Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Topper » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:37 am

Topper wrote:The window on the buyout will be interesting.

Last time I wanted Linden's $1mil/yr deal bought out and it probably should have been.

Ballard is obvious, but so too in Luongo if the Aqualung family can afford that one. The Burrows deal looks like an albatross as well.

I just compiled this from CapGeek. Note this is only the NHL roster and does not take into account minor league salaries.

Code: Select all
Team   Cap   Players   To re-sign
isles   31.5   12   
blues   32.1   12   pietrangelo
devils   32.4   13   
yotes   32.9   10   larsson
jets   33.2   9   
ducks   33.8   12   getzlaf, perry
stars   34.1   14   
sens   39.1   13   
leaves   41.5   13   lupul, gunnersson
panthers   41.9   13   
bjs   42.9   14   goal
caps   44.8   12   
wings   45.1   15   howard filppula
preds   45.4   13   
flames   47.8   14   Al Jolson, backlund
oilers   48.5   14   
avs   49.3   19   hejduk
kings   49.4   13   
sabres   49.6   14   CoHo (lol)
canes   50.7   15   
wild   51.1   16   
rags   51.8   16   
pens   52.6   15   
sharks   54.3   14   
canucks   55.4   13   
hawks   57.2   17   
bruins   57.4   16   horton
flyers   57.5   16   
bolts   57.5   15   
habs   60.1   16   

A thank you from Brad Ziemer for doing his leg work would be appreciated.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/vancouver-canucks/Vancouver+Canucks+twist+force+tough/7767622/story.html
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 4266
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Fred » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:12 pm

If the new Cap is $60 million does this lessen the value of Luongo. Most will know there is now a need more than ever for the 'Nucks to move him ?
cheers
Fred
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:41 pm

I have a feeling the cap may inch to 62 or 63 million for 13-14. The players have come down from 67 to 65 while the league is holding at 60 atm. If it gets to 62.5 or 63 it isn't much different than last season, so I don't think too many teams will be in financial hell, though the Wild will be close.

With the idea of two amnesty buyouts per team now more of a reality it could reall loosen up the trade market in the league and help some of the teams out of their financial pickle and in turn assist Vancouver in moving Luongo .
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2767
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby dbr » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:11 pm

Fred wrote:If the new Cap is $60 million does this lessen the value of Luongo. Most will know there is now a need more than ever for the 'Nucks to move him ?


The Canucks have been in more or less the same position since they re-signed Schneider, both goalies can't remain Canucks forever and with Edler up for a new deal there is a real pinch come 7/1/2013.

That doesn't change whether the cap is $60m or $65m, (although two compliance buy outs mean the Canucks could in fact carry both goaltenders if they really want to).

I've argued all along that a lower cap ceiling may in fact improve Roberto Luongo's trade value.. a lower cap means more teams willing to spend to the ceiling and less cap space to go around and more value to these cap circumventing deals.
dbr
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2279
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:37 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Fred » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:19 pm

Yeah I just heard on team 1040 they're now saying 2 buy outs, is this some thing new ? I thought it was to be limited to 1 player only. The problem with the lower teams is Luongo holds the NTC in his back pocket and does he want to go to a no hope team
cheers
Fred
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Strangelove » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:58 pm

As I stated a coupla pages ago, I believe a lower cap would increase Louie's trade value.

I agree with those speculating it ends up being more like a $62 - $63mil cap.

As far as a response to my previous post: Freddy, private message received! :thumbs:

LOL, come on it's just a game and you're just being a poor sport good buddy! :D

Hey, I'll ask the Big Guy to help you find a healthy way to dispel all that pent-up anger, K? :wink:

Strangelove: The Peoples Poster
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 5909
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:25 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Detroit was the BEST drafting team from about 89 - 2006 bar none and it isn't even close.

Fred wrote:I'm not trying to make light of the players that Detroit picked up. Clearly great players. But the scouting has praise heaped upon it when IMO it shouldn't. Their selection of players chosen with high picks clearly shows their inability to make good choices. .

Blob Mckenzie wrote:Who gives a rats ass what round the players were taken in ? The fact of the matter is my point stands. Detroit was far and away the best drafting team from the late 80's until 5 years ago. They have drafted way more quality NHL players than any team during that time period.

