There will be a strike

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:39 pm

okcanuck wrote:Meds
You really dont think that a more reasonable offer by the owners wouldn't have shortened this dispute? Of course it would have. If they came in with a more realistic offer, of say 52-48, and worked to 50-50 which is where they're at now , Feur wouldn't have the same solidarity of the players.

Bullshit, it wasn't until the players sat down without their donald that the finally came up with something new. Prior to that, it had been a rewording of the August proposal with guaranteed annual wage hikes. It was in those meeting that they finally came on board that linkage was a way of life and would remain so.

Even when the players made a big deal of their 50/50 offer back in November, it actually only got down to 53% the way they worked their make whole and that offer still had a guaranteed annual increase. Their 50/50 was a mirror so thin you could blow smoke through.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
 
Posts: 5014
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:23 am

....So back to the lockout,

It seems an agreement is inching ever closer.

50/50 split of HRR whatever that means in terms of real dollars
60 - 65 million dollar cap next year
2 compliance buyouts not counted in the cap but does count against players share of HRR
no mention so far of length of CBA term
No mention so far if contract max length
No details on how pensions are affected
20 team playoff for this year- no mention how that works (best of 5 again?)

Seems like the cliff is a week away....
What am I missing?
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:54 am

20 teams making the playoffs. Fucking brilliant. Why not go right to 24 teams or even 28 ?

I can't help but think it's the Alberta teams and the Leafs really pushing for this. 16 teams is fine....why can't they leave it the fuck alone ? The NHL is turning into the CFL with all the fucking gimmicks and bs.
Tell me how my ass tastes.
User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3139
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:58 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:20 teams making the playoffs. Fucking brilliant. Why not go right to 24 teams or even 28 ?

I can't help but think it's the Alberta teams and the Leafs really pushing for this. 16 teams is fine....why can't they leave it the fuck alone ? The NHL is turning into the CFL with all the fucking gimmicks and bs.

Oh this CBA proposal has Burke/Bell/Rodgers written all over it.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
 
Posts: 5014
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Reefer2 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:01 am

okcanuck wrote:Meds
You really dont think that a more reasonable offer by the owners wouldn't have shortened this dispute? Of course it would have. If they came in with a more realistic offer, of say 52-48, and worked to 50-50 which is where they're at now , Feur wouldn't have the same solidarity of the players.


No - these groups do not negotiate this way.

Both side knew there was going to be a strike and both sides also plan for the entire season to be lost. Bettman/Fehr don't have the same skin in the game as the players/owners which is why they lead the negotiations. When I negotiate for the company I work with I never have the client in the room, I go back to them and ask the questions and provide pro/con of each proposal and they can think without the added pressure of being in the room to make a snap decision.

Last months's little meeting with players/owners was a charade, nothing more and nothing less. It may have started some traction but that is about it. The owners did count on the players buckling earlier and I don't think they anticipated Fehr's antics either.

I think this whole strike/lock out (call it what ever is a joke) all they are doing is giving the fans the middle finger.
User avatar
Reefer2
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:47 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby BurningBeard » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:57 am

Topper wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:20 teams making the playoffs. Fucking brilliant. Why not go right to 24 teams or even 28 ?

I can't help but think it's the Alberta teams and the Leafs really pushing for this. 16 teams is fine....why can't they leave it the fuck alone ? The NHL is turning into the CFL with all the fucking gimmicks and bs.

Oh this CBA proposal has Burke/Bell/Rodgers written all over it.


Yeah, I do not like the idea of a 20 team playoff format at all. That should only be considered if the league actually expands. Supposedly the Flames are loosing money even though they sell out nearly every game, so they must be all over this one. What a sad state of affairs.
Every time I look out my window, same three dogs looking back at me.
User avatar
BurningBeard
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:02 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Meds » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:48 pm

BurningBeard wrote:
Topper wrote:
Blob Mckenzie wrote:20 teams making the playoffs. Fucking brilliant. Why not go right to 24 teams or even 28 ?

