Idler Some More

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Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:57 am

Or, Preserve Our Welfare State.

What the hell are the drum beating injuns up to?

The government puts together legislation the Chieves have been asking for and the little Indians go on the warpath.

What is wrong with easing restrictions to allow Bands to lease reserve land to non-Band entities? It will allow Bands to lease out their land and generate income. It is something the Chieves have been asking for.

Look at the Oosoyos Band and their economic development. They have formed joint ventures with non Band entities and developed their reserve lands and now have an award winning winery, a resort development and an industrial park. The Band on the north shore of Burrard inlet has been making money from leasing it's land for decades.

The change in legislation will make it easier for other bands to lease their lands as well by cutting out federal red tape. It gives the Bands more control over the Reserve lands.

The other part of the legislation being protested is that it would allow individual title to band members of reserve land. Currently the reserve land is held as a common title. Individual band members are allocated lots and houses but have no ownership. They have no stake in the house, no pride of ownership and it shows. They also have no equity in the land or house that they could mortgage for improvements or other projects.

Hey folks, the welfare system that has supported the Indians for over a century has not worked. Why are you trying so desperately to preserve it?

Because you want to remain idlers.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/01/03/peter-foster-misguided-hunger-strike-is-manufacturing-dissent/

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/02/john-ivison-simplistic-arguments-from-theresa-spence-idle-no-more-could-have-tragic-consequences-for-natives/
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Listercat » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:16 am

Good topic. Spence has no more "right" to demand an audience with the PM than any other citizen. She has bypassed her own duly elected representatives to garner sympathy for herself and deflect the attention away from the fact that she and her cohorts at Attawapiskat have mismanaged some $90 million. Look at the financial statements for the Band FFS people and decide for yourselves. The weeping,whining, wimps of the media refuse to look at the cause, instead focusing on the effect.Spence has attacked the mining company ( De Beers) effectively accusing them of stealing diamonds from her land. This is the same company that provided the Band with mobile homes for housing and attempted to put in the water and sewer services for them free of charge. They were run off by Spence and the Band Council. I can't remember the name of the village that is in close proximity to Attawapiskat, but it has almost twice the population and its annual operating budget is about $8 million. That alone speaks volumes about the "management" of Spence and her cronies.

Osoyoos is a model that all should follow although geography certainly helps. Westbank is another. There are many more. I dealt with many Bands during my banking days and have seen the good , the bad and the ugly. The system that was in place is broken. We have enabled "idleness". At some point this has to change simply because the economics are not feasible. Who is going to pay for it??
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby ukcanuck » Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:59 pm

Listercat wrote:Good topic. Spence has no more "right" to demand an audience with the PM than any other citizen.

The woman has been on a hunger strike for some 25 days, and Canada is looking pretty bad internationally... You don't think its Harpers job to meet her?

.Spence has attacked the mining company ( De Beers) effectively accusing them of stealing diamonds from her land. This is the same company that provided the Band with mobile homes for housing and attempted to put in the water and sewer services for them free of charge.

Admittedly I am uninformed on the details, but it strikes me that mining companies ...strike that, No company does nice things for free...

If its diamonds coming out and mobile homes going in...seems like a rip to me.



Osoyoos is a model that all should follow although geography certainly helps. Westbank is another.


my family lives in the OK . And while some people have made out like bandits, it hasn't been a payday for everyone...
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:27 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Listercat wrote:Good topic. Spence has no more "right" to demand an audience with the PM than any other citizen.

The woman has been on a hunger strike for some 25 days, and Canada is looking pretty bad internationally... You don't think its Harpers job to meet her?

Does Harper looking bad on the international stage give her any greater right than any other community leader in Canada?

The cabinet Minister responsible for Indian affairs offered, before Christmas, to meet with Spence but she has rebuffed him insisting she is the leader of a sovereign nation and will only meet with the leader of a sovereign Canada. How her sovereign nation exists within a sovereign Canada she hasn't explained, but if she is the leader of a sovereign nation, the bulk of her complaint regards the lack of foreign aid.

