There will be a strike

Welcome to the main forum of our site. Anything and everything to do with the Vancouver Canucks is dicussed and debated here.

Moderator: Referees

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Benjo » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:51 am

So the NHL is compiling twitter statements and media comments to provide proof the players are only using the DOI as a negotiating tool, so Ian White shoots his mouth off this morning about how the PA is using the DOI as a negotiating tool.

Image
Benjo
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:39 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:46 am

Per wrote:
Fred wrote: Rather than buy a NHL franchise just investing your down payment you can do a lot better by simply investing. Think if you invested in gold 10 years ago would that be better or worse than buying a NHL team.

Hockey is not about making money, it's about winning cups! :hmmm:


To the guy that has to bank roll the franchise it better be about money first and fore most or he'll soon find himself in the hands of a bankruptcy court. Risk manement, is what it's about !! Only one cup issued every season the chnaces are 30-1 you loose not great odds, for some it's just a hope they'll be back next season. ;)
cheers
Fred
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:52 pm

Fred wrote:
Per wrote:
Fred wrote: Rather than buy a NHL franchise just investing your down payment you can do a lot better by simply investing. Think if you invested in gold 10 years ago would that be better or worse than buying a NHL team.

Hockey is not about making money, it's about winning cups! :hmmm:


To the guy that has to bank roll the franchise it better be about money first and fore most or he'll soon find himself in the hands of a bankruptcy court. Risk manement, is what it's about !! Only one cup issued every season the chnaces are 30-1 you loose not great odds, for some it's just a hope they'll be back next season. ;)

Isnt it really about speculation?

I mean your analogy about gold, gold is currency and a solid investment, but you cant buy it with IOUs, it takes hard cash to buy gold.

Sports Franchises are high risk to begin with but are not about hard cash, their value is speculative and the money that is used to purchase it is on paper too. when you talk about risk you seem to confuse real risk- losing hard currency real assets, with speculative risk, paper assets...

I guess I dont see where its written that a guy extending a pile of paper and handshake promises as collateral deserves the same return as buy gold with cash money on the barrel.

oh and is it always about making money??

what about using a loss in one of your business to write off profits in another part?
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby the Dogsalmon » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:02 pm

Karl,Josef and UK???
User avatar
the Dogsalmon
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:12 am
Location: in the ainus

Re: There will be a strike

Postby herb » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:26 pm

ukcanuck wrote:what about using a loss in one of your business to write off profits in another part?


Just one factual interjection.

You talk out of your derriere a lot, so I'm not really surprised, but this is not at all how corporate taxation works.

Carry on bickering amongst yourselves. NHL and NHLPA can suck it.
User avatar
herb
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 3:17 pm
Location: Mars

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:35 pm

Sports Franchises are high risk to begin with but are not about hard cash, their value is speculative and the money that is used to purchase it is on paper too. when you talk about risk you seem to confuse real risk- losing hard currency real assets, with speculative risk, paper assets...


I can't believe any one wrote that. It doesn't matter how you raise your equity YOU MUST put up and risk assets of equal value. NO one gives you money. You might use for instance your house ( i don't advise it ) but it must be clear of debt, or a first call for it and to be used and if it or your franchise fails there must be assets available for the bank to re-possess. If you fail with your mortgage payment guess what...the bank takes back your house and you're on the street. A wise man manages his risk like it was gold. When you come to the time for your pay cheque you expect to be paid, the same goes for the players, the city council with it's taxes, the Cdn/USA Government the popcorn salesman, etc etc No one is doing this for nothing. Is this union think, money is free some how "these business managemnt type" just defraud and steal money. Let me say this a business man is not abusiness man long if he has a history of failure. Remember Nelson Skalbania he's an example of some one who didn't manage risk well. Thankfull for you Union pension funds are run by people who manage risk very well and that's also why they don't invest in speculative NHL franchises .....it's a mugs game :lol: :lol:
cheers
Fred
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:38 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:Karl,Josef and UK???

Josef!? Josef wasn't a Marxist...
And neither am I, I just fiulkin hate supporting rich cawck sukkers who fuck with hockey.
You don't here me bitch about sweat shops, out sourcing or importing Chinese workers to steal jobs from Topper and Blob do ya ?
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby the Dogsalmon » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:48 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:Karl,Josef and UK???

Josef!? Josef wasn't a Marxist...
And neither am I, I just fiulkin hate supporting rich cawck sukkers who fuck with hockey.
You don't here me bitch about sweat shops, out sourcing or importing Chinese workers to steal jobs from Topper and Blob do ya ?



didnt say he was...you misread something else into it...again...
User avatar
the Dogsalmon
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:12 am
Location: in the ainus

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Reefer2 » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:52 pm

And the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round.

It still is amazing that they have not figured out both of them have small penises and no ego will make it big.

Put it away and lets get the season started.
User avatar
Reefer2
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:47 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:01 pm

Fred wrote:
I can't believe any one wrote that.

Don't be an asshole, you don't have to take it on faith I did write it, it's right in front of you :)


It doesn't matter how you raise your equity YOU MUST put up and risk assets of equal value. NO one gives you money. You might use for instance your house ( i don't advise it ) but it must be clear of debt, or a first call for it and to be used and if it or your franchise fails there must be assets available for the bank to re-possess.

So you want to buy a sports franchise and its worth .... You say you have the house to put up for collateral, how much is that worth tell me? What you paid for it in cash? What the tax assessor says its worth? what the houses around it are listed at or sold for? Or what it might fetch because you installed gold plated toilets? Seems there is going to be wide variations there...
I'll bet the lender has got some wildly variable interest rates depending on which figure you insist on using ?

You say I'm the idiot here but it seems that logic seems to work all the way up from a BC box to Rogers Arena?




