So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Strangelove » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:12 pm

^^^ FINALLY some answers, thanks CC. That makes a lot more sense than what the 2 sides were discussing a few weeks ago. This means GMMG is definitely gonna wanna trade Lou asap. It also means that there would effectively be no future penalty to a team like Florida (not a cap-max team).

It also means if Lou is traded tomorrow and retires in the summer of 2021

.... Canucks would have a cap-hit of $6,049,334 for Retired-Luongo in 2021-22! :shock:
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Strangelove » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:18 pm

Strangelove wrote:Okay, here's a crazy idea.

My FIRST EVER crazy idea!

I'm not sure how this new 'Salary Retention in Trades' thingy works, but it probably goes by percentage.

Okay so we offer to pay 44% of Roberto's salary, retaining 44% of his cap-hit.

That would be $3mil on a $6.714mil salary and ~ $2.5mil of a cap-hit.

Now, why the hell would we do that?

Well we only do it if the centerpiece coming back is named Jonathan Huberdeau!

The cap-space we lose in paying $2.5mil of Lou's hit is partially offset by a coupla factors:

1. Huberdeau is presently on an entry-level salary.

2. Resigning superstars are underpaid in today's NHL (for example, Crosby might get $20mil-per in a non-CBA NHL).

Now if you disagree with #2, you're probably not going to like this proposal.

If you don't think Huberdeau is "superstar" material you're definitely not going to like this proposal.

So yeah we lose $2.5mil cap-space until Lou retires, at which time it goes up to ~ $3.5mil for a couple more.

BUT WE GET HUBERDEAU!!! :thumbs:

Panthers get a top-ten goalie for peanut crumbs per year so they're happy, wuddaya say guys?

EDIT: swap out Huberdeau for Gudbranson if you like!


*


With the info from Friedman, everything remains the same except the cap-hit would fall, not increase, after Lou retires.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Topper » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:29 pm

So Cocco, Bobby Lou gets run over in the crease as the Panthers are fading down the stretch in 2016 and falls down, bumps his noggin........caprecap goes bye-bye.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby coco_canuck » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:49 pm

Strangelove wrote:It also means if Lou is traded tomorrow and retires in the summer of 2021

.... Canucks would have a cap-hit of $6,049,334 for Retired-Luongo in 2021-22! :shock:


Yeah, as it was said by someone on twitter, that's the quirky part of it.

Topper wrote:So Cocco, Bobby Lou gets run over in the crease as the Panthers are fading down the stretch in 2016 and falls down, bumps his noggin........caprecap goes bye-bye.


Ask Kassian to go to the net, hard.

As long as he stays on LTIR it won't count against the cap. Since LTIR, as far as I know, stays the same, this should be a viable option.

It wouldn't be a tough sell to the player if he suffered a career ending type injury....stay away and collect your pay for not playing.

Word is Philly is basically going to do this with Pronger until his deal expires.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:29 pm

It certainly appears than that this clause will not hinder a trade but in fact should help foster one.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Topper » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:42 pm

coco_canuck wrote:Word is Philly is basically going to do this with Pronger until his deal expires.

Too bad Holmgren/Clarke make Burke llok like a genius when it come to evaluating goaltending talent.

Speaking of which, I saw a headline (NP?) where Carlyle believes he has NHL goaltending.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Hockey Widow » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:59 pm

Topper wrote:
coco_canuck wrote:Word is Philly is basically going to do this with Pronger until his deal expires.

Too bad Holmgren/Clarke make Burke llok like a genius when it come to evaluating goaltending talent.

Speaking of which, I saw a headline (NP?) where Carlyle believes he has NHL goaltending.



TSN showed a clip of him speaking. He did say they have NHL talent in net, but he fell short of saying how good he thought that NHL talent was. It sounded like a pat answer to a question but there was little conviction behind his words.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby coco_canuck » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:17 pm

Topper wrote:Speaking of which, I saw a headline (NP?) where Carlyle believes he has NHL goaltending.


I'm pretty sure that was misspeak or a typo, clearly meant AHL goaltending...

If Roberto is going to Toronto, Burke will pay a nice price.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby wafflecombine » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:10 am

Hockey Widow wrote:10 years from now, maybe 8, we will have to deal with a new CBA. No one knows what it will look like. It may deal with some of these cap-recapture issues or may even allow more amnesty buy outs. If we have the risk of having to take on Luongo's cap or some portion of it in a trade then I think it will allow us to get a better return. After all most people say he is untradeable because of his contract so if you fix this then what obstacles are left.

