There will be a strike

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Arachnid » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:20 pm

Cornuck wrote:Socialism, Capitalism, Communism.... it doesn't matter which "ism" is operating, the people at the top will be greedy and the system will eventually collapse.


Bravo Cornman, all the isms on here can go *@#$^ themselves 8-)
There is no such thing as climate change...there is no such thing as climate change...there is such thing as climate change...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Aaronp18 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:25 pm

My own personal, unexpected hockey insider said that he heard from a NHLers family member that a deal has been agreed upon. It will be announced post Christmas that the season will start in January.

Take it for what it's worth, it's like 3-4th hand info and I have no idea how reliable the source is but it would be a nice present.

:santa:
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:26 pm

I just scraped a skiff of snow off the driveway and played some street hockey with my kid. Our season is going great.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Per » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:45 pm

I assume the Danes are doing everything they can to keep this conflict going.

They are playing qualification games for the 2014 Olympics in February, and adding six NHL players to the roster would probably make a world of a difference.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Per » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:45 pm

And albeit Bettman won't let anyone play in his sandbox, the WJC is on at least?
See other thread here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=9671&start=15
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:16 am

Ok another line in the sand and no further from Bettman it seems... could this finally be the offer that gets a deal done?

the new offer includes the 'Make Whole' provision that stays at $300 million and allows each team one compliance buyout prior to the 2013-14 season. The buyout would not count against the cap, but it would against the players' share.

Just gotta love the job Fehr is doing here, I know in terms of its killing the season it sucks, but c'mon, who else would be getting this tap dance out of Bettman? In the end, as some here have pointed, out the deal has to be in favour of the owners since they hold the hammer but damn if the deal won't be exactly what they want... those tax evading gangsters will end up having to wipe less cake from their lips.

aside: wonder who the Canucks use this provision on?
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:45 am

Brilliant move by Bettman and the League.

Takes the NHLPA to court in New York to claim a friendly jurisdiction.

Reply to Fehr and the players demand for buyouts by giving them one, at the players cost.

Going to 6 years from 5 on term limits and 10% from 5% on variance may even be a boon to the owners fitting existing and future contracts into a lower cap.

By submitting an offer now, after the players voted in favour of the disclaimer, gives the PA little to stand on if they are to say the league is not negotiating in good faith.

No word on length of the deal, but I doubt the league gave anything there.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Reefer2 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:50 am

I am hoping this gets a deal done, but again I don't expect it to be easy. If a deal gets done I then wonder will Kesler be ready to go mid January of will it take to February as his agent indicated a few weeks ago.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:45 pm

Help what's happening


- Ten-Year Agreement (through 2021/22 season); Parties have mutual opt-out right after 8 years.

- 50-50 Revenue Split between Clubs and Players with current HRR Accounting.

- $300 million in "Make-Whole" payments (outside the system) to compensate Players for the reduced value of Player contracts in the early years of the new CBA.

- No contractual "roll backs" of Player Salaries.

- Clubs can operate with an effective Upper Limit of $70.2 million in 2012/13; must come into compliance with $60 million Upper Limit for the start of the 2013/14 season.

- Each Club will be entitled to execute up to one "Compliance Buy-Out" prior to the 2013/14 season pursuant to which payments made to the Player will not be charged against the team's Cap, but will be charged against the Players' Share.

- Establishment of a Defined Benefit Pension Plan that will provide maximum permissible benefits to Players upon retirement. The Plan will be funded with contributions out of Players' Share and $50 million of the "Make-Whole" payment amount of $300 million will be allocated and set aside to fund potential underfunding liabilities of the Plan at end of CBA.

- Rules for Entry Level System, Salary Arbitration and Group 3 Unrestricted Free Agency will remain unchanged.

- Maximum contract length of 6 years subject to a Club's ability to re-sign its own Player for a term of up to 7 years (provided the Player played his last full season with the re-signing Club). In addition, year-to-year Salary variability will be limited (up or down) to no more than 10% of the value of the first year of a multi-year SPC.