What the woman is, is an embarrassment to Indians. She is the personification of welfare system leach that the AFN is moving away from.

ukcanuck wrote:
.Spence has attacked the mining company ( De Beers) effectively accusing them of stealing diamonds from her land. This is the same company that provided the Band with mobile homes for housing and attempted to put in the water and sewer services for them free of charge.

Admittedly I am uninformed on the details, but it strikes me that mining companies ...strike that, No company does nice things for free...

If its diamonds coming out and mobile homes going in...seems like a rip to me.

From the reference I posted above, try to keep up.
De Beers is investing $1-billion in the Victor mine near Attawapiskat. It agreed to pay the band about $30-million over the 12-year life span of the mine. A further $325-million in contracts has been funnelled through companies owned by the band, to supply catering, helicopters, dynamite and the like. One wonders how Attawapiskat Resources Inc. has only made profits of $100,000 on that level of revenue, but that’s for another day.


ukcanuck wrote:
Osoyoos is a model that all should follow although geography certainly helps. Westbank is another.


my family lives in the OK . And while some people have made out like bandits, it hasn't been a payday for everyone...

So on par with every other community in the country.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:04 pm

Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby ukcanuck » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:08 pm


You crack me up Topper, Bannock anyone?
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Arachnid » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:56 pm

Topper wrote:Or, Preserve Our Welfare State.

What the hell are the drum beating injuns up to?

The government puts together legislation the Chieves have been asking for and the little Indians go on the warpath.

What is wrong with easing restrictions to allow Bands to lease reserve land to non-Band entities? It will allow Bands to lease out their land and generate income. It is something the Chieves have been asking for.

Look at the Oosoyos Band and their economic development. They have formed joint ventures with non Band entities and developed their reserve lands and now have an award winning winery, a resort development and an industrial park. The Band on the north shore of Burrard inlet has been making money from leasing it's land for decades.

The change in legislation will make it easier for other bands to lease their lands as well by cutting out federal red tape. It gives the Bands more control over the Reserve lands.

The other part of the legislation being protested is that it would allow individual title to band members of reserve land. Currently the reserve land is held as a common title. Individual band members are allocated lots and houses but have no ownership. They have no stake in the house, no pride of ownership and it shows. They also have no equity in the land or house that they could mortgage for improvements or other projects.

Hey folks, the welfare system that has supported the Indians for over a century has not worked. Why are you trying so desperately to preserve it?

Because you want to remain idlers.

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2013/01/03/peter-foster-misguided-hunger-strike-is-manufacturing-dissent/

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/01/02/john-ivison-simplistic-arguments-from-theresa-spence-idle-no-more-could-have-tragic-consequences-for-natives/


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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Sat Jan 05, 2013 6:50 am

Arachnid wrote:Blame the rape victim

There's no room on that bus.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Lancer » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:08 pm

Seems to me her 'hunger strike' is nothing more than a smoke screen to turn people's attention away from allegations she and some other at the reservation have been robbing their fellow cree blind. This all started when her shenanigans came out in the media. The only embarassment in this whole thing is her.

I'm all for aboriginal self-government and giving them leeway to do what they will with the land, but don't come inviting bleeding heart lefty reporters afterwards to cry poor and hard done-by when the band council acts like a banana republic. Dirty, starving kids get thrown in front of cameras, the columnists cry crocodile tears, the government opens its wallets yet again, and the chiefs go laughing all the way to an offshore account. Wash-rinse-repeat.

The only people idle around here are the rank and file first nations folk who would rather sit on a bridge and cry for more money from the Crown than tackle their own irresponsible, tyrannical and unaccoutable band leadership. There are some bright examples of how good the reserves could be, but there are a lot that just make you shake your head.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Arachnid » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:39 pm

Topper wrote:
Arachnid wrote:Blame the rape victim

There's no room on that bus.


'Und the savages will rise up and will kill the Dumas infidels'.....I think it says that in all the holy books 8-)
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Meds » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:57 am

ukcanuck wrote:The woman has been on a hunger strike for some 25 days, and Canada is looking pretty bad internationally... You don't think its Harpers job to meet her?



