Amnesty Buyout

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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Vader » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:41 pm

herb wrote: I don’t think you just dump anybody because they are ‘overpaid’ until you have a better option to fill in that role.



But that's the thing...you do dump an overpaid player because there's a one-time, no cap hit, opportunity to do so. It's not like you have 2/3rd buy out hit plus cap hit of the replacement player cost to consider. Also, there won't be a punitive salary coming back in a trade (let's keep in mind there likely salary coming back in any Luongo trade). So, if there's a cap crunch this coming offseason, and if there's some good, cheap UFA's this offseason, then Booth is the next logical guy after Ballard to go. And buyout is more of an option than people realize, after all he was practically given away on a 64M cap. Can Gillis give him away of the cap falls more?

Agree with most of everything else you wrote
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Larry Goodenough » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:53 pm

Strangelove wrote:Booth is not defensively minded but he’s not afraid to drive to the net and go to the dirty areas. His GPG numbers have always been solid, even last season when his PP time was reduced (exactly where you would want your second-liner numbers to be). He’s not the smartest guy in town and with the cap going down (percentage of cap is a factor) he suddenly becomes more overpaid, yes.

But for the time being Booth fills a need on the 2nd line. The jury is still out on how overpaid he is. So what to do? Well we play the hell out of him in a shortened season and trade him in the summer IF he doesn’t perform up to snuff and IF we have a better option. No need to buy him out, he’s a proven net-crashing second-line goal-scorer… there are always teams looking for those. The fact he’s overpaid brings his trade value way down in this day & age, but hey no need for a buyout imo.

For now, especially with Kesler out, we’re going to need this goal-scorer on the 2nd line.


Here's some comparative stuff I found on Booth. This info might speak to Booth's all around game and value to the team rather than a rudimentary "he needs to score 55 points and be more physical".

367 forwards played 40+ games last season. Booth was 84th in goals scored per every 60 minutes of ice time amongst these 367. He scored at this rate despite little time on the 1st powerplay unit, a gimp for a centre from February on and a knee injury mid-season. He also played 125 fewer minutes on the powerplay last season than the season before in Florida.

There are 90 forwards in the league that play on a first line - so Booth scored goals at a first line rate. Guys that scored at a lesser rate included Kopitar, Backes, Kane, Brad Richards, Mikko Koivu, Clowe, Doan, Lecavalier, Carter, Selanne, Elias, St Louis, Bergeron. $4.5 M in this context looks like good value.

Booth had the 4th best even strength scoring chance differential on the team last year behind the Sedins and Higgins. And he did that in only 56 games. Can't do that if you are not defensively strong.

In terms of puck possession, zone starts and competition faced - Booth matched up very closely with Alfredsson, Ladd, Horton, Justin Williams, Taylor Hall and Kunitz. They all make between $4.8M and $3.7 M.

I can see why people get frustrated with Booth. But it appears to mainly stem from a misunderstanding of what he brings to the team and misguided comparables. We shouldn't rant about our apples for not being oranges.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Vader » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:26 pm

Larry Goodenough wrote:
Here's some comparative stuff I found on Booth. This info might speak to Booth's all around game and value to the team rather than a rudimentary "he needs to score 55 points and be more physical".

367 forwards played 40+ games last season. Booth was 84th in goals scored per every 60 minutes of ice time amongst these 367. He scored at this rate despite little time on the 1st powerplay unit, a gimp for a centre from February on and a knee injury mid-season. He also played 125 fewer minutes on the powerplay last season than the season before in Florida.

There are 90 forwards in the league that play on a first line - so Booth scored goals at a first line rate. Guys that scored at a lesser rate included Kopitar, Backes, Kane, Brad Richards, Mikko Koivu, Clowe, Doan, Lecavalier, Carter, Selanne, Elias, St Louis, Bergeron. $4.5 M in this context looks like good value.

Booth had the 4th best even strength scoring chance differential on the team last year behind the Sedins and Higgins. And he did that in only 56 games. Can't do that if you are not defensively strong.

In terms of puck possession, zone starts and competition faced - Booth matched up very closely with Alfredsson, Ladd, Horton, Justin Williams, Taylor Hall and Kunitz. They all make between $4.8M and $3.7 M.

I can see why people get frustrated with Booth. But it appears to mainly stem from a misunderstanding of what he brings to the team and misguided comparables. We shouldn't rant about our apples for not being oranges.


Well shit, I'm sold. Let's not buy out Booth. Let's trade him for Taylor Hall or Mikko Koivu. Because these stats say he's comparable
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Uncle dans leg » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:30 pm

I think we would be far happier with his game if he hadn't have had his knee blown out by Porter last fall. He was starting to become a force for us for the 4-5 games before that injury and I was starting to really notice him out there.
I have to give him a break until I see him play a whole year.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Vader » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:32 pm

Y'all missing the point here. Booth was brought in, on a gamble, to see if he could recapture his form from a few years back and to shave some chemistry with Kesler, who clearly needed an upgrade on the wing. Forgetting cap hit, and all the other BS, He showed neither. He showed he's a 40 point guy, like every other year except one in the past 5 years. Gillis needs to find a better winger for Kesler.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby herb » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:39 pm

[quote="Vader"]But that's the thing...you do dump an overpaid player because there's a one-time, no cap hit, opportunity to do so.[quote]

You only do so if there is a better option to replace what he brings to the second line. You don't just dump him if it means that spot needs to be filled by Jannik Hansen. Sure, Hansen may have a better bang for the buck, but replacing Booth with Hansen on the second line does not make the team better.

