Blob Mckenzie wrote:Detroit was the BEST drafting team from about 89 - 2006 bar none and it isn't even close.
Fred wrote:I'm not trying to make light of the players that Detroit picked up. Clearly great players. But the scouting has praise heaped upon it when IMO it shouldn't. Their selection of players chosen with high picks clearly shows their inability to make good choices. .
Blob Mckenzie wrote:Who gives a rats ass what round the players were taken in ? The fact of the matter is my point stands. Detroit was far and away the best drafting team from the late 80's until 5 years ago. They have drafted way more quality NHL players than any team during that time period.
Fred wrote:No Blob that's not the concept at all. The reason that by FAR the most players in the draft come form the first round is valid...I hope you're not suggesting other wise. You keep screwing up first round picks and guess what it doesn't look good on your resume and after all that's what we're debating here, this magical Detroit scouting machine.
Blob Mckenzie wrote:dbr provided a comprehensive list of players who were picked by the Wings in the first few rounds. They were still better at drafting than most if not all teams in the early rounds. When you add in all the gems from the later rounds they blow everybody away. Not sure why you have such a difficult time trying to wrap your head round this. I guess you hadn't noticed all the HOFers and the cups.
Fred wrote:Bobby that was when Jesus was a boy. TO has a great Stanley Cup record as well ....so they're good ??
Any way you're not going to see it through my eyes and I miss your point. Mexican stand off
Blob Mckenzie wrote:The fact you bring up TO and their cups in the 6 team league to this thread is fairly telling. I knew I smelled shit somewhere......looks like Fred is talking out of his ass again.
Fred "what we're debating here" is the drafting record of the Wings from 1989 to 2006
Blobby has been very clear on that and you have clearly disagreed.
I say the Wings have been at least average over that time frame in the 1st round
(considering their usual position in the bottom-half of the 1st round).
I say the Wings have been fantastic over that time frame in the 2nd round PERIOD.
And of course we all agree they have been 2nd-to-none over that time frame in the lower rounds.
Let's take a closer look, shall we?
Question: How Many NHL Draft Picks Make it to the NHL?
Over 200 players are selected at every NHL draft. How many of them go on to have NHL careers? What are the prospects for a player selected in the first round of the NHL Draft compared to later rounds?
Answer: To properly evaluate a draft, you need a few year's distance from it. So let's look at the 1990s.
To define whether a player "makes it," let's set the threshold at 200 NHL games. We'll call them "career players."
Between 1990 and 1999, there were 2,600 names called at the NHL Entry Draft.
As of 2007, 494 of those players have appeared in at least 200 NHL games. That's a success rate of 19 percent.
But of course, not all draft picks are created equal. The guys picked in the first round are a cut above the rest:
Success rate of first-round draft picks.
Based on the 1990s sample, a first-round draft pick has a 63 percent chance of being a career player.
Beyond the first round.
This is where the NHL dream begins to fade in a hurry:
From 1990 to 1999, about one-quarter of the players selected in the second round turned into NHL career players.
Those drafted in the third round and beyond are really up against it.
From over 2,000 players selected in the third round and beyond during 1990s, just 261 made it as NHL career players.
That's about 12 percent.
I'm going to go by the criteria above because I believe it is sound criteria indeed.
If you feel otherwise, please feel free to present your own criteria, but remember "we're debating" 1989 - 2006.
Moving right along...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Re ... raft_picks
1989 – 2006 First Round Picks:
1989 Mike Sillinger (11th) 1049 regular season games + 43 playoff games
1990 Keith Primeau (3rd) 909 + 128
1991 Martin Lapointe (19th) 991 + 108
1992 Curtis Bowen (22nd) 0 + 0
1993 Anders Eriksson (22nd) 572 + 36
1994 Yan Golubovsky (23rd) 56 + 0
1995 Maxim Kuznetsov (26th) 136 + 0
1996 Jesse Wallin (26th) 49 + 0
1997 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
1998 Jiri Fischer (25th) 305 + 38
1999 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2000 Niklas Kronwall (29th) 467 + 79 *still playing
2001 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2002 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2003 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2004 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
2005 Jakub Kindl (19th) 106 + 0 *still playing
2006 NO FIRST ROUND PICK
If young Kindl does reach the 200 game threshold:
7 career NHLers out of 11 = 64% of Wing 1st round picks equate to “career players”.
If young Kindl does NOT reach the 200 game threshold:
6 career NHLers out of 11 = 55% of Wing 1st round picks equate to “career players”.
Compare those numbers with “63% chance of a 1st round pick becoming a career player”
… and consider the fact they accomplished this despite mostly LATE 1st round picks.
Now consider the fact almost all of the guys who made it were work horses.
I mean LOOK at those guys!
That's pretty solid 1st-round drafting...
1989 – 2006 Second Round Picks:
1989 Bob Boughner (32nd) 630 + 65
1990 NO SECOND ROUND PICK
1991 Jamie Pushor (32nd) 521 + 14
1992 Darren McCarty (46th) 758 + 174
1993 John Coleman (48th) 0 + )
1994 Mathieu Dandenault (49th) 868 + 83
1995 Philippe Audette (52nd) 4 + 0
1996 Aren Miller (52nd) 0 + 0
1997 Yuri Butsayev (49th) 99 + 0
1998 Ryan Barnes (55th) 2 + 0
1998 Tomas Valtanen (56th) 0 + 0
1999 NO SECOND ROUND PICK
2000 Tomas Kopecky (38th) 418 + 37
2001 Igor Grigorenko (62nd) 0 + 0
2002 Jiri Hudler (58th) 409 + 60 *still playing
2002 Tomas Fleischmann (63rd) 387 + 29 *still playing
2003 Jimmy Howard (64th) 192 + 28 *still playing
2004 NO SECOND ROUND PICK
2005 Justin Abdelkader (42nd) 208 + 37
2006 Cory Emmerton (41st) 73 + 5 *still playing
2006 Shawn Matthias (47th) 205 + 7 *still playing
2006 Dick Axelsson (62nd) 0 + 0
I think it’s fair to assume young Emmerton will reach the 200 game threshold.
11 career NHLers out of 19 = 58% of Wing 2nd round picks equate to “career players”
…. FAR exceeding the average of 25%.
If you choose to believe Emmerton will NOT reach the 200 game threshold Wings are still at 53% = stellar!
It all adds up to this:
The Red Wings have done a solid job of drafting in the 1st round, given position, in Blob’s stated timeframe.
The Red Wings have done a fantastic
job of drafting in the 2nd round in Blob’s stated timeframe.
And of course we all agree the Wings have been lights-out beyond the 2nd round in Blob’s stated timeframe.
Speaking of lights-out Fred.... thanks for coming out.