is that its not "replacement player" for Pronger, meaning they can't exceed the cap by Pronger's cap amount. I thought maybe they were waiting for Pronger to announce retirement to save themselves the cap hit, but I don't think anything changed in relation to age 35+ contracts so that can't be it. Also, if I'm not mistaken they can't buy out a player on IR...maybe they think Pronger can get medically cleared for a day and buy him out? Or, Philly is considering buying out Bryzgalov, though I doubt it.

4. NYI and Visnovsky - I thought maybe they'd have trouble getting to the floor if Visnovsky remains suspended, but they are $6 mil over the floor right now...maybe they will have payroll issues if they end up having to pay Visnovsky?
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby BurningBeard » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:40 pm

5. Pittsburgh and Fleury? Seems highly unlikely to me, but maybe they want an upgrade in goal after the horrific performance during last years playoffs? Not sure if Luongo is the goalie I'd replace my starter with in an effort to reduce playoff meltdowns. ;)
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Nuckertuzzi » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:49 pm

Man timing always sucks with the Canucks. Why couldn't the Flyers wait one more year before they finally decide to make a big move in goal?...or why couldn't we find out a year earlier that we're going to trade Luongo in favor of Scneids? Look at the parts the Flyers had and were obviously willing to move: Richards, Carter, Van Reimsdyk... They've still got a lot of good parts but now we've got that damn Bryzgalov contract in the way. That's the ideal trading partner....god damn timing!
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Nuckertuzzi » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:54 pm

BurningBeard wrote:5. Pittsburgh and Fleury? Seems highly unlikely to me, but maybe they want an upgrade in goal after the horrific performance during last years playoffs?


I thought the same thing.


BurningBeard wrote:Not sure if Luongo is the goalie I'd replace my starter with in an effort to reduce playoff meltdowns. ;)


I thought the same thing.

...rather stick with the guy I actually won a Cup with.


Shit you can almost say the same with Bryzgalov, minus the Cup part of course. But no definitely I give the edge to Lu there..I'd take his meltdowns over Bryz's..at least Lu's good for a few games between the meltdowns.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:59 pm

Didn't Aquafish fire Dave Fish Taco Nonis for not selling the farm for Ollie Jokinen? How does Gillfish get away so long ruling the roost at Orca Bay with zero activity on the trade front. Hands down the most boring GM this city has since Phil Maloney. Was Phil Maloney a GM?
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:07 pm

Ya just know it's not a good thing if Mr. Calm, Cool and Collective Gillis is showing his cards to the media. Just not like him. That tells me that he is desperate and frustrated. Unfortunately, trade posturing through the media doesn't work. Burke has been doing this schtick for years and look where it's gotten him. Something tells me that Gillis might be a little stressed and out of sorts.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Strangelove » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:31 pm

RoyalDude wrote:That tells me that he is desperate and frustrated.


Dude if YOU weren't so desperate and frustrated, you wouldn't keep trying to colour Gillis as desperate and frustrated.

Gillis is your polar opposite when it comes to desperation and frustration.

wait... OMG... he's banging your wife RIGHT NOW isn't he? :mex:
Last edited by Strangelove on Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby coco_canuck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:31 pm

The only team that makes sense as the mystery team, IMO, is Chicago.

Philly has cap space with Pronger being injured and the only option is to buy out Bryz in the summer because I highly doubt anyone takes that contract. As the old rumor said, if Philly gets Luo they'll go with both goalies this year and sort it out next. Other than Bryz I don't see a contract Philly would be looking to move considering the state of their defense. While their forward core is deep, if they're giving up a player for Luongo, then sending Briere out to make space doesn't make sense.

I look at Washington's roster, and I don't see a player they're eager to move other than maybe Joel Ward, but they liked him last year and need the botom 6 depth.

This brings me to Chicago, a team that only has $4M of cap space for next season with 18 players under contract. The Hawks have a deep defense and Nicklas Hjalmarson has been rumored to be on the block for a while now. If they clear his salary, then they can add Luongo and probably won't have trouble moving Crawford and his $2.6M cap hit for next year in the summer.

If it is Chicago, I doubt Bolland is coming the other way because he'd be the biggest piece in the deal and he has a $3.3M cap hit for this year and next, and the team would have to pay more to extend him. I get the sense MG wants cap relief for next year and a very good young player/prospect. I would expect the Canucks to be getting something like Saad and Krueger or Stalbarg with some sort of pick depending on the package.
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