Booth kills baited bear

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Legend
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by ukcanuck » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:35 pm

Per wrote:
Did you even read anything about the Newtown shooting?!
What criminal class? It was a disturbed kid with a gun nut mother.
Exactly the kind of thing stricter gun laws could prevent.
Yeah gun control "might" have limited the carnage in this one case you might be right...but just as likely a determined nut job could have obtained the tools he needed whether guns were banned or not.

The UK is a society where guns are not readily available, yet with a bit of shopping around I could get a gun with my crack or smack purchase even here too...

The thing is, tragedy like Sandy Hook is not a good enough reason to go running around slapping bans left and right. Virtually every cause has a cacophony of righteous zealots who can point to tragedy and if we listen to them all, freedom will be something we might read about in a book.



In the USA, Gun ownership is a right, and concerned citizens should never give up a right, its a slippery slope and totalitarianism is not that far removed from democracy.

People that scoff at the idea that even the US government could quickly turn into a modern nazi state...

Delusion is the name of the ferry that crosses denial ..

User avatar
Per
CC Legend
Posts: 3658
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 am

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by Per » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:53 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
The UK is a society where guns are not readily available, yet with a bit of shopping around I could get a gun with my crack or smack purchase even here too...

The thing is, tragedy like Sandy Hook is not a good enough reason to go running around slapping bans left and right. Virtually every cause has a cacophony of righteous zealots who can point to tragedy and if we listen to them all, freedom will be something we might read about in a book.



In the USA, Gun ownership is a right, and concerned citizens should never give up a right, its a slippery slope and totalitarianism is not that far removed from democracy.

People that scoff at the idea that even the US government could quickly turn into a modern nazi state...

Delusion is the name of the ferry that crosses denial ..
So.... help me out here, you're saying that the UK is a totalitarian country?

And the fact that homicide levels are just a third of what they are in the USA, and that people on average live two years longer are probably not of interest either?
Whatever you do, always give 100 %!
Except when donating blood.

User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Legend
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by ukcanuck » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:28 pm

Per wrote:
So.... help me out here, you're saying that the UK is a totalitarian country?

And the fact that homicide levels are just a third of what they are in the USA, and that people on average live two years longer are probably not of interest either?
What I am saying is that the existence of the free man with inherent inalienable rights and freedoms is a relatively new thing.

In the US gun ownership is included in those rights and they should fight hard to keep that right, because the removal of even one right no matter how illogical that right might seem will only lead to the removal of others.

Human society has exited for at least 10,000 years, give or take, during that time freedom and rights have been a rare and intermittent thing...put simply rights are hard won and should not be cavalierly thrown aside.

As for the UK, yeah,
sometimes it does feel like a totalitarian state, however, maybe people live longer here because we have national health care and look after our sick better??

User avatar
Reefer2
MVP
MVP
Posts: 3968
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:47 am

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by Reefer2 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:47 pm

What does this have to do with Booth baiting a bear, killing the bear and then posting a picture of himself with the dead bear?

Can't wait for hockey to come back so Pot can tell us there is nothing called "chemistry" in hockey and there is no "window" for the Canucks to win. 8-)

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 11423
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:14 pm

LOL @ dbr absolutely mopping the floor with ukcanuck. :lol: :lol:

Dude is the Dana Murzyn of the board.
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

User avatar
okcanuck
CC 1st Team All-Star
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:11 am
Location: Port Alberni

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by okcanuck » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:35 pm

UK, do you think that the right to own guns should include these high-powered semi-automatic assault rifles which can only be used in practical terms in shooting-ranges ? If so, do you think that the sacrifice of children and firefighters is worth that right?

User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Legend
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by ukcanuck » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:02 pm

okcanuck wrote:UK, do you think that the right to own guns should include these high-powered semi-automatic assault rifles which can only be used in practical terms in shooting-ranges ? If so, do you think that the sacrifice of children and firefighters is worth that right?
I think all rights should be like the right to free speech, just because I have the right to say what I want, does not mean I have the right to spread hatred.

I never said that we all should be walking around armed to the teeth. There ought to be responsibility attached to freedom, but ham handed "guns are bad, lets ban them" is not a reasonable answer and attacks rights and freedoms.

User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Legend
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by ukcanuck » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:33 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:LOL @ dbr absolutely mopping the floor with ukcanuck. :lol: :lol:

Dude is the Dana Murzyn of the board.
Since you're so interested...