Fred wrote:No Blob that's not the concept at all. The reason that by FAR the most players in the draft come form the first round is valid...I hope you're not suggesting other wise. You keep screwing up first round picks and guess what it doesn't look good on your resume and after all that's what we're debating here, this magical Detroit scouting machine.

Blob Mckenzie wrote:dbr provided a comprehensive list of players who were picked by the Wings in the first few rounds. They were still better at drafting than most if not all teams in the early rounds. When you add in all the gems from the later rounds they blow everybody away. Not sure why you have such a difficult time trying to wrap your head round this. I guess you hadn't noticed all the HOFers and the cups.

Fred wrote:Bobby that was when Jesus was a boy. TO has a great Stanley Cup record as well ....so they're good ??

Any way you're not going to see it through my eyes and I miss your point. Mexican stand off

Blob Mckenzie wrote:The fact you bring up TO and their cups in the 6 team league to this thread is fairly telling. I knew I smelled shit somewhere......looks like Fred is talking out of his ass again.


Yup.

Fred "what we're debating here" is the drafting record of the Wings from 1989 to 2006.

Blobby has been very clear on that and you have clearly disagreed.

I say the Wings have been at least average over that time frame in the 1st round

(considering their usual position in the bottom-half of the 1st round).

I say the Wings have been fantastic over that time frame in the 2nd round PERIOD.

And of course we all agree they have been 2nd-to-none over that time frame in the lower rounds.

Let's take a closer look, shall we?

Let's....

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/prospects/f/draft_success.htm

Question: How Many NHL Draft Picks Make it to the NHL?

Over 200 players are selected at every NHL draft. How many of them go on to have NHL careers? What are the prospects for a player selected in the first round of the NHL Draft compared to later rounds?

Answer: To properly evaluate a draft, you need a few year's distance from it. So let's look at the 1990s.
To define whether a player "makes it," let's set the threshold at 200 NHL games. We'll call them "career players."

Between 1990 and 1999, there were 2,600 names called at the NHL Entry Draft.

As of 2007, 494 of those players have appeared in at least 200 NHL games. That's a success rate of 19 percent.

But of course, not all draft picks are created equal. The guys picked in the first round are a cut above the rest:

Success rate of first-round draft picks.

Based on the 1990s sample, a first-round draft pick has a 63 percent chance of being a career player.


Beyond the first round.

This is where the NHL dream begins to fade in a hurry:

From 1990 to 1999, about one-quarter of the players selected in the second round turned into NHL career players.

Those drafted in the third round and beyond are really up against it.

From over 2,000 players selected in the third round and beyond during 1990s, just 261 made it as NHL career players.

That's about 12 percent.


I'm going to go by the criteria above because I believe it is sound criteria indeed.

If you feel otherwise, please feel free to present your own criteria, but remember "we're debating" 1989 - 2006.

Moving right along...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Re ... raft_picks

1989 – 2006 First Round Picks:

1989 Mike Sillinger (11th) 1049 regular season games + 43 playoff games
1990 Keith Primeau (3rd) 909 + 128
1991 Martin Lapointe (19th) 991 + 108
1992 Curtis Bowen (22nd) 0 + 0
1993 Anders Eriksson (22nd) 572 + 36
1994 Yan Golubovsky (23rd) 56 + 0
1995 Maxim Kuznetsov (26th) 136 + 0
1996 Jesse Wallin (26th) 49 + 0
1997 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
1998 Jiri Fischer (25th) 305 + 38
1999 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2000 Niklas Kronwall (29th) 467 + 79 *still playing
2001 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2002 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2003 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2004 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2005 Jakub Kindl (19th) 106 + 0 *still playing
2006 NO FIRST ROUND PICK

If young Kindl does reach the 200 game threshold:

7 career NHLers out of 11 = 64% of Wing 1st round picks equate to “career players”.

If young Kindl does NOT reach the 200 game threshold:

6 career NHLers out of 11 = 55% of Wing 1st round picks equate to “career players”.