I can't help but think it's the Alberta teams and the Leafs really pushing for this. 16 teams is fine....why can't they leave it the fuck alone ? The NHL is turning into the CFL with all the fucking gimmicks and bs.

Oh this CBA proposal has Burke/Bell/Rodgers written all over it.


Yeah, I do not like the idea of a 20 team playoff format at all. That should only be considered if the league actually expands. Supposedly the Flames are loosing money even though they sell out nearly every game, so they must be all over this one. What a sad state of affairs.


How can they be losing money when they are selling out the dome?
User avatar
Meds
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3466
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby BurningBeard » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:46 pm

Meds wrote:
BurningBeard wrote:Yeah, I do not like the idea of a 20 team playoff format at all. That should only be considered if the league actually expands. Supposedly the Flames are loosing money even though they sell out nearly every game, so they must be all over this one. What a sad state of affairs.


How can they be losing money when they are selling out the dome?


That is a good question. Murray Edwards has been one of the owners with frequent input at the negotiating table. So his team's financials have come up in various articles where it's been stated the Flames have been loosing money and/or barely turning profit.

Here is one from the Montreal Gazette:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/montreal-canadiens/Hickey+proves+rich+people+different/7602720/story.html

The source is Forbes in that article, so the validity of their information is a bit up in the air, but I believe Edwards himself has also stated that the Flames are having issues turning profit.

As far as I know the Saddle Dome hasn't had many issues with selling tickets over the past 4 years, so I don't understand how they could be in such a bad position without chalking it up to gross mismanagement (as the Montreal Gazette article does) . Of course, they're frequently right up against the cap, and don't make the playoffs, but you'd think a team should be able to turn a decent profit off the regular season alone when they're filling their building.
Every time I look out my window, same three dogs looking back at me.
User avatar
BurningBeard
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:02 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Jovocop » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:52 pm

BurningBeard wrote:
Meds wrote:
BurningBeard wrote:Yeah, I do not like the idea of a 20 team playoff format at all. That should only be considered if the league actually expands. Supposedly the Flames are loosing money even though they sell out nearly every game, so they must be all over this one. What a sad state of affairs.


How can they be losing money when they are selling out the dome?


That is a good question. Murray Edwards has been one of the owners with frequent input at the negotiating table. So his team's financials have come up in various articles where it's been stated the Flames have been loosing money and/or barely turning profit.

Here is one from the Montreal Gazette:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/montreal-canadiens/Hickey+proves+rich+people+different/7602720/story.html

The source is Forbes in that article, so the validity of their information is a bit up in the air, but I believe Edwards himself has also stated that the Flames are having issues turning profit.

As far as I know the Saddle Dome hasn't had many issues with selling tickets over the past 4 years, so I don't understand how they could be in such a bad position without chalking it up to gross mismanagement (as the Montreal Gazette article does) . Of course, they're frequently right up against the cap, and don't make the playoffs, but you'd think a team should be able to turn a decent profit off the regular season alone when they're filling their building.


I heard long time ago that most of the small market teams make most of their profits during the playoffs. Of course, that rule does not apply to the Leafs. They could forever miss the playoffs but still making tons of profits... :lol:
User avatar
Jovocop
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:18 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby BurningBeard » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:04 pm

Jovocop wrote:
BurningBeard wrote:As far as I know the Saddle Dome hasn't had many issues with selling tickets over the past 4 years, so I don't understand how they could be in such a bad position without chalking it up to gross mismanagement (as the Montreal Gazette article does) . Of course, they're frequently right up against the cap, and don't make the playoffs, but you'd think a team should be able to turn a decent profit off the regular season alone when they're filling their building.


