Booth kills baited bear

[Uncle dans leg]

So the "right to bare arms" wasn't about T-shirts?

[Blob Mckenzie]

Dude is the Dana Murzyn of the board.

Since you're so interested...

Oh btw I liked Murzyn, he was stand up...


[quote]
And he spent most of the time on his ass when he got into a debate (errrrr....... a fight) Sound familiar ?

People aren't saying " ban guns they are bad " or whatever that drivel you spewed was. People are saying outlaw the automatic weapons that allow some cat to squeeze off 100 bullets per minute. There's no fucking need for it. If buddy wants to make it rain in the bush then to to a fucking gun shop and go nuts. I happen to know of a good one in Vegas . It's like owning a fucking pitbull for these people, just to say they got the biggest most bad ass dog around. Pitbulls should be shot on site imho.

Blame it on the govt. and the gun companies. The only people who should have access to these types of weapons are the fucking military.

[Strangelove]

homicide levels [in the UK] are just a third of what they are in the USA

Again with the stats eh?

Okay you asked for it, a little more perspective....

(right-click on the graphs and open them in a new window)

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/ ... media.html



Of the 206 countries in the world, USA is #103.

Middle of the pack y'might say.

Some other interesting stats from that article:

In over 52% of the murders in the US in 2011 in which the race of the murderer was known, the murderer was black. Over half of the victims of murder were also black. But blacks are only 13.6% of the population. Put all that together, and the murder rate in the US for non-blacks was more like 2.6 per 100,000 in 2011.

As Peter Baldwin put it in his book, The Narcissism of Minor Differences, "Take out the black underclass from the statistics, and even American murder rates fall to European levels."

Interesting, no?

But far most interesting of all is the following:

Statistics indicate a more heavily armed population tends to go hand-in-hand with LESS murder!

Oh it's true....

Data sources: UNODC and the Small Arms Survey

To the eyeball, it looks like a more heavily armed population goes hand-in-hand with less murder, as an average. The statistics bear that out: the correlation coefficient is negative, -0.23, and it is statistically significant.

You can look for various trends, but there is no evidence here that the availability of guns leads to more murders. Two of the most heavily armed countries, Finland and Switzerland, have murder rates of 2.2 and 0.7, among the lowest in the world. On the other hand, every country with a murder rate at least 5 times greater than the U.S.'s has at least 5 times fewer firearms per person than the U.S.

So yeah, statistically speaking, you want less murder in your country?

Hand out more guns to the general population!

HAPPY, you stat-loving sunnuva you-know-wot?!!

[ukcanuck]

Dude is the Dana Murzyn of the board.
Since you're so interested...

Oh btw I liked Murzyn, he was stand up...

And he spent most of the time on his ass when he got into a debate (errrrr....... a fight) Sound familiar ?

If he spent a lot of time on his ass it must have worked for him, Dana murzyn had a long NHL career, played for three teams, won a stanley cup. Cleared out the front of the net and stood up for his teammates... I'll take that

People aren't saying " ban guns they are bad " or whatever that drivel you spewed was. People are saying outlaw the automatic weapons that allow some cat to squeeze off 100 bullets per minute.

maybe you aren't saying ban all the guns but plenty of people are...

There's no fucking need for it.

you are right and there is also no need to spray a room with a 600 rounds when 30 will do... one could do as much damage with firearms that people don't want to ban. you know like a shotgun and a couple of handguns or revolvers...

granted an automatic with a large clip would be a lot more gruesome but dead is dead...

If buddy wants to make it rain in the bush then to to a fucking gun shop and go nuts. I happen to know of a good one in Vegas . It's like owning a fucking pitbull for these people, just to say they got the biggest most bad ass dog around. Pitbulls should be shot on site imho.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you want to characterize me as always on my ass on the this board, you see things in so black and white....I don't particularly want firearms to be so easily available that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can walk into Walmart on a whim and buy a military grade assault rifle and head down to the local school... What I am saying is that the people... responsible, law abiding, grown up citizens of the Republic of the United States of America have a constitutional right to bear arms and right that cannot be infringed upon. whatever solution you want has to respect that. Obviously I am not American but if I were, I would not be giving that right up easily.

