Idler Some More

The primary goal of this site is to provide mature, meaningful discussion about the Vancouver Canucks. However, we all need a break some time so this forum is basically for anything off-topic, off the wall, or to just get something off your chest! This forum is named after poster Creeper, who passed away in July of 2011 and was a long time member of the Canucks message board community.

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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:18 pm

ukcanuck wrote:The fact is that this woman, no matter how misguided dumb or crooked has brought attention to a problem and dismissing her and her supporters is a just another mistake we can throw on the pile


I think Fish-Soup Spence is actually doing "her people" no favours with this diet. Idle No More may have some valid points that need to be discussed, but they certainly have little to do with her crusade to obscure the fact that she's a fraudster and has almost certainly taken money assigned to the band and lined her (and her "co-manager"/boyfriend's) pockets with it.

I played lacrosse with the son of a local chief back in the day. Kid drove a brand new mustang, folks lived in a nice house with all the fancy shit. Boy was tight with the white kids in school, obviously had money. Nobody else on the reserve had sweet fuck all. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how crooked things are on many reserves.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Listercat » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:23 pm

Assimilate, are you kidding. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Yes the "reserve system" was a mistake, isn't 20/20 hindsight grand! The present government is trying to rectify past mistakes by giving the Natives the ability to determine their own future. Mistakes were made and they have been apologized for and paid for. At some point in time people whether they be Native or any other race must step up and take responsibility for their own lives. Continued attempts to blackmail and enslave others for past sins does not help them with self determination. See Africa.

What has Teresa Spence accomplished in real terms? What "problem" has she addressed? What solutions has she offered to her perceived problems? She hasn't said anything specific other than a "demand" to meet with the PM. Give your head a shake man. She is a con artist who has been caught with her hand in the taxpayers pocket. If she was the Mayor of your hometown she would be charged with fraud.

BTW "from each according to his ability to each according to his need" is a quote you should know with your socialist leanings. It comes from Karl Marx in Das Kapital. Clarence Louie did indeed tell his membership that they had to work or go. Some may have left but the majority stayed and are learning trades and other marketable skills. It can be done, it should be done and at some point it will be done.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Meds » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:44 pm

ukcanuck wrote:yeah wanted to respond to that in the strike thread just haven't had time to give it justice. To me wealth comes from the bottom up, its created by the blood sweat and tears of the people. Money represents that work and those that have amassed the most of it seem to think that they are the ones that did the work. They didn't. they are smart at finding ways to get more of it, and the system allows money to make more of it, but the fact remains that without the people who work in the factories, who put in the time on the clock, who buy and consume the goods and the services. The rich would be choking on their cake. so to me its the other way round as far a a sense of entitlement goes. There is a reason why the farmer is smart to treat his plow horse like one of the family.


Except in this you are only half right. Sure the consumer side of things is accurate, but NA society is fraught with people who consume and consume but don't actually contribute anything back. Look no further than many of the first nations in Canada, they suck finances out of the treaties but other than their consumer spending they contribute next to nothing and just think they should be given more. I'm in and out of these residences on a regular basis in my job, they are dumps, there is stuff piled everywhere and nothing is maintained. They simply use, abuse, and then as for more. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty or other people out there that are not first nations that do the exact same thing, they just don't have the luxury of falling back on treaty money. Sometimes it is the result of misfortune, mostly it is the result of laziness, substance abuse, and lifestyle choice.

uk wrote:As for this issue, the plight of the aboriginal in the face of colonialism is well documented and while it maybe that this particular woman has issues about credibility. the movement itself is not a tempest in a tea cup. there are some significant wrongs that need to be righted and their is a legacy over residential schools and imposed western culture including the division between hereditary chiefs and the elected ones who could be seen as an "uncle tom" set up.


How many generations have to be "repaid" for these "wrongs that need to be righted"? They go on about this "imposed" western culture, but the majority of them would be totally lost without it. They crave everything about our consumer culture. They have ALL OF THE TOYS. They don't take care of them. If the Canadian governement were to come to the table and say" You can do what you want with your land, you can govern yourselves traditionally, you can police yourselves as you see fit, but if you enter Crown land you must abide by our laws while there. You will also no longer receive handouts from Ottawa, you will no longer receive welfare, you can live traditionally, you can hunt traditionally, if you want to build homes as you see fit, you may, but you will build them yourselves, if you want to access the electrical grid, you will have to pay for it yourselves and we will sell it to you just the same as we would anyone else. The same will apply to all processed natural resources and all consumer amenities. You will have to pay for access to Canada's healthcare systems or you can develop your own. You can CHOOSE where you want to live but you will no longer be given a free ride, if you want to live in our society then you will enjoy exactly the same rights, freedoms, and privileges that every other citizen enjoys.....you will not be given more, nor will you be given less. If you choose to go your own way then you will be treated as we would treat any other foreign sovereign, if you infringe upon our land and rights, if you do harm to our way of life or any of our citizens, then we will respond accordingly.