Compare those numbers with “63% chance of a 1st round pick becoming a career player”

… and consider the fact they accomplished this despite mostly LATE 1st round picks.

Now consider the fact almost all of the guys who made it were work horses.

I mean LOOK at those guys!

That's pretty solid 1st-round drafting...


1989 – 2006 Second Round Picks:

1989 Bob Boughner (32nd) 630 + 65
1990 NO SECOND ROUND PICK
1991 Jamie Pushor (32nd) 521 + 14
1992 Darren McCarty (46th) 758 + 174
1993 John Coleman (48th) 0 + )
1994 Mathieu Dandenault (49th) 868 + 83
1995 Philippe Audette (52nd) 4 + 0
1996 Aren Miller (52nd) 0 + 0
1997 Yuri Butsayev (49th) 99 + 0
1998 Ryan Barnes (55th) 2 + 0
1998 Tomas Valtanen (56th) 0 + 0
1999 NO SECOND ROUND PICK
2000 Tomas Kopecky (38th) 418 + 37
2001 Igor Grigorenko (62nd) 0 + 0
2002 Jiri Hudler (58th) 409 + 60 *still playing
2002 Tomas Fleischmann (63rd) 387 + 29 *still playing
2003 Jimmy Howard (64th) 192 + 28 *still playing
2004 NO SECOND ROUND PICK
2005 Justin Abdelkader (42nd) 208 + 37
2006 Cory Emmerton (41st) 73 + 5 *still playing
2006 Shawn Matthias (47th) 205 + 7 *still playing
2006 Dick Axelsson (62nd) 0 + 0

I think it’s fair to assume young Emmerton will reach the 200 game threshold.

11 career NHLers out of 19 = 58% of Wing 2nd round picks equate to “career players”

…. FAR exceeding the average of 25%.

If you choose to believe Emmerton will NOT reach the 200 game threshold Wings are still at 53% = stellar!

It all adds up to this:

The Red Wings have done a solid job of drafting in the 1st round, given position, in Blob’s stated timeframe.

The Red Wings have done a fantastic job of drafting in the 2nd round in Blob’s stated timeframe.

And of course we all agree the Wings have been lights-out beyond the 2nd round in Blob’s stated timeframe.

Speaking of lights-out Fred.... thanks for coming out. :mex:


LOL ! I just read this now. That's some damn good detective work for a doctor. Lights out is about right. :lol:
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2767
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:37 pm

I just watched a movie where the young Indian bucks led a herd of buffalo off the cliff. I believe they were Sioux but I'm not certain.
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2767
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Strangelove » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:46 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:LOL ! I just read this now. That's some damn good detective work for a doctor. Lights out is about right. :lol:


Takes a few bucks to buffalo a troll. :wink:

Strangelove: The Peoples Poster
User avatar
Strangelove
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 5909
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:47 pm

Strangelove wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:LOL ! I just read this now. That's some damn good detective work for a doctor. Lights out is about right. :lol:


Takes a few bucks to buffalo a troll. :wink:


And a good shaman for sure.
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2767
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:22 pm

RoyalDude wrote:And I fully expect Edmonton to end up with one of those top 6 players and with how the stars have been aligning for them lately, I expect them to walk out of the draft with one of the consensus top 4 in McKinnon, Jones, Barkov, Drouin.


The stars have been aligning for them ? They have been the WORST team in the NHL since Tambelinni took over. Yeah the Stars have aligned for them so much that they were rewarded for being the shittiest franchise in the league. They can barely make the playoffs in the AHL despite having 1/3of their NHL players play for Oklahoma City.

Still have a black hole at centre ice behind the Nuge, AHL goaltending, no size up front and more holes on their defence than Manuel Noreiga has in his grill.
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2767
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Vader » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:56 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
The stars have been aligning for them ? They have been the WORST team in the NHL since Tambelinni took over. Yeah the Stars have aligned for them so much that they were rewarded for being the shittiest franchise in the league. They can barely make the playoffs in the AHL despite having 1/3of their NHL players play for Oklahoma City.

Still have a black hole at centre ice behind the Nuge, AHL goaltending, no size up front and more holes on their defence than Manuel Noreiga has in his grill.


