So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Jovocop » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:04 pm

herb wrote:I gave Nonis credit for landing Luongo. Keenan could have unloaded him elsewhere, and for some reason he chose to trade with Vancouver.


HW got it right. Keenan loves "size, toughness and soft hands". He traded for Bertuzzi twice. He even wanted him when he was a coach with the Flames.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:06 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
Diehard1 wrote:I just don't see No-nuts Nonis having the balls to pull off a deal for Luongo, again unless it's an absolute no brainer like the deal he got from Florida (where ownership told the GM they had to move Luongo now, so get the best deal he could). Nonis just won't do anything to rock the boat and it's why he's a very average GM. At least with Gillis, love him or hate him, you know he's got the balls to pull off a shocker trade like the Hodgson one last year.



Actually I don't think that is what happened. Mike Keenan went rogue on that one. He had taken Luongo to arbitration the year before and had been refusing to give Luongo his big time contract. Keenan didn't think he had shown enough to be paid like a top 10 goalie in the league. Luongo had one more year before UFA. Ownership wanted Luongo signed. Luongo thought he had a deal, had begun construction of his home. Keenan decided that he wanted to impress upon everyone that he ran the organization and he also had a boner for Bert.

It was the opposite of what you sate. Keenan traded Luongo and even rushed making the announcement. Nonis wanted to wait until the draft floor to announce but Keenan wanted it rushed through and announced. He eventually lost his job because of stuff like that.

Martin was the coach at the time and his days in Ottawa were hampered by lack of consistent goaltending. He was in dream land having Luongo on his team and the thought of what it would be like to have a world class net minder back stop the club. He talked about this a few years later. He was in the camp to get Luongo signed long term when he heard about the trade.

So the coach wanted him, ownership wanted him, the fans wanted him, it was the GM that felt it was an unproven player playing hard ball and he needed to be shown how the NHL works. Listen to Keenan when he talks about it. He talks about how Luongo's head was a little bigger than his accomplishments.

At the time we gave up a washed up power forward, at the time a d'man who was thought to be top 4 and a back up goalie who had decent numbers for the Canucks.


I remember Keenan talking about this at the trading deadline last year - his story was that he actually had a verbal deal in place with Lu, went to ownership who said no, we want to trade him. Keenan said his hands were tied and he had to get rid of Lu as a result. I'm not sure it's exactly true as he's probably trying to save a little bit of face now, but Keenan specifically said he wanted to keep Lu and ownership nixed it.

The nice thing about Bert at the time is that he was young enough to get back to where he was earlier in his career. It never happened but he had a big name and therefore more value than he should have. Allen and Auld had ok value too.

In this case Lu's value is hampered by his contract. It's not a death blow by any means and he has lots of years left of solid hockey, but he would have a lot more value with a 4 or 5 year deal in place. Yes he would then be paid more annually but the extreme nature of his deal hurts his value somewhat. Will be interesting to see what the return is, I'm still predicting a trade happens in the near future, likely in the next 2 to 3 weeks.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Diehard1 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:16 pm

herb wrote:I gave Nonis credit for landing Luongo. Keenan could have unloaded him elsewhere, and for some reason he chose to trade with Vancouver.

One thing Nonis and Burke have in common is that they're very good at justifying why they didn't do something. How many times did we endure these two saying "I will not overpay for a goaltender/second line forward...blah blah blah"?

If Gillis' goal is to acquire some help for the here and now, then obviously Luongo needs to be traded asap.

If Gillis' goal is to acquire futures in the form of draft picks and/or prospects, then he is probably better served by waiting out the season and seeing if there are more suitors in the off season. It's not like a guy like Bjugstad, for example, would be much help this season, so what's the rush? I think it's highly unlikely that Florida and Toronto will remove themselves from the Luongo sweepstakes if this thing drags on into the off season, so Gillis does have some manoeuvrability.

The thing that gets me, is that if I'm Dave Nonis I am itching to get into the playoffs this season for the sake of some job security. If there was ever a time he could be afforded some leeway and 'benefit of the doubt' in terms of potentially overpaying, you would think it would be in the department of solidifying the goaltending position, right?


That's actually a good point and something I hadn't thought of - depends on what Gillis wants as a return. For me, it's all about the present with this team. Take a page from Alex Anthopoulos' book and make a big trade to give your team the best shot at it now and in the next couple of years.

If Gillis isn't of the same mindset, however, then perhaps waiting for futures (picks and prospects) makes sense. It's not what I would do but I'm not sure what he is thinking.

Either way you've got a very good asset tying up dollars and able to bring something in return. I look to trade him quickly if I'm Gillis but he may have a different mindset.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Jovocop » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:22 pm

herb wrote:
One thing Nonis and Burke have in common is that they're very good at justifying why they didn't do something. How many times did we endure these two saying "I will not overpay for a goaltender/second line forward...blah blah blah"?

If Gillis' goal is to acquire some help for the here and now, then obviously Luongo needs to be traded asap.