I heard long time ago that most of the small market teams make most of their profits during the playoffs. Of course, that rule does not apply to the Leafs. They could forever miss the playoffs but still making tons of profits... :lol:


They do, but there is no way in hell any team should not be able to make a profit when selling out the regular season. Otherwise, we are on the road to a 30 team playoff format.
Every time I look out my window, same three dogs looking back at me.
User avatar
BurningBeard
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:02 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:09 pm

I can't remember now who it was who tried to roast me about accusing owners for fudged accounting when it comes to reporting what HRR was for the purposes of revenue split.
Well looky here the NHL in their three hundred page proposal tried to slip in a watered down penalties for false HRR reports from the teams, not only that there would be no provision for do anything about faulty accounting in the past tense...
Tsk tsk Bettman, snake oil salesman as usual
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Thu Jan 03, 2013 6:16 pm

BurningBeard wrote:
Jovocop wrote:
BurningBeard wrote:As far as I know the Saddle Dome hasn't had many issues with selling tickets over the past 4 years, so I don't understand how they could be in such a bad position without chalking it up to gross mismanagement (as the Montreal Gazette article does) . Of course, they're frequently right up against the cap, and don't make the playoffs, but you'd think a team should be able to turn a decent profit off the regular season alone when they're filling their building.


I heard long time ago that most of the small market teams make most of their profits during the playoffs. Of course, that rule does not apply to the Leafs. They could forever miss the playoffs but still making tons of profits... :lol:


They do, but there is no way in hell any team should not be able to make a profit when selling out the regular season. Otherwise, we are on the road to a 30 team playoff format.

I have no problem with a team operating at or near the cap that does not make the playoffs not making a profit.

It means they are not getting value out of their salaries. There is an operating window between the cap floor and the cap ceiling for a reason. Many teams choose to operate with and internal cap and do so successfully. We've sat back and watch the deals dished out by the likes of the Flames to 3rd line players in the hope of them becoming 1st or 2nd line players
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
 
Posts: 5014
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: There will be a strike

Postby BurningBeard » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:00 pm

Topper wrote:I have no problem with a team operating at or near the cap that does not make the playoffs not making a profit.

It means they are not getting value out of their salaries. There is an operating window between the cap floor and the cap ceiling for a reason. Many teams choose to operate with and internal cap and do so successfully. We've sat back and watch the deals dished out by the likes of the Flames to 3rd line players in the hope of them becoming 1st or 2nd line players

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with it either, gross mismanagement should not be rewarded. It's a serious problem, but it's the team's problem, not the league's. I'm just saying, if someone in the room is suggesting a 20 team playoff format, I think I know who and why.

On a side note, the 20 game format isn't a new idea. There was an option in the 2005 CBA for the exact same thing.

http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf

Article 16, Section 16.2:

The NHLPA has consented to granting the League, either in the 2005-06 NHL Season, or, alternatively, in the 2006-07 NHL Season, the option to institute in any League Year a "Playoff Qualification Round" preliminary to the Playoffs, which will consist of one (1) round involving four (4) Clubs in each Conference, with each series in the round having a maximum of three (3) games, with the winner of each series advancing to the Playoffs.
Every time I look out my window, same three dogs looking back at me.
User avatar
BurningBeard
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:02 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:33 am

How would 20 teams be workable for the playoffs?

You need to end at 8 teams after the first round or a round number so that the semi finals have 4 teams etc.

Instead of screwing around with how many teams make the playoffs maybe they should be worried about having a season.
User avatar
Reefer2
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1079
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:47 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:07 am

Reef, the 1st round would be an earn in. The bottom eight could reduce to four and then join the other twelve.

Make it a best of three, first game in the lower rank teams barn and then two in the higher ranked teams shed in order to reduce travel and time off for the awaiting twelve teams.

The additional four teams get a guaranteed one playoff game, the rest they need to earn.

Notice that the playoff pool for the players has also been increased in the offer I read. This will help pay for it.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
 
Posts: 5014
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], dbr, Google [Bot] and 5 guests