Idler Some More

The primary goal of this site is to provide mature, meaningful discussion about the Vancouver Canucks. However, we all need a break some time so this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest! This forum is named after poster Creeper, who passed away in July of 2011 and was a long time member of the Canucks message board community.

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Re: Idler Some More

Postby SKYO » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:11 pm

Well I find the small isolated reserves across Canada have the most problems with sheisty chiefs/councils and substance abuse amongst the people, but the rez's located near a major city like in Vancouver, the reserves are really well run and are succeeding in helping the people heal and grow with good support systems in place. This is especially true for the younger generation after a lot of parents whom are residential school survivers get counseling to be better parents/role models. Of course a lot don't get help and continue the vicious cycle of abuse and neglect. But there is a vast change in healing and growing from the residential school era. And the First Nation kids and young adults now are indeed becoming more educated now more than ever, and it's showing!

Anyways, Chief Theresa and the money woes aside, seen this on twitter, Idle No More is not about money, it's not about "us vs them" it's about protecting the air, land and water in Canada for the future generations.

Harper is trying vehemently to introduce new polices/bills to take control over Canada including on FN reserve land, to force through taking all the land resources he wants to sell to foreign countries and corporations.

So the only way to counter the Harper government is to:

- have all negotiating First Nations suspend their talks; and

- organize coordinated National Days of Action to register First Nations opposition to the Harper government’s termination plan;

- Demand Canada suspend all First Nations legislation in Parliament, cease introducing new Bills and

- Change Canada’s Land Claims and Self-Government Policies to “recognize and affirm” the Inherent, Aboriginal and Treaty Rights of First Nations, including respect and implementation of the Historic Treaties.


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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:48 pm

Skyo, FN reserves are a part of Canada. Idle Some More associates the policy changes with genocide. This is not the British attacking Culloden.

The environmental changes in the omnibus bills that the Idler are complaining about, in fact remove extra levels of red tape. Some of that red tape removal is at the request of the AFN. They do not lessen environmental practices.

Idle no more is a response to the close re-election of a moderate reformer, Sean Atleo, by the old guard welfare Wednesdays.

While Atleo is is going about reforms to progress FN communities. Traditional ways of being a hunter/gatherer do not work and have not worked for over a hundred years. It is why we have places like Attawapiskat. The site was a meeting place of an essentially nomadic hunter/gatherer culture.

The most recent data I can find is from Oct 2011. There are 630 FN communities in Canada. 67 of those had financial woes to the degree that Abo Affairs had put them under co-management. A bit more than 10% of the FN communities. This is the level that Attawapiskat was at a year ago when Chief Spence complained of her housing crisis.

A further 11 FN communities, nearly 2% of FN communities are under 3rd Party management because their finances are a disaster. This is the level that Abo Affairs put Attawapiskat at a year ago and it remained there until June.

That puts Attawapiskat, within the the bottom 13%. Near but not at the bottom 2%.

A year ago, when Spence raised the awareness of the housing crisis the Government imposed a 3rd Party manager but Spence and her boyfriend thrrew the appointed manager out and took Abo Affairs to court over the matter.

It strikes me as very odd that they would refuse help to get their finances in order while asking for more money. It certainly does not inspire any confidence that they are trying to do better for their community.

Attawapiskat returned to co-management after somehow winning their court date in June of 2012, here they are back asking for more.

Found this interesting article with a letter from a retired Doctor who served in the James Bay area. It highlights many of the issues and suggest remedies or at least directions forward. Some I agree with.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/10/jonathan-kay-whats-wrong-with-remote-native-reserves-lets-ask-a-doctor-who-worked-there-for-43-years/
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Arachnid » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:03 pm

Topper wrote:Skyo, FN reserves are a part of Canada. Idle Some More associates the policy changes with genocide. This is not the British attacking Culloden.

The environmental changes in the omnibus bills that the Idler are complaining about, in fact remove extra levels of red tape. Some of that red tape removal is at the request of the AFN. They do not lessen environmental practices.