So now the PM and federal government should acquiesce to, and take responsibility for, an individual who is stupid enough to deny her body the fuel it needs to survive in order to make a public statement? That's like letting your child have whatever they want to keep them from slamming their head against a hard surface when they can't have their way.

No, you're right, it's the governments fault, they should be giving in to lunatics whenever said lunatics exercise their rights as individuals to refuse what is right there for them to have......in this case food.

Better still is that our government will then spend the money via health care to help her recover once she starves herself to the point where her digestive system shuts down and she is too weak to function.

But yeah, it's Harper's job to meet with her and demonstrate to the world that our government will kowtow to anyone if they make enough of a noise and demonstrate a lack of common sense.

It's also the responsibility of teachers to raise everyone's children and make sure they pass everything regardless of effort put in or grade achieved. It is the responsibility of doctors to ensure a person takes their prescribed meds at home. It is the job of the NRA to make sure nobody misuses a gun. It is the responsibility of the healthcare system to care for the people who choose to live a lifestyle that results in organ failure and poor health. A million left wing liberal socialists like that at the bottom of the sea would be a good start.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Meds » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:06 am

Just read the national post link......so she's not dumb enough to starve herself. She's just detoxing.....lmao.

And duh, uk? When any corporation or government is willing to build a community with amenities for a group of people in order to get a resource, generally they are offering something better than what the community already has. So the question is, why don't they have anything better than mobile homes and why don't they have sewer and water treatment?

My question to uk is why you seem to always take the side of those who feel "entitled" to free handouts or more than everyone else already gets......
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:29 am

Meds wrote:Just read the national post link......so she's not dumb enough to starve herself. She's just detoxing.....lmao.

And duh, uk? When any corporation or government is willing to build a community with amenities for a group of people in order to get a resource, generally they are offering something better than what the community already has. So the question is, why don't they have anything better than mobile homes and why don't they have sewer and water treatment?

My question to uk is why you seem to always take the side of those who feel "entitled" to free handouts or more than everyone else already gets......

yeah wanted to respond to that in the strike thread just haven't had time to give it justice. To me wealth comes from the bottom up, its created by the blood sweat and tears of the people. Money represents that work and those that have amassed the most of it seem to think that they are the ones that did the work. They didn't. they are smart at finding ways to get more of it, and the system allows money to make more of it, but the fact remains that without the people who work in the factories, who put in the time on the clock, who buy and consume the goods and the services. The rich would be choking on their cake. so to me its the other way round as far a a sense of entitlement goes. There is a reason why the farmer is smart to treat his plow horse like one of the family.

As for this issue, the plight of the aboriginal in the face of colonialism is well documented and while it maybe that this particular woman has issues about credibility. the movement itself is not a tempest in a tea cup. there are some significant wrongs that need to be righted and their is a legacy over residential schools and imposed western culture including the division between hereditary chiefs and the elected ones who could be seen as an "uncle tom" set up.
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby Topper » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:50 am

Her books were not a mess, because she didn't keep any books.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/07/pol-attawapiskat-audit-monday.html
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Re: Idler Some More

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:27 am

Topper wrote:Her books were not a mess, because she didn't keep any books.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/07/pol-attawapiskat-audit-monday.html

I think it might have been you or maybe Blob recounting stories abut working with natives up north, I spent a summer in a logging camp during my uni days, right in the middle of nowhere, 4 hours by rail north west of Ft ST James. The camp being in land claims or at least the cut block was, had natives working as agreed to by canfor and they by and large were useless. Basic concepts like a work day were so foreign it was almost laughable. These people who less than a generation ago were working trap lines for subsistence don't know what factory time is. How can we expect them to think and act like we want them too?
I suppose the question is fault and responsibility and who owns it.

I like Harper being a westerner and a hockey fan and all, but it is his responsibility when a chief goes on a hunger strike no matter how misguided or ridiculous the claims may be...
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