Blame it on the govt. and the gun companies. The only people who should have access to these types of weapons are the fucking military.

lemme ask you something?
I don't know how many guns there are in the hands of ordinary Canadians, but what if the ratio was the same as for the States and there were 40 million private firearms in Canada and any one of those 'referendums" Quebec keeps holding finally actually passes in their favour... Do you think that either the Feds or the national assembly in Quebec would have to take that fact into consideration when dividing the country's assets up? or would you prefer to let the politicians decide for you free of such consequence?

[Strangelove]

Looks like one of Topper and Strangelove's brethren let loose the hounds on a couple unsuspecting fireman, killing them both and injuring a few others with the same make and calibre rifle as the one used by Lanza. The carnage, THE CARNAGE!. MAKE IT STOP! continues and continues and continues. What I don't get, this dude here spent 17 years in jail for a previous murder, how the fuck did this nutbar get a hold of such killing machines? I will tell you what, it's Toppers and Strangeloves love for lax gun control laws all in the name of the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

You twisted SOB, stop trying to make it sound like Topper and yours truly are in favour of these shootings.

We all know YOU are the only one at this site who has murder in her heart:

Personally, I think we should hand out hunting licenses to non-gun loving people to hunt and kill any NRA member around the world they see fit. The NRA wants guns? How about putting them on the receiving end of them?

Well you and your “pizano” (no-doubt) pal Dangler!

You 2 you-know-wots are part of the reason good guys like Topper and I should have the right to arm ourselves.

[ukcanuck]

You twisted SOB, stop trying to make it sound like Topper and yours truly are in favour of these shootings.

I hate that shit, people do that a lot around here, and not just on this issue either...

[Strangelove]

I hate that shit, people do that a lot around here, and not just on this issue either...

Amen brother.

[Blob Mckenzie]

You twisted SOB, stop trying to make it sound like Topper and yours truly are in favour of these shootings.

I hate that shit, people do that a lot around here, and not just on this issue either...

Oh is that what happens ??? You take some very clownish positions on this board. I appreciate differences of opinions......devils advocate for sure but don't go blaming others if they take issue with some of the shit you say uk.

Merry Christmas

[okcanuck]

Why would anyone bring up stats separating the whites and blacks as far as victims and shooters go? Thats fucking nonsense.
Whats that got to do with anything? Humans in the States are being murdered by guns at a much higher rate because it is legal to own these totally useless high-powered semi-automatic rifles.

[ukcanuck]

You twisted SOB, stop trying to make it sound like Topper and yours truly are in favour of these shootings.

I hate that shit, people do that a lot around here, and not just on this issue either...

Oh is that what happens ??? You take some very clownish positions on this board. I appreciate differences of opinions......devils advocate for sure but don't go blaming others if they take issue with some of the shit you say uk.

Merry Christmas

Thats not really what I meant, if one takes the devils advocate you kind of want a reaction and the more emotional the better, its just that you and me we aren't our opinions and we definitely aren't one opinion. At least I don't hold yours against you. I mean I kind of like your posts and agree with some of them too even though I think your an asshole sometimes. Merry Christmas to you as well Blobber

Do you remember when you were getting raked over pretty hard for your opinion of Hodgson, If I recall people were attacking you for shit you didn't say too...

[ukcanuck]

Why would anyone bring up stats separating the whites and blacks as far as victims and shooters go? Thats fucking nonsense.
Whats that got to do with anything? Humans in the States are being murdered by guns at a much higher rate because it is legal to own these totally useless high-powered semi-automatic rifles.

Because guns don't kill people, people kill people and many times they do it for socio-economic reasons.

[okcanuck]

Why would anyone bring up stats separating the whites and blacks as far as victims and shooters go? Thats fucking nonsense.
Whats that got to do with anything? Humans in the States are being murdered by guns at a much higher rate because it is legal to own these totally useless high-powered semi-automatic rifles.