- Money paid (above a defined threshold) to Players on NHL SPCs in another professional league (e.g., the AHL or a European league) will be charged against the NHL team's Cap, but not against the Players' Share.

- "Cap Advantage Recapture" formula applicable to existing long-term contracts (in excess of 6 years) for years in which Player is retired or fails/refuses to perform under his NHL SPC.

- Ability for Clubs to retain/allocate Salary and Cap Charges in the context of Player Trades within specified parameters.

- More robust League-wide Revenue Sharing Program (increased pool from approximately $150 million to $200 million) with creation of Industry Growth Fund to improve the long-term revenue generating potential of the League and low-grossing Clubs. Formation of active Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee on which NHLPA will participate.

- New Player Discipline procedures and protocol incorporating Player appeal rights to a neutral third-party arbitrator for both on-ice and off-ice discipline.

- Flexibility-related adjustments to Payroll Range System, including (in addition to Salary/Cap Charge allocation in Player trades):
1. Lower Limit obligation without performance bonuses;
2. Elimination of Re-Entry Waivers;
3. Creation of Salary Cap exceptions for emergency roster situations/goaltender injuries;
4. Waiver exemptions for mid-season signings of Club's own European Players;
5. Availability of Performance Bonus Cushion in every year of the CBA; and
6. Creation of "interview period" for Unrestricted Free Agents.

- Various Player contract enhancements and protections, including:
1. Early activation of "No Move/No Trade" clauses in contract extensions;
2. Additional restrictions on Club "buy-out" rights of Player contracts;
3. Modified Waiver obligations for Clubs / enhanced Waiver opportunities for Players;
4. Standardization of reimbursements and benefits related to Player assignments (trades, loans, recalls, etc.);
5. Continued increases in League Minimum Salary and Per Diem;
6. Playoff Pool increased from $6.5 million to $13 million in Year 1; additional regular increases over the balance of the CBA term;
7. All minor league salary paid in USD;
8. Liberalized "Cap treatment" standards for Club initiatives benefitting Players, such as "parent-son" road trips; milestone awards/gifts; parental travel and lodging for attendance at EL Player games, Club provision of various types of "professional development"-type services for Players, etc.

- Player "Working Condition" improvements, including:
1. Ice-time restrictions and mandatory "days off" requirements during Training Camp;
2. Club practice schedule and "days off" requirements during the Regular Season;
3. Extended "Christmas Break" (i.e., December 24-26 "days off" for all purposes);
4. Mandatory facility standards for Visiting Teams relating to training/medical supplies, workout equipment and dressing room standards/supplies;
5. Implementation of "best practices" and continued League initiatives to ensure optimal ice conditions;
6. Tighter restrictions/regulation of Club off-season conditioning requirements and Club Conditioning Camp; and
7. Establishment of annual Orientation and Development Program for Rookies/First Year Players.

- New CBA Article devoted exclusively to Player Health and Safety measures and covering such matters as:
1. The establishment of a Joint NHL/NHLPA Health and Safety Committee with equal representation from the NHL and the NHLPA;
2. The establishment of "Standard of Care" and "Professional Duty" obligations owing from team health care professionals to Players;
3. The establishment of minimum requirements for "health management" staffing and resources;
4. The establishment of standards for the creation, updating and maintenance of Electronic Medical Records for Players;
5. Improvements to Second Medical Opinion procedures and protocol and Fitness to Play determinations; and
6. Implementation of additional steps and safeguards to monitor the use (and possible misuse) of prescription medication by Players.
7. Increased flexibility for Players for rehabilitation of injuries during the offseason.

- Elimination of NHLPA "Guarantee" of Escrow shortfall and increased NHLPA discretion to determine in-season Escrow Rates.

- Completion of expert third-party review of SABH Program and commitment to make recommended modifications and improvements, as appropriate.