Idle no more is a response to the close re-election of a moderate reformer, Sean Atleo, by the old guard welfare Wednesdays.

While Atleo is is going about reforms to progress FN communities. Traditional ways of being a hunter/gatherer do not work and have not worked for over a hundred years. It is why we have places like Attawapiskat. The site was a meeting place of an essentially nomadic hunter/gatherer culture.

The most recent data I can find is from Oct 2011. There are 630 FN communities in Canada. 67 of those had financial woes to the degree that Abo Affairs had put them under co-management. A bit more than 10% of the FN communities. This is the level that Attawapiskat was at a year ago when Chief Spence complained of her housing crisis.

A further 11 FN communities, nearly 2% of FN communities are under 3rd Party management because their finances are a disaster. This is the level that Abo Affairs put Attawapiskat at a year ago and it remained there until June.

That puts Attawapiskat, within the the bottom 13%. Near but not at the bottom 2%.

A year ago, when Spence raised the awareness of the housing crisis the Government imposed a 3rd Party manager but Spence and her boyfriend thrrew the appointed manager out and took Abo Affairs to court over the matter.

It strikes me as very odd that they would refuse help to get their finances in order while asking for more money. It certainly does not inspire any confidence that they are trying to do better for their community.

Attawapiskat returned to co-management after somehow winning their court date in June of 2012, here they are back asking for more.

Found this interesting article with a letter from a retired Doctor who served in the James Bay area. It highlights many of the issues and suggest remedies or at least directions forward. Some I agree with.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/10/jonathan-kay-whats-wrong-with-remote-native-reserves-lets-ask-a-doctor-who-worked-there-for-43-years/


Topper, as SKYO had mentioned this is not about mismanagement of finances or the Federal governments ineptitude since confederation. This is about a way forward that INCLUDES all the First Nations as stakeholders. They have to decide their fate.
The Federal governments change to the environmental regulations to allow the Chiefs to develop their natural resources is just a ploy to allow companies to exploit the First Nations. You'd have to be some kind of idiot to just allow it to happen

I feel I can speak of this as I have been in communication with one of the founders of Idle No More. Funny enough it was in regards to sustainable and resilient communities, as well as, developing buildings that are extremely efficient in their long term maintenance and harsh conditions.
My time at Birkenhead/Pemberton has given me an incredible insight into a native bands inner workings.
Those in the city have no idea what is to work with First Nations peoples.

This is about solutions. Yes, some may be control of resources by First Nations on their reservations but that is not enough.
It's extremely ironic that after Europeans kicked them off their traditional lands to remote isolated places that cost so much money and resources over all these years and it is now the resources that will save them.
Same thing is happening in Ecuador and Bolivia as I'm sure you are aware given your background and culture.

My partner is a Youth & Child worker and will be going into the Northern Communities this Spring. Being of European origin I had always warned her of Canada's great shame. Our Third World. And now, in the past year it is being exposed to the world at large. There is a lot of work to be done. By all.
My Western redneck background is in full bloom when I step of the plane the jokes of drunken lazy indians abound. I can't change my family or friends attitudes but I can ask them to become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
Certainly the First Nations people I work with are some of the most intelligent and passionate people I have ever met.

The times are a change'n and it is fascinating how this will turn-out. The Harper Government™ has their hands full with this issue and can't blame foreign environmental donors for this one.

Forget about the media and the politicians and the Chiefs and come with some long term solutions....
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:32 pm

The Federal governments change to the environmental regulations to allow the Chiefs to develop their natural resources is just a ploy to allow companies to exploit the First Nations.[/quote]
No it isn't. These changes allow the bands to make those decisions themselves.

Arachnid wrote:My Western redneck background is in full bloom when I step of the plane the jokes of drunken lazy indians abound. I can't change my family or friends attitudes but I can ask them to become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

I've attended Band meeting to discuss opportunities to be involved with our projects and had Band representatives arrive drunk.