Oh btw I liked Murzyn, he was stand up...
dbr wrote:
Hey this is some super sound reasoning. Why not just stop having laws, since it doesn't seem to stop criminals from breaking them?
That's a slight exaggeration don't you think? How do you go from the sound logic that restricting legal weapons to prevent illegal ones being used in crimes won't work to well let's have no laws then?
What exactly is wrong with that?
Oh I don't know, what's wrong with stripping rights guaranteed in the constitution? Perhaps freedom of speech will be next?
Maybe then the next time some "responsible" gun owner and innocent civilian has a kid that wants to ventilate a local elementary school he'll have to do more than go rooting around in mommy's closet to get what he needs.
Does leaving firearms around for children to harm themselves and others sound responsible to you? It sure doesn't to me. obviously, there needs to be responsibility attached to every right.
Making it harder to kill people is a good thing, even if a given change doesn't fix everything in and of itself.
only if the solution doesn't create more problems than it tries to solve, like starting or continuing a watering down of what it means to be free.
Funny you bring up the prohibition, most studies show that alcohol consumption fell (although certainly not to zero) during that time.
Lets argue about the validity of "studies" of acts done in secrecy...
It was against the law to consume alcohol, where did the data collectors get their stats?

Additionally, even if booze consumption dropped, organized crime certainly got a shot in the arm over prohibition...what makes you think the same wouldn't happen with guns?
I wonder how many lives would be saved by a comparable (30%) drop in gun ownership.. especially if that drop was comprised of the deadliest weapons or the weapons owned by the most menacing demographic or the least responsibly kept weapons?
Do you also think a 30 percent drop in computer availability would help in the reduction of teenagers commuting suicide over Facebook too?
London Met story....
The point of that story was that if the UK is a safer society because it prohibits guns, why does its police force operate like an elite special forces, theoretically the criminals here only have knives?
Well if the "criminal class" was solely responsible for gun deaths in the United States, or if illegally acquired firearms were the sole cause of gun deaths, you might have a leg to stand on.

The Washington Post looked at 500+ deaths of police officers between 2000 and 2010 and legally acquired guns were the leading cause - 107 of the 341 murder weapons they had been able to track. Another 46 were legally purchased weapons obtained from their rightful owner. Another 77 were stolen (presumably many of these were originally legally obtained as well). So you're looking at a random sample of deaths and of the ones in which the murder weapon could be traced probably the majority goes back to a legal purchase.

If you take a look at a slightly more biased source, the "Violence Policy Center" looked at 59 'high profile' shootings between 1980 and 2001 and found that in 62% of handgun shootings 71% of long gun shootings the murder weapons were legally obtained. They looked at school shootings between 1997 and 2001 and found that in eight of ten the weapons were obtained from family members or friends, and in one of the two remaining cases the kid had previously been given a pistol by his father, he used it to kill both his parents and two classmates. In 14 workplace shootings since 1986 11 were committed with legally acquired weapons.

And you're telling me that restricting the type of weapons sold, or regulating who can legally own guns, or regulating how they can be stored.. none of that is going to cut down on the number of gun deaths in the US? You can talk about fucking Al Capone all you want but Adam Lanza got his guns from his mother's closet.

The fact is that there are "the bad guys" out there just like on tv, illegally acquiring guns for the purpose committing crimes and so on. There are also thousands of idiots out there who, in a moment or two of anger or panic or just stupidity, end someone's life because it was as easy as going into their closet or night stand or glove box or because they didn't have their safety on or.. blah blah blah.
To all of the above...what do you suppose committing murder or shooting an innocent bystander or leaving your firearms for innocent children to blow away their little buddies makes one????

That's right that would make you a criminal who doesn't respect the law. Who doesn't respect the rights they are born with.

And who should be held accountable for his actions...

as an aside, those stats where it says legally obtainable or acquired guns...do they bother to point out the difference between a gun that can be legally acquired and a legally acquirable gun with its numbers filed off...a slight difference don't you think?

User avatar
Topper
CC Legend
Posts: 9876
Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: Earth, most days.

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by Topper » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:08 pm

Yes I do agree with a right to own these semi automatic guns with high capacity magazines. I am not naive enough to believe that the two seconds it takes to switch magazines would slow the shooter down. I also realize that enforcing existing laws should take precedent over passing new ones.

