Booth kills baited bear

[Per]

So, in other words...Jesus died on the cross for nothing. These are the facts, the Christians of today simply do not practice what Jesus was preaching. If Jesus the extreme socialist came back today, I don't think the Arab Jew would be very happy with his so-called apparent followers who are nothing more than a violent, racist, greedy bunch of pornographic, snuff-film sado-masochists.

No one can practice what Jesus preached, thats the whole point dude. you need his help to live it, so you better start praying

I disagree. The early Christians went the full nine yards, practiced non-violence, no earthly possessions, the whole shebang. It was only after Paul hi-jacked this tiny Jewish sect, turned everything on its head and made it the most successful McReligion of all time that people got the notion that they could call themselves Christians while ignoring everything Jesus said, and once it became the official religion of the Roman empire, it got even worse.

Jesus always sided with the outsiders, the little guy. The church has pretty much always sided with the powerful.
Jesus was vehemently opposed to violence, the church has started a zillion wars in his name.

Yet there are those that have tried to stay true to his teachings even in relatively modern times, like eg the Quakers and to some extent the Jesuites. The liberation theology of Latin America (which started with the Jesuites) also comes pretty close to what Jesus taught. But the mainstream church basically goes against what Jesus taught.

[dbr]

No one can practice what Jesus preached, thats the whole point dude. you need his help to live it, so you better start praying

So because it's impractical to achieve all of it you might as well not bother trying any of it?

Sounds suspiciously like your professed stance on gun control.

[RoyalDude]

No one can practice what Jesus preached, thats the whole point dude. you need his help to live it, so you better start praying

LMFAO...uk, stop it your killing me man. 'You need his help to live it'? What the fuck is that??? One of America's most valued rights - Freedom of Choice. Freedom of Speech. Nobody is stopping the Christian of today from staying true to Jesus words, the reason he died on the cross for the likes of you. I mean, isn't that why you are a Christian, shit do you even know why you are a Christian? What is so hard about 'turning the other cheek to violence'? Being against organized religion, being an extreme socialist, helping the need, against greed, against war blah, blah, blah. Doesn't sound so hard to me. There is no draft, Christian gun toting soldiers can bow out any time they like. Nobody is holding a gun against your head, UK to stop you from being true to Jesus words. He was a world peace loving man, meek shall inherit the earth. You idiots have completely butchered his ways into something else that has been pretty much the reason why there has been nothing but pure violence since they day he's died until now.

If Doc is right, 93% of the world is Christian??? Then there should be no need for violence if actually every Christian followed what Jesus was really about.

Do you think that Jesus would apply for a gun liscence and buy a human killing weapon like what Lanza had if he came back today? Would you see Jesus at NRA rallies? Would Jesus be a Republican, LMAO. Fuck, he'd practically be a communist. You guys just don't get it, which is why you all are the laughing stock of all religions. Hell, the Tibetan Monks are more true to Jesus words the McChristians of today and they ain't even Christians.

[ukcanuck]

So, in other words...Jesus died on the cross for nothing. These are the facts, the Christians of today simply do not practice what Jesus was preaching. If Jesus the extreme socialist came back today, I don't think the Arab Jew would be very happy with his so-called apparent followers who are nothing more than a violent, racist, greedy bunch of pornographic, snuff-film sado-masochists.

No one can practice what Jesus preached, thats the whole point dude. you need his help to live it, so you better start praying

I disagree. The early Christians went the full nine yards, practiced non-violence, no earthly possessions, the whole shebang. It was only after Paul hi-jacked this tiny Jewish sect, turned everything on its head and made it the most successful McReligion of all time that people got the notion that they could call themselves Christians while ignoring everything Jesus said, and once it became the official religion of the Roman empire, it got even worse.

Jesus always sided with the outsiders, the little guy. The church has pretty much always sided with the powerful.
Jesus was vehemently opposed to violence, the church has started a zillion wars in his name.

Yet there are those that have tried to stay true to his teachings even in relatively modern times, like eg the Quakers and to some extent the Jesuites. The liberation theology of Latin America (which started with the Jesuites) also comes pretty close to what Jesus taught. But the mainstream church basically goes against what Jesus taught.

yes you are right and in that respect its quite simple, all one really has to do is give away all his or her worldly possessions and spend the rest of their lives helping the poor and homeless and sick. It would probably be a great and wonderful life, but you know as well as I that giving your possessions away would mean that some rich guy would probably end up with it all. Your kids would lose out on their father and their inheritance. and your family would likely be calling in the psychiatrists.