The problem with the "tank and draft high" theory is that you always draft the best player available. And that makes sense. But drafting the best player doesn't always entail getting the pieces or the mix you actually need. That's what's going on in Edmonton. They are short several different pieces and they are overloaded with one thing - good young offensive forwards, Let's see if they have the nuts to move an Eberle, as an example, for a different piece of the puzzle and let's see if they are sharp enough to get good value at the same time. At any rate, I don't think they are a playoff team yet.
Vader
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:37 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby RoyalDude » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:13 am

Vader wrote:The problem with the "tank and draft high" theory is that you always draft the best player available. And that makes sense. But drafting the best player doesn't always entail getting the pieces or the mix you actually need. That's what's going on in Edmonton. They are short several different pieces and they are overloaded with one thing - good young offensive forwards, Let's see if they have the nuts to move an Eberle, as an example, for a different piece of the puzzle and let's see if they are sharp enough to get good value at the same time. At any rate, I don't think they are a playoff team yet.


It doesn't work all the time but it worked for Pittsburgh - Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury and Chicago - Toews, Kane, Seabrook.

All Tambellini has to do is move some pieces to fix their week spots, I do like the Fistric trade. Gives them a giant crease clearing presence.

If I'm Tambellini I'm shopping Yakupov. No way in hell I'm trading Eberle. I honestly think the Oilers blew it on the recent draft, should have gone with one of the young stud D-men like Reilly, Reinhart or Murray.
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate
User avatar
RoyalDude
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 3820
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Vader » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:28 am

RoyalDude wrote:It doesn't work all the time but it worked for Pittsburgh - Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury and Chicago - Toews, Kane, Seabrook.


Yeah, Chicago came up with some pieces in Toews and Kane but they won a cup because they found Byfuglien in the 8th round (at the buffet table), Keith late in the 2nd, Brouwer in the 7th, Bolland, Hjalmarson, after the first round, stole Versteeg and Sharp from other organizations, found Niemi as a free agent. Hell, even Seabrook was a mid first rounder...I mean they found so many gems they could afford to fuck up and draft Barker where they did!

Come to think of it, they fucked up a tonne of recent first rounders: Skille, Barker, Babchuk, Vorbiev, Yakubov, Beach.

Pittsburgh - They were fortunate to get two generational talents back-to-back, and some lottery luck to draft 1st overall in 2005

Point is you don't need to draft high...you need to draft well
Vader
CC 2nd Team All-Star
 
Posts: 248
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:37 pm

Re: Luongo will Waive NTC If Asked To

Postby Jovocop » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:56 am

Vader wrote:
RoyalDude wrote:It doesn't work all the time but it worked for Pittsburgh - Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Fleury and Chicago - Toews, Kane, Seabrook.


Yeah, Chicago came up with some pieces in Toews and Kane but they won a cup because they found Byfuglien in the 8th round (at the buffet table), Keith late in the 2nd, Brouwer in the 7th, Bolland, Hjalmarson, after the first round, stole Versteeg and Sharp from other organizations, found Niemi as a free agent. Hell, even Seabrook was a mid first rounder...I mean they found so many gems they could afford to fuck up and draft Barker where they did!

Come to think of it, they fucked up a tonne of recent first rounders: Skille, Barker, Babchuk, Vorbiev, Yakubov, Beach.

Pittsburgh - They were fortunate to get two generational talents back-to-back, and some lottery luck to draft 1st overall in 2005

Point is you don't need to draft high...you need to draft well


The same could be said for the Canucks. The Sedins are the highest first rounders for almost the last two decades. They drafted Hansen in the 9th round. Edler and Bieksa were drafted in the 3rd and 5th round. With Kesler being a mid first rounder and Schneider being a late first rounder, the two are great picks. The Canucks literally stole Ehrhoff and Luongo from other organizations. Also, they found Burrows from nowhere. Yes, the Canucks did screw up a lot of first rounders but they did not have high first round picks that the Hawks, the Penguins or the Oilers that constantly had.

Having high first rounders for years is one of the eaiset ways to draft well.
User avatar
Jovocop
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1569
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:18 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ClamRussel, Google Adsense [Bot], rats19 and 5 guests