Brian Burke is Dead!

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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Topper » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:28 pm

Arachnid wrote:Zeedslurp...you're dead to me...stop sending me messages that you want to date...I'm not that kind of girl... 8-)

Forward them to Burke's son.
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Arachnid » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:04 pm

Topper wrote:
Arachnid wrote:Zeedslurp...you're dead to me...stop sending me messages that you want to date...I'm not that kind of girl... 8-)

Forward them to Burke's son.


:o

I sent them to Hockey Widow...she's that kinda girl!
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby damonberryman » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:30 pm

It is odd how most of us think BB was fired due to not trading for Lou. Is it the reason, one of the reasons, or simply more evidence of how our world revolves around the Canucks. We are starting to sound like Leaf fans where everything is about them. I do not want Kadri. Give us Briggs. He will fit the new model.
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:38 pm

I like Burkie and all, but I do think he's a bit over-rated as a GM. I heard that his personal marital problems with Jennifer Mather might of been a factor in his demise, anyone know what happened there?

He also had some feuds with Don Cherry over there. While he had a lot of clout in bullying media types like Dan Russell here, but if he's going to try to take on Grapes in TO, he has no chance. :P

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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby BurningBeard » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:32 pm

damonberryman wrote:It is odd how most of us think BB was fired due to not trading for Lou. Is it the reason, one of the reasons, or simply more evidence of how our world revolves around the Canucks. We are starting to sound like Leaf fans where everything is about them. I do not want Kadri. Give us Briggs. He will fit the new model.

It's the Toronto media reporting that rumor.
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:08 pm

Ok, here is what I have been told. As always, rumour, gossip and innuendo but it sort of makes sense.

At the end of last season Burke was braced to be fired. But nothing happened and along came the draft. Then the Leaf deal closed august/Sept whenever it was and he braced to be fired. He was told that the team was committed moving forward for one more year but like all teams Burke was given his "report card". In no uncertain terms he was told that failure to make the playoffs was unacceptable.


As the summer came to a close and the lockout loomed he had a very strong impression that he was simply not well liked by the new board. He began to believe that the situation would get worse and that it was just a matter of time for something to happen. He did not like the new board and they did not like him.

Then along comes the lock out and he was given a very strong impression that no changes would be made until the end of the season, if there was one. By October he felt that he had one more year, failure to make the playoffs and he was toast. He did not see this firing coming and was shocked that it happened when it did and they way it did. He puts it down to extreme dislike on both sides and not any one issue. Cannot and would not elaborate on the Luongo situation as he is still under contract with the Leafs but strongly suggested that it was not any one issue, personality issues from the suits and boardroom executive types he has nothing but disdain for.

On the Luongo issue, here is what I can get, most of it you already know, perhaps all of it.

There never was a deal in place. At no time was, or has, Luongo been asked to waive his NTC. MG told him he will only ask when he has a deal he feels is a good hockey deal and he won't use the NTC as a bargaining chip for other teams to try and increase the offer. Has a gentleman's agreement that if a trade comes along that MG likes he will give the Florida teams a chance to offer a similar deal to try and get Luongo to Florida BUT Luongo will not hold up a deal and put MG in an impossible situation. Luongo wants to go to Florida as we all know and MG will try to make that happen but both parties understand that if MG has a deal he likes he will be reluctant to use that to try and pry more out of Florida.


So, the Leafs and Canucks have held many talks about Luongo. Burke was convinced that the new CBA would be far more punitive on the back diving deals. He had lobbied that the cap recapture on players retiring early be 100% and was convinced that that was what was going to go through. He had also asked for additional penalties of loss of a draft pick or draft pick compensation. That went no where and the cap re-capture is what it is. Burke also lobbied hard for being able to retain cap in a trade. He also believed that there would be a much lower cap and did not anticipate 70 M pro rated or 64.3 next season with any buy out options. He banked on the new CBA being much harder on the players than it is and banked on that being impetus for getting Luongo for a steal.


Burke used this information to try and strong arm MG into a deal MG did not want. It was the old, "No one will ever love as much as I do" situation. Burke kept telling people that if the Canucks did not deal Luongo before the new CBA then any trade would be far worse for them. He in fact would insist on the Canucks keeping cap and his offer would only get lower than it was before the lockout. MG did not buy into this and thus no deal was struck.


The only deal was the one in Burke's mind. I don't know exactly who he offered but he became convinced that when the lockout was over he would have all these clauses and that Canucks would have to salary dump Luongo. There are pieces that both clubs agree to in principle but no overall deal in place. The main stumbling block of course is a blue chip player coming back. If Burke was not so stubborn there was a deal that could have been made. It's not that he didn't want Luongo, he did, he just felt he could get a steal, sort of how we got Ehrhoff.

So the new CBA gets done and Burke's gamble failed. The cap re-capture is not overly punitive, there is not loss of draft pick as a punitive measure, the cap is 70 M pro rated with 64.3 next season and each team can exercise up to 2 buy outs. What this means is that a few teams that were in on Luongo but wanted to wait until the new landscape was here may now be back in the picture. A couple of teams would love for the Canucks to keep Luongo and not trade him until the summer when they can exercise their buy outs. So suddenly there is a potential for a growing market for Luongo not a shrinking one, which there was just before the lock out.

The Canucks want a centre and a top young D'man as the minimum. A draft pick would be nice. They are willing to move other pieces with Luongo to make it happen.

The Leafs have the money, they have the cap and they need a goalie.