I guarantee you they would choose the traditional ways and they would collapse within a decade as their population began to apply enmasse for Canadian citizenship and one by one they decided they liked having their plasma tvs and their cell phones, they liked their ipods and their computers, they missed their xbox and playstation, they forgot how convenient it was to get cheap shit from Walmart.

This a rather off the cuff and less than detailed or organized rant, but I know it gets the point across. The Canadian Aboriginal People have had a cake walk for the last 20 years or more. They have been GIVEN EVERYTHING that other Canadians have to work for. They leech off of our country's coffers while paying NOTHING into them because they are exempt from taxes. The bullshit has to stop, and it has to stop with the leftwing retards who rally to the native cause because they feel some need to make ammends for a wrong committed in the past. They were/are a conquered people.....but we didn't conquer them, the English and the French did that nearly 2 centuries ago. Sorry, it happened, time to move on, time to realize that what is done is done and that we cannot undo the past, but we can make a better future.....but we cannot buy that better future, it must be built and worked for.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:06 pm

Listercat wrote:Assimilate, are you kidding. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Yes the "reserve system" was a mistake, isn't 20/20 hindsight grand! The present government is trying to rectify past mistakes by giving the Natives the ability to determine their own future. Mistakes were made and they have been apologized for and paid for. At some point in time people whether they be Native or any other race must step up and take responsibility for their own lives. Continued attempts to blackmail and enslave others for past sins does not help them with self determination. See Africa.

while I do in fact agree with you and think that things cannot go on as they have and I subscribe to the protestant work ethic as well. what i am afraid of is handing over money and control to the son of this guy...

I played lacrosse with the son of a local chief back in the day. Kid drove a brand new mustang, folks lived in a nice house with all the fancy shit. Boy was tight with the white kids in school, obviously had money. Nobody else on the reserve had sweet fuck all. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how crooked things are on many reserves.


you have to figure that the feds need a partner to "fix" things with and its likely to be this guy as they are likely the ones who make up the national assembly of chiefs.


What has Teresa Spence accomplished in real terms? What "problem" has she addressed? What solutions has she offered to her perceived problems? She hasn't said anything specific other than a "demand" to meet with the PM. Give your head a shake man. She is a con artist who has been caught with her hand in the taxpayers pocket. If she was the Mayor of your hometown she would be charged with fraud.


you know how History works, she will likely be heralded as a native Joan of Arc, especially if a great big unracist spotlight is brought to bear on the people who make up the present native official leadership...

BTW "from each according to his ability to each according to his need" is a quote you should know with your socialist leanings. It comes from Karl Marx in Das Kapital. Clarence Louie did indeed tell his membership that they had to work or go. Some may have left but the majority stayed and are learning trades and other marketable skills. It can be done, it should be done and at some point it will be done.

Karl Marx!!! careful how you throw that name around, some people might see your name and his in the same post and think you joined the Communist Party of Canada.

As for the OIB, I know that Clarence has done a great job and is a great guy and is a pretty good hockey player or was before he became the conservative's prototype chief, but he's had the benefit of having land in one of the most expensive and hottest growing parts of the country, and i am sure he would be the first to say so. He's got jobs to give his people, he has resources to pay for private treatment and counseling and he is his people are not dependent on the DIA for salvation..

...unlike the rock farmers on stony plain.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Listercat » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:11 pm

So if you can't make a living on your "farm" you go elsewhere and look for gainful employment. "Who is John Galt"?
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:21 pm

My ancestors gave up being stone age hunter gatherers a thousand years ago. Time for the Indians to do like wise.

Places like Attawapiskat are not viable without a welfare society supporting them. The community past time is begging for the next handout and even when it arrives, they are too lazy to open the cardboard box it came in.

From a year ago. Nice toque Ms. Spence.

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Re: Idler Some More

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:52 pm

Listercat wrote:So if you can't make a living on your "farm" you go elsewhere and look for gainful employment. "Who is John Galt"?