A wise man manages his risk like it was gold.

Is that the same wise man who visited baby Jesus or the one who has the same chance of getting into heaven as a camel does passing through the eye of a needle?
Cause I think Nelson was the latter. ... And you want a system to protect guys like that.



When you come to the time for your pay cheque you expect to be paid, the same goes for the players, the city council with it's taxes, the Cdn/USA Government the popcorn salesman, etc etc No one is doing this for nothing. Is this union think, money is free some how "these business managemnt type" just defraud and steal money.
Let me say this a business man is not abusiness man long if he has a history of failure. Remember Nelson Skalbania he's an example of some one who didn't manage risk well.

Exactly and the players just want the make whole provision that protects the contracts that they signed in good faith and contract terms they received as compensation for accepting the salary cap and the 24 % roll back they gave last time. [/Quote]

Thankfully for you Union pension funds are run by people who manage risk very well and that's also why they don't invest in speculative NHL franchises .....it's a mugs game :lol: :lol:

You mean like the Ontario teachers union that invested and made out pretty good with the leafs, or not like that?
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:03 pm

the Dogsalmon wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:
the Dogsalmon wrote:Karl,Josef and UK???

Josef!? Josef wasn't a Marxist...
And neither am I, I just fiulkin hate supporting rich cawck sukkers who fuck with hockey.
You don't here me bitch about sweat shops, out sourcing or importing Chinese workers to steal jobs from Topper and Blob do ya ?



didnt say he was...you misread something else into it...again...


sigh ....
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:05 pm

herb wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:what about using a loss in one of your business to write off profits in another part?


Just one factual interjection.

You talk out of your derriere a lot, so I'm not really surprised, but this is not at all how corporate taxation works.

Carry on bickering amongst yourselves. NHL and NHLPA can suck it.

Well how does it work then ?

Why do some corporations run some things at a loss deliberately?
User avatar
ukcanuck
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 2307
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:04 am

Re: There will be a strike

Postby the Dogsalmon » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:14 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
herb wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:what about using a loss in one of your business to write off profits in another part?


Just one factual interjection.

You talk out of your derriere a lot, so I'm not really surprised, but this is not at all how corporate taxation works.

Carry on bickering amongst yourselves. NHL and NHLPA can suck it.

Well how does it work then ?

Why do some corporations run some things at a loss deliberately?



i dont think CRA allows you to deliberately lose monies...i believe they can disallow certain exemptions if your goal is to lose money and not make profits or at least break even...
User avatar
the Dogsalmon
CC 1st Team All-Star
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:12 am
Location: in the ainus

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:26 pm

The Ontario Teachers Union, interesting they invested not in Florida or Columbus but in the biggest and best supported team in the NHL ....and then get this .... they got the Hell out of it !! They managed their risk !! and put their money in what they considered a better risk ....I call that smart. It must be tough being so left wing and giving up your union dues to a Capitalist to manage for you :D

Exactly and the players just want the make whole provision that protects the contracts that they signed in good faith and contract terms they received as compensation for accepting the salary cap and the 24 % roll back they gave last time.


And still they made more money ( that's what those players do ) than they ever, ever, ever has been made in the game history and frankly who's to say they won't do that again. When Linden had the smarts to step in as President of the PA he did his brothers well but there was still a bunch of luddites telling him he was a fool, because it brought to an end the blood sport of contract negotiations :D I wonder if Chelios ever thanked Linden probably not.

Is that the same wise man who visited baby Jesus or the one who has the same chance of getting into heaven as a camel does passing through the eye of a needle?
Cause I think Nelson was the latter. ... And you want a system to protect guys like that.


that's the whole point, the NHL like it or not has come a long way since those days. They are trying to make the sport more attractive to eliminate the Skalbanias of the world and put ALL the teams on a sound financial footing, so we don't have any more Cleveland Barons walking away and leaving others holding the bag or like the WHA. Players lost their money, Cities lost their money....every one lost money. Why would you oppose that. Who knows if they can turn the corner and make it more viable maybe they will expand and more jobs for your poor hard done by brothers. But you can not do that the way the game is right now. They can't find healthy investors and they don't want any more Skalbania. They could have sold Phx for pennies in the dollar but they're holding out, suffering losses ( NHL ) and make sure it's the right investor with a workable plan. That costs money UK big Money
cheers
Fred
CC Legend
 
Posts: 3433
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 7:00 pm

Re: There will be a strike

Postby Per » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:33 pm

Any one who invests in a sport franchise to make money is an idiot.

Normally the team owners made their money rlsewhere and then buy a team either for kicks or to raise their public image.
Look at eg the Emir of Qatar that bought Paris Saint Germain and now seems willing to pay ludicrous amounts to fill the roster with talent well above what is expected in France. He'll never make a penny out of this, but he is drawing attention to Qatar, which is what it's all about. That's why he founded AlJazeera, the only Arab language network that will let all sides state their opoinion, and which played a huge part in what has become known as the Arab Spring. That's also why they will host the FIFA World Cup.

Qatar is a minute country surrounded by hostile autocratic neighbours (Saudi Arabia and Iran), and the Emir has decided that the best way to survive is to make sure every one knows who you are.

Why do you think Thai ex-prime ministers and Russian oil billionaires buy British teams? Why does Berlusconi own Milan?
To make money? Think again. To keep their names in the lime light and to earn goodwill.

Sports are not about money, they are about winning, or at least be perceived as a winner, or contender.
Then you use that goodwill in your regular line of business, where the real money is.
User avatar
Per
CC Hall of Fan Member
 
Posts: 1773
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 am

PreviousNext

Return to Canucks Corner Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot] and 5 guests