Both Connecticut and New York have some of the strictest gun laws in the US. California has the most stringent.

The biggest problem with the deciding who is eligible for permits is the databases are a mess. Cross referencing mentally or criminal records is a disaster. California has decided to tackle the issue and last year took over 2,000 fire arms away from people ineligible to possess.
With the nation once again facing a horrific mass shooting and renewing conversations about gun control, the California Attorney General’s Office announced Tuesday it had taken more than 2,000 firearms away from prohibited users in the state over the last year.

Utilizing the Armed Prohibited Persons System database, agents from the California Department of Justice seized 2,033 firearms, 117,000 rounds of ammunition, and 11,072 illegal high capacity magazines from prohibited individuals between Jan. 1 to Nov. 30 of this year.

The APPS database cross-references five databases to find people who legally purchased handguns and registered assault weapons since 1996 with people who are prohibited from owning or possessing firearms. The database was completed in November 2006, and the first statewide sweep was conducted in 2007.

The people in the system prohibited from possessing guns include convicted felons, individuals with active restraining orders, and those determined to be mentally unstable.

“California has clear laws determining who can possess firearms based on their threat to public safety,” said Attorney General Kamala Harris. “Enforcing those laws is crucial because we have seen the terrible tragedies that occur when guns are in the wrong hands. This program is an important part of our law enforcement work and I thank all of the agents who work so hard every day to keep our communities safe.”

The majority of firearms were seized during two 6-week sweeps. The first statewide sweep targeted individuals prohibited because of mental health issues and the second focused on people with legally registered assault weapons who were later prohibited from owning them.

In 2011, Attorney General Harris sponsored legislation to increase funding for the Department of Justice’s APPS program through the use of existing regulatory fees collected by gun dealers. Senate Bill 819 passed in June 2011 and became law on Jan. 1.

California is the first and only state in the nation to establish an automated system for tracking handgun and assault weapon owners who might fall into a prohibited status.
http://www.turlockjournal.com/section/15/article/17999/
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.

I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.

User avatar
Uncle dans leg
CC Legend
Posts: 5142
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by Uncle dans leg » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:33 pm

So the "right to bare arms" wasn't about T-shirts?
nobody forks...with the jesus

User avatar
Blob Mckenzie
CC Legend
Posts: 11423
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:34 pm
Location: Oakalla

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by Blob Mckenzie » Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:47 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Dude is the Dana Murzyn of the board.
Since you're so interested...

Oh btw I liked Murzyn, he was stand up...

And he spent most of the time on his ass when he got into a debate (errrrr....... a fight) Sound familiar ?

People aren't saying " ban guns they are bad " or whatever that drivel you spewed was. People are saying outlaw the automatic weapons that allow some cat to squeeze off 100 bullets per minute. There's no fucking need for it. If buddy wants to make it rain in the bush then to to a fucking gun shop and go nuts. I happen to know of a good one in Vegas . It's like owning a fucking pitbull for these people, just to say they got the biggest most bad ass dog around. Pitbulls should be shot on site imho.

Blame it on the govt. and the gun companies. The only people who should have access to these types of weapons are the fucking military.
TRY TO FOCUS ON HOW MY ASS TASTES IN ONE YEAR

User avatar
Strangelove
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 17603
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: Lake Vostok

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by Strangelove » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:11 pm

Per wrote: homicide levels [in the UK] are just a third of what they are in the USA
Again with the stats eh? :hmmm:

Okay you asked for it, a little more perspective....

(right-click on the graphs and open them in a new window)

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/12/ ... media.html

Image

Of the 206 countries in the world, USA is #103.

Middle of the pack y'might say. :drink:

Some other interesting stats from that article:
In over 52% of the murders in the US in 2011 in which the race of the murderer was known, the murderer was black. Over half of the victims of murder were also black. But blacks are only 13.6% of the population. Put all that together, and the murder rate in the US for non-blacks was more like 2.6 per 100,000 in 2011.

As Peter Baldwin put it in his book, The Narcissism of Minor Differences, "Take out the black underclass from the statistics, and even American murder rates fall to European levels."
Interesting, no?

But far most interesting of all is the following:

Statistics indicate a more heavily armed population tends to go hand-in-hand with LESS murder!

Oh it's true....
Image

Data sources: UNODC and the Small Arms Survey

To the eyeball, it looks like a more heavily armed population goes hand-in-hand with less murder, as an average. The statistics bear that out: the correlation coefficient is negative, -0.23, and it is statistically significant.