At this point, we have no idea what the Canucks cap situation is going to be for the 2013/14 season, which makes it very hard to comment. Luongo will likely be gone, and there are a bunch of UFAs like Malhotra, Raymond, Higgins, Lapierre, Edler, Alberts and Ebbet which comes to about $18M in cap hit.

I think the first contract you look at to open up cap space in a decreasing cap world is Ballard. He, by a huge margin, provides the worst bang for the buck on the Canucks and I think even he can be traded at the very least. Ignoring other variables (such as, duh, those two roster spots will need to be filled), Luongo and Ballard equate to $9.5M in cap hit. Trading those two contracts would compensate for the upcoming cap decrease.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Larry Goodenough » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:27 pm

Vader wrote:Y'all missing the point here. Booth was brought in, on a gamble, to see if he could recapture his form from a few years back and to shave some chemistry with Kesler, who clearly needed an upgrade on the wing. Forgetting cap hit, and all the other BS, He showed neither. He showed he's a 40 point guy, like every other year except one in the past 5 years. Gillis needs to find a better winger for Kesler.


Point totals do not mean you're good at hockey.

Puck possession and two way play means you're good at hockey.

Compared to the rest of the League's 2nd liners, Booth's puck possession and two way play was very good when with Kesler. And it was with a gimpy Kesler. They may be even better together when Kesler's healthy.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:25 pm

Larry Goodenough wrote:I can see why people get frustrated with Booth. But it appears to mainly stem from a misunderstanding of what he brings to the team and misguided comparables. We shouldn't rant about our apples for not being oranges.


Yup, he's a great skating big body who goes to the net hard.

Also, with Kesler out for half the season Booth is the odds-on favorite to finish the season 3rd in GOAL-scoring.

Did I mention GOAL-scoring?

Overpaid or not your Vancouver Canucks need David Booth right now.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby RoyalDude » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:44 pm

Vader wrote:Y'all missing the point here. Booth was brought in, on a gamble, to see if he could recapture his form from a few years back and to shave some chemistry with Kesler, who clearly needed an upgrade on the wing. Forgetting cap hit, and all the other BS, He showed neither. He showed he's a 40 point guy, like every other year except one in the past 5 years. Gillis needs to find a better winger for Kesler.



Vader, my good man. Throw in the towel. This is David Booth Land, there should be a caption underneath CanucksCorner.Com that reads, 'David Booths Fan Club' instead 'Canucks fans skate here'. Trust me, I've tried. You simply cannot say anything negative about David Booth around here. Focus your vitriol on Mason Raymond, you will make the grade here if you do, be loved by the members. Also, keep your criticisms of Ballard and Mike Gillis to a low roar. Make sure you express your love for Kassian and hatred for Hodgson every once in a while and most importantly show a great amount of respect and love for Manny Malhotra, he is like the new Trevor Linden dearly love-id around here. In general, outside of Luongo and Raymond, you simply cannot hate the remaining Canucks until they are traded. It's how they roll around here.

ALSO, never criticize Mike Gillis drafting and trading record. They simply don't want that kind of dialogue around here.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:51 pm

Well that was....... "interesting". :look:

Hey Dude where's your bum-buddy Freddy?? :mrgreen:
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:51 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Yup, he's a great skating big body who goes to the net hard.

Also, with Kesler out for half the season Booth is the odds-on favorite to finish the season 3rd in GOAL-scoring.

Did I mention GOAL-scoring?

Overpaid or not your Vancouver Canucks need David Booth right now.


Yes.... yes but does he wear spandex ???

Does his girlfriend have a third leg ??
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:56 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Yup, he's a great skating big body who goes to the net hard.

Also, with Kesler out for half the season Booth is the odds-on favorite to finish the season 3rd in GOAL-scoring.

Did I mention GOAL-scoring?

Overpaid or not your Vancouver Canucks need David Booth right now.


Yes.... yes but does he wear spandex ???

Does his girlfriend have a third leg ??


Even if he DID i heard Dude starts to shrivel around golden crosses!

There's a joke in there somewhere about vampires + sucking, but being the gentleman I am....
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Mondi » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:57 pm

Booth and Kassian are meatheads, with lots to prove. But, we shouldn't write them off before the puck drops.

What the Canucks need is an f-ing set up man to play with them on that second line.

Luongo for centre with hands would be helpful.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:16 pm

Kesler can pass the puck... just ask Samuelsson and Raymond who both had career years playing with him in 09-10.

I'd like to see what he can do when healthy , which we haven't seen since the Nashville series. I am not his biggest fan but ffs too many people want to throw the American out with the bath water.
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Re: Amnesty Buyout

Postby Tciso » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:02 pm

Vader wrote:Well shit, I'm sold. Let's not buy out Booth. Let's trade him for Taylor Hall or Mikko Koivu. Because these stats say he's comparable


If one of those guys were available, and if they were filling a needed role on the Canucks, and their respective GM went brain dead, then I would agree. But, no, they do not have too many stats that are comparible to Booth. But, I assume you were being sarcastic. At the same time, there are a ton of other non-stats theat need to be concidered when valuing a player. Salary is just one of the conciderations.

People seem to discount any or all of the reasons Florida had for giving Booth his current contract. Salary cap, previous performance, the need for talent, and filling a specific role on a crappy team all went into his contract. I doubt GMMG would have given Booth that kind of money as a UFA, but, when you are trading, the other guy's salary is already set.

If the Canucks are even concidering buying Booth out, they had better have locked up his replacemnt before the buyout. Still, I just can't see the team wasting the better part of 5 to 8 million to buy him out, and then turn around and spend the same kind of money of someone else who is hopefully a slight improvement, assuming that there is someone even available.
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