- Improvements to existing Performance Enhancing Substances Program, including:
1. Expansion of Prohibited Substances List to include illegal stimulants;
2. The establishment of testing protocol for HGH;
3. Varied forms and times of testing throughout the year;
4. The establishment of protocol for "reasonable cause testing";
5. Incorporation of agreed-upon appeal procedures from "positive" test results; and
6. Commitment to work with the AHL and the PHPA to expand Program to cover AHL Players.

- Joint (NHL/NHLPA) Committees:
1. Formation of new "Owner-Player Relations Committee," with broad-based participation from Owners and Players intended to foster and establish better understanding and stronger working relationships.
2. Formation of new "Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee" to oversee the operation of the Revenue Sharing System.
3. Formation of new "Joint Health and Safety Committee" to make recommendations to the NHL and the NHLPA on Player Health and Safety matters.
4. Formation of new "NHL/NHLPA Equipment Working Group" to study, promulgate and enforce minimum standards for protective equipment utilized by NHL Players.
5. Refined and enhanced role for "Player/Club Competition Committee" (CBA Article 22) with greater consultation and interaction with the NHL General Managers' Committee.
6. The "NHL/NHLPA Joint Owner-Player Broadcasting/Marketing Committee" (CBA Article 32) will be reconstituted to consult and establish policy on League broadcasting and marketing matters, as well as other League business functions and initiatives.
7. The NHL/NHLPA International Committee (CBA Article 24) will be charged with jointly identifying, creating, exploiting and managing new international business opportunities involving NHL Players, in which the NHL and NHLPA will participate as 50-50 partners. The NHL/NHLPA International Committee shall also have an advisory role in planning and executing NHL events conducted outside of North America.

- Players provided access to NHL.com platform for their individual Player websites and social media.

- Implementation of a weighted Draft Lottery in which all non-Playoff teams compete for opportunity to choose first overall in the annual Draft.

- Exclusive negotiating rights window for European Draftees extended to one period covering four years, instead of two periods covering two years each.

- Modification to "Four-Recall Rule" to remove limitation on "number of transactions" following the Trade Deadline; replace with limitations on the total number of Recalls on roster at any one time after the Trade Deadline.

- Updated and improved Grievance Arbitration process and procedure.

- Enhanced access to Game Tickets for Visiting Team Players and NHLPA.

- NHLPA representatives to be provided reasonable access to Club facilities and Players at reasonable times.
cheers
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby dbr » Fri Dec 28, 2012 1:56 pm

That $60m cap ceiling is going to hurt.

No matter which way you slice it if they don't make a drastic change the Canucks are going to lose a goaltender and be down to that same 2011 playoff run core (Sedin/Sedin/Burrows/Kesler/Hamhuis/Bieksa/Edler) plus one or maybe two other players paid like core guys.. right now we have three (Garrison/Booth/Ballard).
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Meds » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:07 pm

Well the only things I can say with certainty is that if the NHLPA rejects this offer I will show up at games to throw eggs, of the hard-boiled variety, at the players.

The other thing is that if they do accept it, Scott Gomez has played his last NHL game with Montreal.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Meds » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:10 pm

Reefer2 wrote:I am hoping this gets a deal done, but again I don't expect it to be easy. If a deal gets done I then wonder will Kesler be ready to go mid January of will it take to February as his agent indicated a few weeks ago.


Kesler is probably ready to go today. They are keeping him on the IR and in rehab so the paycheques keep coming in.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:30 pm

Meds wrote:Well the only things I can say with certainty is that if the NHLPA rejects this offer I will show up at games to throw eggs, of the hard-boiled variety, at the players.

The other thing is that if they do accept it, Scott Gomez has played his last NHL game with Montreal.

So I'm curious, in your mind where from their respective starting positions have the players moved versus the owners.
It seems to me that its been all one way so far, the only thing in the players favour has been the severity. On every issue the players have given and yets it seems its not good enough for you.