You cant be in the world and of the world and live like Jesus or follow his example to the letter. life is about compromise, faced with opposing alternatives (feeding your child, feeding a poor child) you make choices, you pray to your God (Jesus if thats who it is for you) that you made the right choice and you move on. In this violent shit hole called civilization what else can anyone do?

[ukcanuck]

No one can practice what Jesus preached, thats the whole point dude. you need his help to live it, so you better start praying

So because it's impractical to achieve all of it you might as well not bother trying any of it?

Sounds suspiciously like your professed stance on gun control.

lol not exactly what i said, I said you do the best you can, and then you hope that God helps you out with the rest.

Just like you defend your family with what God gave you, (brains and courage) and then call on Winchester for the rest.

[RoyalDude]

yes you are right and in that respect its quite simple, all one really has to do is give away all his or her worldly possessions and spend the rest of their lives helping the poor and homeless and sick. It would probably be a great and wonderful life, but you know as well as I that giving your possessions away would mean that some rich guy would probably end up with it all. Your kids would lose out on their father and their inheritance. and your family would likely be calling in the psychiatrists.

You cant be in the world and of the world and live like Jesus or follow his example to the letter. life is about compromise, faced with opposing alternatives (feeding your child, feeding a poor child) you make choices, you pray to your God (Jesus if thats who it is for you) that you made the right choice and you move on. In this violent shit hole called civilization what else can anyone do?

Well, if you can't do that, make a gods honest effort, then stop calling yourself a good Christian, you half-ass, cherry picking believer , or whatever suits your fancy. You just don't pick n choose what Jesus is about, "I like that, I can do that, don't like that won't do that...so on" You are either all in or all out, otherwise, ya truly ain't a Christian. Just some American Tele-Evangelist/George Bush butchered version of it. A McChristian with a Buschman Semi Automatic against Healthcare reform.

[Topper]

I wanted to name my son Jesus. I figured it was a perk of being married to a Latina and only fitting for the Son of a God.

[ukcanuck]

yes you are right and in that respect its quite simple, all one really has to do is give away all his or her worldly possessions and spend the rest of their lives helping the poor and homeless and sick. It would probably be a great and wonderful life, but you know as well as I that giving your possessions away would mean that some rich guy would probably end up with it all. Your kids would lose out on their father and their inheritance. and your family would likely be calling in the psychiatrists.

You cant be in the world and of the world and live like Jesus or follow his example to the letter. life is about compromise, faced with opposing alternatives (feeding your child, feeding a poor child) you make choices, you pray to your God (Jesus if thats who it is for you) that you made the right choice and you move on. In this violent shit hole called civilization what else can anyone do?

Well, if you can't do that, make a gods honest effort, then stop calling yourself a good Christian, you half-ass, cherry picking believer , or whatever suits your fancy. You just don't pick n choose what Jesus is about, "I like that, I can do that, don't like that won't do that...so on" You are either all in or all out, otherwise, ya truly ain't a Christian. Just some American Tele-Evangelist/George Bush butchered version of it. A McChristian with a Buschman Semi Automatic against Healthcare reform.

Dude I know you are just trying to get under my skin, but do you seriously think you are gonna lecture me on my Christianity? you're having trouble distinguishing between Catholic and Protestant and I'll put money down that you've never read one word that Jesus said for yourself. (its the red script in the New Testament if you're interested) Matthew is good book to read or some prefer the Book of John.
Anyway if we are going to point the hypocrite finger how about screaming blue murder when someone like Booth points out they have taken Christ out of classrooms and then try to turn it around and use it against those same people and calling them anti Christian? Thats not hypocrisy at all, you don't want to have anything to do with Christ yet you want to use him in an argument? you cant have it both ways..

[RoyalDude]

Anyway if we are going to point the hypocrite finger how about screaming blue murder when someone like Booth points out they have taken Christ out of classrooms and then try to turn it around and use it against those same people and calling them anti Christian? Thats not hypocrisy at all, you don't want to have anything to do with Christ yet you want to use him in an argument? you cant have it both ways..