Because guns don't kill people, people kill people and many times they do it for socio-economic reasons.

Listen UK you still haven't answered my previous questions. Why on earth do you think an ordinary person in the states should be able to own these semi-automatic weapons? Is it so they can defend themselves or is it so they can have fun at a gun range? And dont give me this fucking slippery-slope bull-shit.

[ukcanuck]

Why would anyone bring up stats separating the whites and blacks as far as victims and shooters go? Thats fucking nonsense.
Whats that got to do with anything? Humans in the States are being murdered by guns at a much higher rate because it is legal to own these totally useless high-powered semi-automatic rifles.

Because guns don't kill people, people kill people and many times they do it for socio-economic reasons.

Listen UK you still haven't answered my previous questions. Why on earth do you think an ordinary person in the states should be able to own these semi-automatic weapons? Is it so they can defend themselves or is it so they can have fun at a gun range? And dont give me this fucking slippery-slope bull-shit.

I am a law abiding citizen and I am entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... Who are you to tell me how when or where I can protect myself, how, when or where I have liberty or how when or where I am happy.

bottom line is I don't have to justify to you why I exercise my rights. if you want me to surrender my rights for the common good you have to show me how thats going to help... So far you have not made a convincing case.

-The Lanza kid could easily have killed 20 people with a shotgun and a couple of hand guns...
-Mass murder happens without guns as well
-we have barely begun to understand the psychology in such atrocities, perhaps dealing with child abuse would be a better start
-run of the mill crime and gun related deaths have more to do with poverty and drug abuse than availability of guns

fix these problems first, then see if guns are an issue and I'll bet they wont be near as bad as say ... automobile accidents

However, if after all that its still an issue then we can talk, but I'm not throwing even one right out the window until the last resort... too many good people died to win me those rights...

[Topper]

Listen UK you still haven't answered my previous questions. Why on earth do you think an ordinary person in the states should be able to own these semi-automatic weapons? Is it so they can defend themselves or is it so they can have fun at a gun range? And dont give me this fucking slippery-slope bull-shit.

Because it is their constitutional right to do so.

In 1776, a rag tag bunch of poorly armed radicals standing up for self determination against an oppressive foreign power forced the surrender of the mightiest, most well armed and well trained force in the world. One of the first acts of the tyrannical power was an attempt to disarm the citizenry.

Therefore the framers of the US Constitution, amended the document in 1791 to include the right to bare arm and bring the US Constitution in line with many of the previously existing State Constitutions.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

What everyday use do semi automatic guns have. Many are great hunting rifles. Most are used by enthusiasts for target shooting. A hobby that keeps them off the streets at night.

[dbr]

I never said that we all should be walking around armed to the teeth. There ought to be responsibility attached to freedom, but ham handed "guns are bad, lets ban them" is not a reasonable answer and attacks rights and freedoms.

Are you fucking kidding me? I don't know if anyone (except maybe RoyalDude, I can't manage more than a quick scan of his posts anymore) said anything even close to "guns are bad, lets ban them."

So your straw man "they're going to take our precious freedoms!" bullshit doesn't cut the mustard.

Hey this is some super sound reasoning. Why not just stop having laws, since it doesn't seem to stop criminals from breaking them?

That's a slight exaggeration don't you think? How do you go from the sound logic that restricting legal weapons to prevent illegal ones being used in crimes won't work to well let's have no laws then?

Let's just say it's similar to going from "meaningful gun control helps reduce gun deaths" to "guns are bad, lets ban them."

Except I didn't seriously do that, nor did I proceed to form an argument against that position.. since you know, nobody actually believes it.

What exactly is wrong with that?

Oh I don't know, what's wrong with stripping rights guaranteed in the constitution? Perhaps freedom of speech will be next?

Pastor Martin frickin Niemoller, ladies and gentlemen.