If Gillis' goal is to acquire futures in the form of draft picks and/or prospects, then he is probably better served by waiting out the season and seeing if there are more suitors in the off season. It's not like a guy like Bjugstad, for example, would be much help this season, so what's the rush? I think it's highly unlikely that Florida and Toronto will remove themselves from the Luongo sweepstakes if this thing drags on into the off season, so Gillis does have some manoeuvrability.

The thing that gets me, is that if I'm Dave Nonis I am itching to get into the playoffs this season for the sake of some job security. If there was ever a time he could be afforded some leeway and 'benefit of the doubt' in terms of potentially overpaying, you would think it would be in the department of solidifying the goaltending position, right?


It is a loop.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Ropesauce » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:37 pm

Can we add "we're building from the net out" to that loop?
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:04 pm

I wonder how long it'll take for Randy "cheeseburger eatin' mofo" Nonis to lose the shirt and give up Gardiner... (put me in the camp where Bozak & Gardiner are a good enough return)
It's his only chance of actually making enough of a difference to keep his job past April in my opinion.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Hockey Widow » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:29 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote:I wonder how long it'll take for Randy "cheeseburger eatin' mofo" Nonis to lose the shirt and give up Gardiner... (put me in the camp where Bozak & Gardiner are a good enough return)
It's his only chance of actually making enough of a difference to keep his job past April in my opinion.



Gardiner is still not cleared to play with his post concussion symptoms and all. So he would be a player for the future not one that would help the Canucks in the immediate future. Not that I would say no to GArdiner but if the goal is the get immediate help he is not it right now.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Uncle dans leg » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:38 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:I wonder how long it'll take for Randy "cheeseburger eatin' mofo" Nonis to lose the shirt and give up Gardiner... (put me in the camp where Bozak & Gardiner are a good enough return)
It's his only chance of actually making enough of a difference to keep his job past April in my opinion.



Gardiner is still not cleared to play with his post concussion symptoms and all. So he would be a player for the future not one that would help the Canucks in the immediate future. Not that I would say no to GArdiner but if the goal is the get immediate help he is not it right now.

Ya thats where Bozak would come in handy...
Also just heard on SNet that Gardiners' pretty close, may play Saturday. Rumour was that we want Bozak and Gardiner but Burke/cheeseburger didn't want to cough up Gardiner.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:04 am

A 2013 1st round pick is the best return. Makes us a player in the 2013 draft with 2 first round picks, especially if we play like shite in which i think we will.

The season will be over before you know it, no big deal if we stink the joint out. I say we pull a Kevin Lowe/Steve Tambellini and tank the season.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:06 am

Uncle dans leg wrote:Ya thats where Bozak would come in handy...
Also just heard on SNet that Gardiners' pretty close, may play Saturday. Rumour was that we want Bozak and Gardiner but Burke/cheeseburger didn't want to cough up Gardiner.


You do realize that Bozak is a rental player. He's a UFA at the end of the season. You don't give up an asset like Luongo if a main piece coming back is pretty much a rental player. Fucking sign Daymond Langkow for fuck sakes. Bozak is like a poor mans Brenden Morrison, a real awesome player. NOT
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Uncle dans leg » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:45 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Uncle dans leg wrote:Ya thats where Bozak would come in handy...
Also just heard on SNet that Gardiners' pretty close, may play Saturday. Rumour was that we want Bozak and Gardiner but Burke/cheeseburger didn't want to cough up Gardiner.


You do realize that Bozak is a rental player. He's a UFA at the end of the season. You don't give up an asset like Luongo if a main piece coming back is pretty much a rental player. Fucking sign Daymond Langkow for fuck sakes. Bozak is like a poor mans Brenden Morrison, a real awesome player. NOT

Gardiner ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Bozak dude. Plus. Now and Later
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Strangelove » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:16 pm

Would you guys settle for this: Lu Wongo for Kadri + Kulemin + 2nd?

Former 7th overall Kadri seems to be rounding into form, he's a solid prospect on the cusp I'd say.

True, he's a make-or-break top-6-or-bust player, but I'd roll the dice on him.

Kulemin would fit right in here imo.

A big smart physical good-skating 2-way forward with upside... on a decent cap-hit.

We could build a temporary (until Booth, Kess come back) 2nd line around these two.

Obviously it would be a 2nd line that only see about as much icetime as a 3rd line of Higgins, Lappy, Hansen.

But a temporary 2nd line of sorts.

We could throw Kassian on that line and call it the KKK line. :mex:

Thoughts?
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby SKYO » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:25 pm

Strangelove wrote:Would you guys settle for this: Lu Wongo for Kadri + Kulemin + 2nd?


I have a feeling MG would prefer Frattin, relatively unknown outside the T.O. just got into the game after playing college in the States, plays big/strong/industrious, has a good shot + wheels and will likely have a breakout season soon if put in the right situation.
Kadri+Frattin+Reimer?

Not to mention they have a coupla decent center rentals like the tired name Bozak or Lombardi who would be the perfect 3rd line center on any contending team, if healthy.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Topper » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:29 pm

Kadri has all the appeal Kyle Wellwood when he was a leaf.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby BurningBeard » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:47 pm

Strangelove wrote:Former 7th overall Kadri seems to be rounding into form

Making jokes about player's weight is below you.
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