If I remember correctly you tried to claim the middle ground early in this lockout but it seems for you the middle only seems like that because its so far from your seat over in the owners corner?
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby okcanuck » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:08 pm

Topper wrote:Brilliant move by Bettman and the League.

Takes the NHLPA to court in New York to claim a friendly jurisdiction.

Reply to Fehr and the players demand for buyouts by giving them one, at the players cost.

Going to 6 years from 5 on term limits and 10% from 5% on variance may even be a boon to the owners fitting existing and future contracts into a lower cap.

By submitting an offer now, after the players voted in favour of the disclaimer, gives the PA little to stand on if they are to say the league is not negotiating in good faith.

No word on length of the deal, but I doubt the league gave anything there.


What happened to Buttman's " this is the hill we die on" and why didn't they come up with this 3 months ago. I'll tell you why. Buttman thought nobody would call his bluff.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Meds » Fri Dec 28, 2012 7:49 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Meds wrote:Well the only things I can say with certainty is that if the NHLPA rejects this offer I will show up at games to throw eggs, of the hard-boiled variety, at the players.

The other thing is that if they do accept it, Scott Gomez has played his last NHL game with Montreal.

So I'm curious, in your mind where from their respective starting positions have the players moved versus the owners.
It seems to me that its been all one way so far, the only thing in the players favour has been the severity. On every issue the players have given and yets it seems its not good enough for you.

If I remember correctly you tried to claim the middle ground early in this lockout but it seems for you the middle only seems like that because its so far from your seat over in the owners corner?


I've long held that I hate this lockout and blame both sides for it. The only thing I have faulted the owners for though is their original request for a salary rollback. That was garbage, honor the contract you signed, don't entice a player to work for you for $X and then say, "Oh sorry, we really didn't want to pay that do you'll have to give some back." That is just low, especially in a profitable marketplace.....although apparently some teams are in the red and losing money, so I can appreciate some owners being tired of forking out cash via sharing in order to fund other teams.

I have also said that the owners are the guys underwriting the league and signing the paycheques. They are the ones who either made their money, or inherited it in some cases, but either way they are the people on the hook with contracts to honor and expenses to pay if the market crashes and suddenly profits are hard to come by. The players are guaranteed money regardless of performance and team financial situation. They cannot be laid off, they can not be fired, they will get their money. Every offer the owners have put on the table, since doing away with the rollback, has ensured that the NHLPA members will still be the most highly paid hockey players on the planet. They have pretty much guaranteed that players an incredible lifestyle that the majority of North Americans can only dream of having. They have all but promised that these players will be set for life after just a few short years in the NHL. But apparently that isn't good enough.

The NHL has said they feel badly and are sorry for fans and concerned about the secondary businesses that are feeling the effects of this lockout. They have made no bones about the fact that they have a bottomline and will not go back to playing hockey until they get a deal in place. They have, since their initial offer, made multiple concessions, offered several different deals, and even swallowed a few fairly significant issues that they would certainly rather have spit out. The NHLPA has offered the same proposal (essentially) multiple times. The PA has made a big show about being about the fans, but really, only so long as they keep making ludicrous sums of money which is ultimately paid to them by said fans. For the most part most most of these players don't understand the financial issues at the center of this lockout, they don't have a clue about how tenuous the current global economy is, and they seem to be ignorant to the fact that the people who really pay them make peanuts compared to them. They should, in all reality, be absolutely thrilled to be playing hockey for a living, and being paid 6 and 7, and even 8, figures to do so. Many of them would be flipping burgers or roughnecking on the rigs if not for hockey, and while I understand that everyone will fight to keep what they have, when you ultimately have, and will continue to more than anyone else in the same line of work, or in most other lines for that matter, then I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself and wonder why the hell you are worth so much at the expense of others. The average NHL player makes more per year than most doctors......yeah......they're worth that.

So while I fault both parties, UK, I have never been in the middle.
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