Certainly the First Nations people I work with are some of the most intelligent and passionate people I have ever met.[/quote]
Some Band member I have worked with likewise. Others, no. Unfortunately, to date, the bad have out numbered the good .

Arachnid wrote:The times are a change'n and it is fascinating how this will turn-out.

True, lets make sure all Canadians benefit.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Listercat » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:50 pm

Spidey, mismanagement is indeed apart of the whole issue. The Teresa Spence saga has clearly illustrated that to anyone who can think logically. Is financial accountability going to solve all problems we as a country face? No it won't, however, this situation has proven that the current system of "financial support" is broken.

The solution IMO is one where there is respect and integrity for both sides. The Harper Govt has done more in a few short years even when they had a minority than all the Libs going back to Trudeau. All of a sudden some Natives and I include the Idle no More group seem to think they can "demand" things now or they "have the power to shut down the economy". Is Gary Bettman on their negotiating team? This is a hundred year old problem that requires time and patience to fix. Baby steps before running. Some of the rhetoric I hear from the Natives reminds me of the the Blacks in Africa who wanted the Euros out. They got their wish and proceeded to run many economically sustainable countries into the ground because they were not equipped to operate them.

I am certain that the Harper Govt is not going to enact legislation that would enable unscrupulous individuals or corporations to steal resources. Topper mentioned this before but I will reiterate. The new legislation will streamline various processes in the resource industries not eliminate them. Environmental studies will still have to be completed, the Feds the provinces and all citizens will still have a voice. The cry wolf mentality has to stop if the "real work" is to start. The Natives have to be prepared to invest in the process the same as anyone else and if that means accepting some risk and taking responsibility so be it. Anything less and it is doomed to failure.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Island Nucklehead » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:32 pm

Listercat wrote:I am certain that the Harper Govt is not going to enact legislation that would enable unscrupulous individuals or corporations to steal resources.


Is that a joke? Cuz I laughed a bit when I read it...
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Arachnid » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:15 pm

Topper wrote:The Federal governments change to the environmental regulations to allow the Chiefs to develop their natural resources is just a ploy to allow companies to exploit the First Nations.

No it isn't. These changes allow the bands to make those decisions themselves.

Arachnid wrote:My Western redneck background is in full bloom when I step of the plane the jokes of drunken lazy indians abound. I can't change my family or friends attitudes but I can ask them to become part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

I've attended Band meeting to discuss opportunities to be involved with our projects and had Band representatives arrive drunk.

Certainly the First Nations people I work with are some of the most intelligent and passionate people I have ever met.[/quote]
Some Band member I have worked with likewise. Others, no. Unfortunately, to date, the bad have out numbered the good .

Arachnid wrote:The times are a change'n and it is fascinating how this will turn-out.

True, lets make sure all Canadians benefit.[/quote]

First
Have you been drinking young man? Beacuse your quotes are approaching Spud-like proportions...absolutley atroshishish Tops...either stop drink Kokenee and switch to Tree or I call the hop police :evil:

Second
Alcoholism is not the exclusive domain of aboriginals...they just have less practice than us Euro lushes...not kidding on this...alcoholism runs in my family and we are NOT native to this land. It has to be dealt with for sure but when you have children sniff glue, gasoline and bear dung and killing themselves at unprecedented rates there is something clearly wrong with the culture.

This is fundamental to moving forward.

Third
The First Nations are not educated or prepared to deal with their natural resources. it's changing but it will take time. Certainly not in a 4 year political cycle. It's generational thing.
At Ryerson we have the Centre for Indigenous Governance. It's about education and empowerment but not the European way. First Nations have their own way to govern themselves (and justice for that matter).

Everyone has their specialty. First Nations do not see resources to be exploited and then it's gone. It is a longer process than that. They had control before, casinos (great, another addiction we introduced them to) are not the answer either.
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