You can look for various trends, but there is no evidence here that the availability of guns leads to more murders. Two of the most heavily armed countries, Finland and Switzerland, have murder rates of 2.2 and 0.7, among the lowest in the world. On the other hand, every country with a murder rate at least 5 times greater than the U.S.'s has at least 5 times fewer firearms per person than the U.S.
So yeah, statistically speaking, you want less murder in your country?

Hand out more guns to the general population!

HAPPY, you stat-loving sunnuva you-know-wot?!!
____
GO CANUCKS GO!!!

User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Legend
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by ukcanuck » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:25 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
Dude is the Dana Murzyn of the board.
Since you're so interested...

Oh btw I liked Murzyn, he was stand up...
And he spent most of the time on his ass when he got into a debate (errrrr....... a fight) Sound familiar ?
If he spent a lot of time on his ass it must have worked for him, Dana murzyn had a long NHL career, played for three teams, won a stanley cup. Cleared out the front of the net and stood up for his teammates... I'll take that :)
People aren't saying " ban guns they are bad " or whatever that drivel you spewed was. People are saying outlaw the automatic weapons that allow some cat to squeeze off 100 bullets per minute.
maybe you aren't saying ban all the guns but plenty of people are...
There's no fucking need for it.
you are right and there is also no need to spray a room with a 600 rounds when 30 will do... one could do as much damage with firearms that people don't want to ban. you know like a shotgun and a couple of handguns or revolvers...

granted an automatic with a large clip would be a lot more gruesome but dead is dead...
If buddy wants to make it rain in the bush then to to a fucking gun shop and go nuts. I happen to know of a good one in Vegas . It's like owning a fucking pitbull for these people, just to say they got the biggest most bad ass dog around. Pitbulls should be shot on site imho.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you want to characterize me as always on my ass on the this board, you see things in so black and white....I don't particularly want firearms to be so easily available that any Tom, Dick, or Harry can walk into Walmart on a whim and buy a military grade assault rifle and head down to the local school... What I am saying is that the people... responsible, law abiding, grown up citizens of the Republic of the United States of America have a constitutional right to bear arms and right that cannot be infringed upon. whatever solution you want has to respect that. Obviously I am not American but if I were, I would not be giving that right up easily.
Blame it on the govt. and the gun companies. The only people who should have access to these types of weapons are the fucking military.
lemme ask you something?
I don't know how many guns there are in the hands of ordinary Canadians, but what if the ratio was the same as for the States and there were 40 million private firearms in Canada and any one of those 'referendums" Quebec keeps holding finally actually passes in their favour... Do you think that either the Feds or the national assembly in Quebec would have to take that fact into consideration when dividing the country's assets up? or would you prefer to let the politicians decide for you free of such consequence?
Last edited by ukcanuck on Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Strangelove
Moderator & MVP
Moderator & MVP
Posts: 17603
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:13 pm
Location: Lake Vostok

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by Strangelove » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:48 pm

RoyalDude wrote: Looks like one of Topper and Strangelove's brethren let loose the hounds on a couple unsuspecting fireman, killing them both and injuring a few others with the same make and calibre rifle as the one used by Lanza. The carnage, THE CARNAGE!. MAKE IT STOP! continues and continues and continues. What I don't get, this dude here spent 17 years in jail for a previous murder, how the fuck did this nutbar get a hold of such killing machines? I will tell you what, it's Toppers and Strangeloves love for lax gun control laws all in the name of the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.
You twisted SOB, stop trying to make it sound like Topper and yours truly are in favour of these shootings.

We all know YOU are the only one at this site who has murder in her heart:
RoyalDude on Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:37 am wrote: Personally, I think we should hand out hunting licenses to non-gun loving people to hunt and kill any NRA member around the world they see fit. The NRA wants guns? How about putting them on the receiving end of them?
Well you and your “pizano” (no-doubt) pal Dangler! :lol:

You 2 you-know-wots are part of the reason good guys like Topper and I should have the right to arm ourselves. :mex:
____
GO CANUCKS GO!!!

User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Legend
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: Booth kills baited bear

Post by ukcanuck » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:56 pm

Strangelove wrote:
You twisted SOB, stop trying to make it sound like Topper and yours truly are in favour of these shootings.
I hate that shit, people do that a lot around here, and not just on this issue either...

Post Reply