So my take is that Luongo was not the reason Burke was fired. His arrogance and strong arm approach to life just got in the way of his new corporate owners who want a smoother face. But why today? Because there is an expectation that there will be a flood of activity once the CBA is ratified and the board did not have the confidence that Burke was the one they wanted leading the trade charge on behalf of the Leafs, coupled with their extreme dislike for the guy. And the new board plans to be more involved in the development of the team, not in a day to day hands on approach but more as part of the planning and development process. A situation they knew Burke could not work in.


See, no new information!
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Arachnid » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:29 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:Ok, here is what I have been told....HWs hotness....

See, no new information!



Thank Widow, you're beautiful! 8-)
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:38 pm

Arachnid wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Ok, here is what I have been told....HWs hotness....

See, no new information!



Thank Widow, you're beautiful! 8-)



Still waiting for you to ask me out!
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Arachnid » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:58 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
Arachnid wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:Ok, here is what I have been told....HWs hotness....

See, no new information!



Thank Widow, you're beautiful! 8-)



Still waiting for you to ask me out!


:oops:

Ummm...I have a strict policy not to date any CC participants*...sorry HW...it's just business...nothing personal :mex:

I could hook you up with DeadZed if you like...he's got inside information on trading on the VSE 8-)


*although, exceptions can be made ;)
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby SKYO » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:07 pm

^heh

Thanks HW! I also think that the new board thought if Burke does get Luongo, the TML have a way better chance to make the playoffs, making it that much harder to relieve Burke of his GM duties.

Luongo will transform the Leafs into a better team by far, much like how he stabilized the once goalie graveyard the Canucks used to be. Nonis understands this, and he will get this deal done.

Heard Philly could be players in the Luongo sweepstakes now?
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Hockey Widow » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:16 pm

SKYO wrote:^heh

Thanks HW! I also think that the new board thought if Burke does get Luongo, the TML have a way better chance to make the playoffs, making it that much harder to relieve Burke of his GM duties.

Luongo will transform the Leafs into a better team by far, much like how he stabilized the once goalie graveyard the Canucks used to be. Nonis understands this, and he will get this deal done.

Heard Philly could be players in the Luongo sweepstakes now?



Philly cannot buy out until the end of the season so I think they are one team that would love for the Canucks to wait. Of course they can't talk yet so who knows. But if the Flyers already believe they would rather have Luongo in net and are committed to buying out whats his name no matter what, should Luongo be available to them, then I think if they make a good offer then MG just may wait. But it depends I suppose on what else is there. Keeping in mind that Luongo and his agent will know the landscape and if Luongo would prefer Philly he may nix a trade with Toronto forcing MG to wait.

I think the big issue is that the new CBA does not appear to heavily penalize or to be too onerous for the Canucks with respect to the cap re-capture issue so Luongo's cap is good and should he retire early any team interested gets off the hook, which was the issue anyway, even though it wasn't because if he retires early there would have been no cap penalty as he signed his deal before he was whatever age he had to be for there not to be a penalty. So maybe the Burke clause makes a deal easier for some teams to swallow, I dunno.

Funny thing is Roberto can trigger a trade in two years anyway so a team dealing for him now I am sure would want him to waive that clause.
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Hank » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:33 pm

Excellent as always, HW.

Love (reading) your scoops!
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:48 pm

Wouldn't it be funny if one day it was discovered that Hockey Widow is a medicated schizo, hospital shut-in lunatic given access to a computer and is a big Canuck fan and all this stuff she goes on about is a fabrication of her paranoid, delusional mind.
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Soapy » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:56 pm

RoyalDude wrote:Wouldn't it be funny if one day it was discovered that Hockey Widow is a medicated schizo, hospital shut-in lunatic given access to a computer and is a big Canuck fan and all this stuff she goes on about is a fabrication of her paranoid, delusional mind.


ummm....no
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Re: Brian Burke is Dead!

Postby Soapy » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:02 pm

Hockey Widow wrote:
SKYO wrote:^heh

Thanks HW! I also think that the new board thought if Burke does get Luongo, the TML have a way better chance to make the playoffs, making it that much harder to relieve Burke of his GM duties.

Luongo will transform the Leafs into a better team by far, much like how he stabilized the once goalie graveyard the Canucks used to be. Nonis understands this, and he will get this deal done.

Heard Philly could be players in the Luongo sweepstakes now?



Philly cannot buy out until the end of the season so I think they are one team that would love for the Canucks to wait. Of course they can't talk yet so who knows. But if the Flyers already believe they would rather have Luongo in net and are committed to buying out whats his name no matter what, should Luongo be available to them, then I think if they make a good offer then MG just may wait. But it depends I suppose on what else is there. Keeping in mind that Luongo and his agent will know the landscape and if Luongo would prefer Philly he may nix a trade with Toronto forcing MG to wait.

I think the big issue is that the new CBA does not appear to heavily penalize or to be too onerous for the Canucks with respect to the cap re-capture issue so Luongo's cap is good and should he retire early any team interested gets off the hook, which was the issue anyway, even though it wasn't because if he retires early there would have been no cap penalty as he signed his deal before he was whatever age he had to be for there not to be a penalty. So maybe the Burke clause makes a deal easier for some teams to swallow, I dunno.

Funny thing is Roberto can trigger a trade in two years anyway so a team dealing for him now I am sure would want him to waive that clause.


Awesome posts....
I would like to see the Canucks keep Luongo until this summer. Opens up a lot more teams to amnesty contracts. I know Philly would love to have Lou. I would think Tampa would be in the conversation as well...
Toronto is not in any type of power position as the Canucks do not HAVE to trade Lou
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