Why do religious beliefs of any kind have to be brought into the class room? It comes from inside and personal study, the way it should be. Political beliefs and Religious beliefs in the class room is wrong IMO, but have no problem with the study of Religious History and Political Science in the Class room as long as the education not biased. And through that education people can make their own personal choices with what political party and religious belief they best relate to. You can carry on in your daily life, in school, outside of school, in work outside of work being true to your faith and politcal party without shoving it into the faces of others. Your relation with your religion should only be between you and god and those of your kind. I have issues with religious recruitment, religion is a personal discovery my friend, not persuaded.

[ukcanuck]

Anyway if we are going to point the hypocrite finger how about screaming blue murder when someone like Booth points out they have taken Christ out of classrooms and then try to turn it around and use it against those same people and calling them anti Christian? Thats not hypocrisy at all, you don't want to have anything to do with Christ yet you want to use him in an argument? you cant have it both ways..

Why do religious beliefs of any kind have to be brought into the class room? It comes from inside and personal study, the way it should be. Political beliefs and Religious beliefs in the class room is wrong IMO, but have no problem with the study of Religious History and Political Science in the Class room as long as the education not biased. You can carry on in your daily life, in school, outside of school, in work outside of work being true to your faith and politcal party without shoving it into the faces of others. Your relation with your religion should only be between you and god and those of your kind. I have issues with religious recruitment, religion is a personal discovery my friend, not persuaded.

But you just finished saying that Christ is all about love and forgiveness and sacrifice, why then do you want to remove all reference to him in schools ? We aren't talking about teaching kids that if you don't believe in Christ you will go to hell, or that cavemen rode dinosaurs, or the world was created in 6 days. We are talking about its a good thing to pray every day along with singing O Canada, that Christmas is a time of year to celebrate family and redemption and forgiveness, and that thanksgiving is about giving thanks to God...why take that away from kids? Perhaps believing in God is about believing in something bigger than ourselves and teaching that to children is wise thing if you want them to grow into responsive adults...

[RoyalDude]

Dude I know you are just trying to get under my skin, but do you seriously think you are gonna lecture me on my Christianity? you're having trouble distinguishing between Catholic and Protestant and I'll put money down that you've never read one word that Jesus said for yourself. (its the red script in the New Testament if you're interested) Matthew is good book to read or some prefer the Book of John.

Dude, I ain't a religious man, I was baptized Catholic and never spent a day in church, other than the odd marriage ceremony and funeral. It's true, I have never studied a page of the bible, do no care to. Regarding Catholic's and Protestants, ain't the Protestants a bunch of lying cockney cunts and pricks who don't recognize the Pope and the Vatican, centralized at Westminster Abbey where that pedophile Prince Charles was silver spooned?

I don't need to be a scholar on religion to know when certain folk, whether it's religious, political, whatever to know when they are not true to their faith but claim to be. You'd have to be living under a rock to not realize that most Christians of today have completely butchered and improvised to their own liking what Jesus died on the cross for.

[RoyalDude]

But you just finished saying that Christ is all about love and forgiveness and sacrifice, why then do you want to remove all reference to him in schools ?

The gist of my argument was simply this, relating back to the discussion of guns, war and violence and the NRA Aryan Christians of the world, 'When confronted with violence Jesus, like Ghandi, preached a non-reactive, non-violent, turning of the other cheek response', unlike the War Mongering McChristians of today. The way you McChristians want to refer to him in the class room is more of a prayer session than actual unbiased education, ya jack ass. Anybody, anyone can educate themselves on religion, ya don't need to be in a class room for it, go to the fucking Library on your spare . And like I said, religious should be studied as a whole and on all religious beliefs, not just Christianity my friend, and if that's not the case then it's pretty much just an hour of devotioin to Christ in school, nothing more than that, which is wrong. The school system should not be biased to any ONE religion or political party. Have your fucking freedom of speech prayer sessions, political rallies before school, recess, lunch or after school anywhere ya damn well like. Taxpayers of the school system, paying for an hour devoted to just christianity, is fucking wrong my friend. IF ya don't like that then send your poor oppressed Children to a Christian school, and not the public school system, Christian schools ain't hard to find my friend.