No reason why we can't trade for his rights then send him to the AHL. Another point, if we trade for his rights back then the cap-recapture clause should not apply because we were the team that signed him no? All this is too much speculation anyway. If there is a penalty then MG will deal with that and factor it into any trade.


I respect what you have to say on this HW but this scenario really leaves me uncomfortable. Despite what the lou haters and even the lou lovers have to say, a solid #1 like Lou doesn't deserve to get buried in the minors like that; even under the scenario you outline. The Canucks created the albatros contract (though it pales to the stuff signed this summer by other players), if they need him gone then use one of their amnesty buy-outs this summer and let both parties walk away with their heads high.

Though I may be wrong, I believe doing anything less that (hockey trade or buyout) does more harm to Van and its brand then it does to Lou. Players gotta want to come here. Just sayin.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:25 am

wafflecombine wrote:
Hockey Widow wrote:10 years from now, maybe 8, we will have to deal with a new CBA. No one knows what it will look like. It may deal with some of these cap-recapture issues or may even allow more amnesty buy outs. If we have the risk of having to take on Luongo's cap or some portion of it in a trade then I think it will allow us to get a better return. After all most people say he is untradeable because of his contract so if you fix this then what obstacles are left.

No reason why we can't trade for his rights then send him to the AHL. Another point, if we trade for his rights back then the cap-recapture clause should not apply because we were the team that signed him no? All this is too much speculation anyway. If there is a penalty then MG will deal with that and factor it into any trade.


I respect what you have to say on this HW but this scenario really leaves me uncomfortable. Despite what the lou haters and even the lou lovers have to say, a solid #1 like Lou doesn't deserve to get buried in the minors like that; even under the scenario you outline. The Canucks created the albatros contract (though it pales to the stuff signed this summer by other players), if they need him gone then use one of their amnesty buy-outs this summer and let both parties walk away with their heads high.

Though I may be wrong, I believe doing anything less that (hockey trade or buyout) does more harm to Van and its brand then it does to Lou. Players gotta want to come here. Just sayin.


I think what she means is in 7-8 years when luongo is done as a NHL calibre player and ready to retire, the Canucks can trade for his rights back and assign him on paper to the the farm where he could "play" out his contract for the money as a player coach etc... or he could be placed on LTIR if he has a wonky knee or some other likely ailment that will be a career ender.

in other words if we are on the hook in this recapture thing. we at least have his rights back and can make what use we can.
as an aside I cant see what Luongo would have to bitch about. he signed the contract and it got paid out, no one really believed he would be a number one till he was 44 did they?
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby wafflecombine » Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:03 am

Ah, thanks UK for the clarification. I appreciate it.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby Eddy Punch Clock » Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:19 am

Topper wrote:
coco_canuck wrote:Speaking of which, I saw a headline (NP?) where Carlyle believes he has NHL goaltending.


I agree with him. When the season starts he will have two goalies that play in the NHL.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby ESQ » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:24 pm

ukcanuck wrote:I think what she means is in 7-8 years when luongo is done as a NHL calibre player and ready to retire, the Canucks can trade for his rights back and assign him on paper to the the farm where he could "play" out his contract for the money as a player coach etc... or he could be placed on LTIR if he has a wonky knee or some other likely ailment that will be a career ender.

If he refuses to report to the farm that would also relieve the cap and suspend the contract right? How did it work with Niedermayer, he didn't report to the NHL team and got suspended, so he wasn't paid and he wasn't on the cap right?

Also, to blow the whole thing wide open, apparently nowPhilly is in the sweepstakes. A team with great prospects, but I gotta think we'd take a shitty contract back. I'd think Couturier would be Gillis' demand
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby tantalum » Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:16 am

Could be intriguing if Philly really is interested and Nonis has pressure on him to make a deal. But there are a couple of large ifs in that statement.

Still can't for the life of me figure out why the Caps don't seem to be interested. Seems silly to me to pin hopes on two inexperienced goaltenders.
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Re: So, who would you like in a return for Luongo

Postby dbr » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:38 am

I would bet Gillis is pushing for John Carlson like he did when shopping Hodgson.. Or if he is asking for a centre like many have speculated the Caps might have decided they don't have the organizational depth (just Backstrom and Johannsen after this season if I'm not mistaken) to make a serious push.

But then again maybe they are interested and are keeping a low profile. I'm sure that couldn't hurt their chances when dealing with Mike Gillis.
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