Maybe then the next time some "responsible" gun owner and innocent civilian has a kid that wants to ventilate a local elementary school he'll have to do more than go rooting around in mommy's closet to get what he needs.

Does leaving firearms around for children to harm themselves and others sound responsible to you? It sure doesn't to me. obviously, there needs to be responsibility attached to every right.

Uhh gee, I thought only career criminals like Al Capone break laws.

If there were meaningful laws covering who could own firearms, how they could be stored and so on and if those laws were enforced there would almost certainly be fewer gun deaths.

Making it harder to kill people is a good thing, even if a given change doesn't fix everything in and of itself.

only if the solution doesn't create more problems than it tries to solve, like starting or continuing a watering down of what it means to be free.

Funny you bring up the prohibition, most studies show that alcohol consumption fell (although certainly not to zero) during that time.

Lets argue about the validity of "studies" of acts done in secrecy...
It was against the law to consume alcohol, where did the data collectors get their stats?

Additionally, even if booze consumption dropped, organized crime certainly got a shot in the arm over prohibition...what makes you think the same wouldn't happen with guns?

I'm not going to get any further into this with you than this: they studied deaths by cirrhosis of the liver and other indicators of alcohol consumption.

I wonder how many lives would be saved by a comparable (30%) drop in gun ownership.. especially if that drop was comprised of the deadliest weapons or the weapons owned by the most menacing demographic or the least responsibly kept weapons?

Do you also think a 30 percent drop in computer availability would help in the reduction of teenagers commuting suicide over Facebook too?

Are you kidding me? I don't even know how to respond to this.

London Met story....

The point of that story was that if the UK is a safer society because it prohibits guns, why does its police force operate like an elite special forces, theoretically the criminals here only have knives?

Ya, some people are always going to have guns. There goes my plan of establishing a completely gun-free society.

Well if the "criminal class" was solely responsible for gun deaths in the United States, or if illegally acquired firearms were the sole cause of gun deaths, you might have a leg to stand on....

And you're telling me that restricting the type of weapons sold, or regulating who can legally own guns, or regulating how they can be stored.. none of that is going to cut down on the number of gun deaths in the US? You can talk about fucking Al Capone all you want but Adam Lanza got his guns from his mother's closet.

...

To all of the above...what do you suppose committing murder or shooting an innocent bystander or leaving your firearms for innocent children to blow away their little buddies makes one????

A "bad guy" - which I guess by your reasoning means that nobody who ever commits a crime (you know, nobody who is "a bad guy") ever purchased the weapon they use to do so at Guns R Us. Too bad the facts don't back you up on that absolutely ludicrous claim.

That's right that would make you a criminal who doesn't respect the law. Who doesn't respect the rights they are born with.

And who should be held accountable for his actions...

Uh huh. How do you hold someone who kills a bunch of people and them himself accountable, again?

as an aside, those stats where it says legally obtainable or acquired guns...do they bother to point out the difference between a gun that can be legally acquired and a legally acquirable gun with its numbers filed off...a slight difference don't you think?

Yeah actually, the difference is spelled out in my post if you'd bothered to read it carefully. The most common of the police shootings were the ones in which a legal gun owner used their legally obtained gun. If you add together the other instances in which a legally obtained gun was used by someone other than its legal owner (who was probably not storing it responsibly if they had it stolen, or do you think someone stole a gun with a trigger lock and then bothered to pick or break the lock on it when there are hundreds of millions of other firearms in that country) comprises a similar number.

..

But anyways this is all pointless and right now I am only arguing with your posts because it's fun to be so incredibly, one-sidedly correct - since you pretty much admitted earlier you are arguing against a complete straw man and actually hold similar views to mine (some weapons should be restricted, some people should not be able to own guns, guns should be stored in a safe and responsible manner, people who break these and other laws should be held accountable for their actions).

My last question would be though, how can you be in favour of free speech and in favour of people scratching, clawing and kicking to keep every bit of every aspect of their "rights" and still be in favour of legislation against hate speech?