If you strongly back Booth's opinion on this then you and Booth shouldn't have a problem with me practicing the Kama Sutra with my wife in any Christian Church to my liking.

[ukcanuck]

But you just finished saying that Christ is all about love and forgiveness and sacrifice, why then do you want to remove all reference to him in schools ?

The gist of my argument was simply this, relating back to the discussion of guns, war and violence and the NRA Aryan Christians of the world, 'When confronted with violence Jesus, like Ghandi, preached a non-reactive, non-violent, turning of the other cheek response', unlike the War Mongering McChristians of today. The way you McChristians want to refer to him in the class room is more of a prayer session than actual unbiased education, ya jack ass. Anybody, anyone can educate themselves on religion, ya don't need to be in a class room for it, go to the fucking Library on your spare . And like I said, religious should be studied as a whole and on all religious beliefs, not just Christianity my friend, if that's the case then it's pretty much just an hour of devotioin to Christ in school, nothing more than that. The school system should not biased to any ONE religion or political party.

M personal experience as a Catholic kid in a classroom full of Alliance church kids, a couple of native kids and sprinkle of army brats in Chilliwack with a God fearing born again hardnosed, ex logger school teacher,was that religion can be a very excluding thing. Catholic, Jehovah witness, Native spirituality, pagan or atheist whatever it didn't matter, you were an outsider and the well wishing Mennonite derivative Christians couldn't help but make one feel like an outsider, so I totally get why one should be careful about bringing religion into schools. Kids are cruel and they won't hesitate to use difference as a weapon...

The thing is, that 95% Doc mentioned is the percent of Humans that believe in a God of some kind. For Jews, Christians, and Muslims its the exact same God. for Hindu's and Buddhists it gets complicated, but all of the 5 major religions and including the minor ones and old school ones like Paganism believe in something greater than Humanity and this existence in the here and now. They ALL have a place in school not just as religions as a thing to study like Philosophy, but to be recognised as a part of who each of us are.
Unfortunately though, people with the same mistaken point of view as you have charged headlong into banning Christ from school just as you are now charging headlong into banning Guns from society, its the same reaction as always, burn and destroy what you don't know or understand. we dont burn witches at the stake anymore but its always the easy answer, ban it, create a law against it, cast it out... And being Christians doesnt make one immune either, hell we practically invented it.

[Per]

I wanted to name my son Jesus. I figured it was a perk of being married to a Latina and only fitting for the Son of a God.

+

[Per]

Anyway if we are going to point the hypocrite finger how about screaming blue murder when someone like Booth points out they have taken Christ out of classrooms and then try to turn it around and use it against those same people and calling them anti Christian? Thats not hypocrisy at all, you don't want to have anything to do with Christ yet you want to use him in an argument? you cant have it both ways..

Why do religious beliefs of any kind have to be brought into the class room? It comes from inside and personal study, the way it should be. Political beliefs and Religious beliefs in the class room is wrong IMO, but have no problem with the study of Religious History and Political Science in the Class room as long as the education not biased. You can carry on in your daily life, in school, outside of school, in work outside of work being true to your faith and politcal party without shoving it into the faces of others. Your relation with your religion should only be between you and god and those of your kind. I have issues with religious recruitment, religion is a personal discovery my friend, not persuaded.

But you just finished saying that Christ is all about love and forgiveness and sacrifice, why then do you want to remove all reference to him in schools ? We aren't talking about teaching kids that if you don't believe in Christ you will go to hell, or that cavemen rode dinosaurs, or the world was created in 6 days. We are talking about its a good thing to pray every day along with singing O Canada, that Christmas is a time of year to celebrate family and redemption and forgiveness, and that thanksgiving is about giving thanks to God...why take that away from kids? Perhaps believing in God is about believing in something bigger than ourselves and teaching that to children is wise thing if you want them to grow into responsive adults...

We've already been talking about freedom of speech and the right to bare arms, and an equally important right is freedom of religion. That means that the government should have no say in what religious beliefs you are allowed to have. Thus any school run by the government, ie all public schools, should abstain from pushing any religion. They should inform about them, but not make you perform religious rites. If a private school chooses to include prayer etc, fine, but public schools should not be pushing a specific religion.