I guess so, but if all the rock farmers in all the land decide to seek their fortune where the streets are paved with gold... they'll all end up in London... or maybe westbank... except they ain't taking any settlers there...
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:53 pm

Topper wrote:

Shit I'd go on a hunger strike just avoid having to go back there... what a bleak hole..
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:26 pm

Hey lister once upon a time you had to let people assimilate.

Isn't that what happened with the Blackmores ? You guys are all fairly tight these days ..... no .... ? :lol:
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Listercat » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:34 pm

It would be interesting to interview the man who indicated he was going to leave with his family. Where are they now and how are they getting on with life? The segment just paints a clearer picture of how mismanagement and blackmail has become the order of the day. Start construction of 6 homes before the proper financial arrangements are made with the organization who provides funding. If you or I did that without making arrangements with our banker we would be told, sorry can't help you until all the the various documentation etc is in place. She gambled that they would not say no and would just go along. She lost or rather the people she represents lost.

Topper is right. If a community cannot support itself without taxpayer funding its existence it should be closed down. Many an old mining town or forestry town has disappeared when the economic impetus that supported it died.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Listercat » Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:41 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Hey lister once upon a time you had to let people assimilate.

Isn't that what happened with the Blackmores ? You guys are all fairly tight these days ..... no .... ? :lol:


Sorry Blob but they did not assimilate. They have their own "townsite" and most of the land is owned by the Church ( Mr Jeffs) The difference with the B's is that up until recently they worked. This is a separate issue that can be discussed on another day.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:55 pm

Listercat wrote:It would be interesting to interview the man who indicated he was going to leave with his family. Where are they now and how are they getting on with life?

He reminds me of one of our employees. He saw no future for himself or his family living on the reserve, moved to town, he works part time with us, his wife got a good job in Vancouver, so they moved the family. The welfare state and the alcoholism and drug problems that go with it are things he wants himself and his family to be far away from. He's a great guy and a hard worker and even though he lives nowhere near the reserve in northern BC, he still counts for our disgusting band member quota.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Strangelove » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:53 pm

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/08/idle-no-more-is-a-righteous-struggle-against-land-hungry-colons-iranian-state-tv/

“Not only do Canada’s natives empower all Canadians against the one percent, they also help us understand Canada’s actions in Palestine and Iran, countries whose people love Canada and rout for our natives, whose struggle against the imperial order is their struggle too,” reads an editorial by Eric Walberg, a Canadian correspondent for Press TV, Iran’s English-language broadcaster.

... Canada's natives fought for their land, but were overwhelmed by the wily and land-hungry colons, and today represent only three percent of Canada's population living for the most part short, bleak lives in dire poverty on the dregs of land allotted them by the victors.


Sounds like Iran would like to supply arms to their brothers-in-arms here in Canada!

Cowboys Colons and Indians Part Deux. :shock:
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:08 pm

Strangelove wrote:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/08/idle-no-more-is-a-righteous-struggle-against-land-hungry-colons-iranian-state-tv/

“Not only do Canada’s natives empower all Canadians against the one percent, they also help us understand Canada’s actions in Palestine and Iran, countries whose people love Canada and rout for our natives, whose struggle against the imperial order is their struggle too,” reads an editorial by Eric Walberg, a Canadian correspondent for Press TV, Iran’s English-language broadcaster.

... Canada's natives fought for their land, but were overwhelmed by the wily and land-hungry colons, and today represent only three percent of Canada's population living for the most part short, bleak lives in dire poverty on the dregs of land allotted them by the victors.


Sounds like Iran would like to supply arms to their brothers-in-arms here in Canada!

Cowboys Colons and Indians Part Deux. :shock:

A colonoscopy would see right through that asshole.
Last edited by Topper on Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:39 pm

Strangelove wrote:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/08/idle-no-more-is-a-righteous-struggle-against-land-hungry-colons-iranian-state-tv/

“Not only do Canada’s natives empower all Canadians against the one percent, they also help us understand Canada’s actions in Palestine and Iran, countries whose people love Canada and rout for our natives, whose struggle against the imperial order is their struggle too,” reads an editorial by Eric Walberg, a Canadian correspondent for Press TV, Iran’s English-language broadcaster.

... Canada's natives fought for their land, but were overwhelmed by the wily and land-hungry colons, and today represent only three percent of Canada's population living for the most part short, bleak lives in dire poverty on the dregs of land allotted them by the victors.


Sounds like Iran would like to supply arms to their brothers-in-arms here in Canada!

Cowboys Colons and Indians Part Deux. :shock:


wonder if they will bother to open the boxes...
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