There will be a strike

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:52 am

Tciso wrote:
What's the issue? Scottie's left-wing knee-jerk belief in unions and sticking it to the man, and covering his own ass obviously superceed Hamrlik's belief in having his own opinion, getting paid fairly and just playing the damned game, and not costing 1/3 of the players their only or last year in the league. :?

The sheep mentality of guys like Hartnell amazes me, but we see it in the holier than thou Left all the time.


Some one usually tries to roast me for letting my personal biases cloud my posts and dominate my language like this Tciso :)

Lucky for you CC is short on mouthy lefties at the moment...

Can't wait for election time and Clarke v Dix

Just sayin...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:02 am

Hartnell continues to reflect the nonsense notion that the players are somehow owed something from past CBAs.

While the players are looking to the past, the owners are looking to the future.

The vague threats to Hamrlik set the union movement back 80 years to a time when owners would have hired thugs to kneecap the likes of Scottie...........hmmmmmmmmm.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Arachnid » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:10 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Tciso wrote:
What's the issue? Scottie's left-wing knee-jerk belief in unions and sticking it to the man, and covering his own ass obviously superceed Hamrlik's belief in having his own opinion, getting paid fairly and just playing the damned game, and not costing 1/3 of the players their only or last year in the league. :?

The sheep mentality of guys like Hartnell amazes me, but we see it in the holier than thou Left all the time.


Some one usually tries to roast me for letting my personal biases cloud my posts and dominate my language like this Tciso :)

Lucky for you CC is short on mouthy lefties at the moment...

Can't wait for election time and Clarke v Dix

Just sayin...


Are you kidding me? A guy who makes 4 million dollars a year and puts the low wage earners out of work for a work stoppage but says he's a team guy first..... calling him a lefty or pro union is like Kim Jong-ung being called the left nut of Stalin.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/11 ... t-for-15m/

Yeah, union brothers are all about the equal distribution of wealth....give me a fucking break....
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:49 am

Its a union Fred, would you be happy if Hamrlik was your employee and was running his mouth about you his boss?


You really just don't get it, unions, those of the left wing persuasion are supposed to foster every ones opinion. Often that's how change comes about some one speaks up and suddenly every one thinks, that's a good idea. and away you go. By stifling, shutting down, threatening violence does not paint the picture they want. Hartnel is an idiot and by acting as a bully or muscle man for the union does the entire process a disfavour. You can try and gloss it over but tactics like Hartnel uses are what gives unions rightfully a bad bad name. think baseball bats and arsen.

You know UK my father was a trade union man. Right after WW2 the electricians union was taken over by the communists and those that didn't toe the communist party line were "sent to Coventary" by the entire membership ( some thing similar to the midnight calls Stalin introduced with such great effect ). It resulted in more than a few suicides . I'll never forget that and I know it sure chnaged the way my father looked at unionism. Apparently nothing has changed and you're applauding it :scowl:
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:53 am

Topper wrote:Hartnell continues to reflect the nonsense notion that the players are somehow owed something from past CBAs.

Do you mean being upset over this past one where they got taken for a 24percent roll back without so much as a reach around...

which looks like exactly what owners just got their shite in knot over this time incidentally,

Or

Do you mean the constant trench war between management and labour in general?

Because neither really are that nonsensical.

While the players are looking to the past, the owners are looking to the future.

Yeah it's looking better and better for the owners with every CBA, its no wonder they look to the future.
If its up to them it will always be better for the owners and the players, well if they do okay out of it that's a collateral plus I guess...

The vague threats to Hamrlik set the union movement back 80 years to a time when owners would have hired thugs to kneecap the likes of Scottie...........hmmmmmmmmm.

You should be happy, this time the threats are against a player....
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby herb » Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:10 pm

Fred wrote:You know UK my father was a trade union man. Right after WW2 the electricians union was taken over by the communists and those that didn't toe the communist party line were "sent to Coventary" by the entire membership ( some thing similar to the midnight calls Stalin introduced with such great effect ). It resulted in more than a few suicides . I'll never forget that and I know it sure chnaged the way my father looked at unionism. Apparently nothing has changed and you're applauding it :scowl:


My father is a management guy.

When I was a kid, we lived up north for a while. At the time, that town had three major employers. My father was in management at the one company which did not have any unionized employees. The other two were hardcore, screw managemenet, union shops.

Like most private employers in the modern era, my dad's company wanted to attract and retain the best. It was an incredibly safe operation. They treated their employees very well. People wanted to work there. People moved from all over to work there because it was a highly regarded company.

Every once in a while, a union boss would organize a big to-do to try to convince the employees to unionize. The employees would vote, and the union boss would get crushed. Intimidation, or at least attempts, took place. Unionized "brothers" looked down at the guys who worked for my dad's company. It was really strange. Unions, to me, seemed very much a tribal thing.

Unions had their place, and in many instances still do. These days, workers have a lot of lattitude to work where they please for the wage they want.

I think professional athletes, wearing their designer shades while driving six figure vehicles, look pretty stupid wearing the union colours. They look especially stupid when they try to drape the CAW flag over their shoulders as "brothers in solidarity" as Fehr attempted the other day.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:01 pm

Fred wrote:
Its a union Fred, would you be happy if Hamrlik was your employee and was running his mouth about you his boss?


You really just don't get it, unions, those of the left wing persuasion are supposed to foster every ones opinion. Often that's how change comes about some one speaks up and suddenly every one thinks, that's a good idea. and away you go. By stifling, shutting down, threatening violence does not paint the picture they want. Hartnel is an idiot and by acting as a bully or muscle man for the union does the entire process a disfavour. You can try and gloss it over but tactics like Hartnel uses are what gives unions rightfully a bad bad name. think baseball bats and arsen.

You know UK my father was a trade union man. Right after WW2 the electricians union was taken over by the communists and those that didn't toe the communist party line were "sent to Coventary" by the entire membership ( some thing similar to the midnight calls Stalin introduced with such great effect ). It resulted in more than a few suicides . I'll never forget that and I know it sure chnaged the way my father looked at unionism. Apparently nothing has changed and you're applauding it :scowl:

I'm not supporting anything that results in suicides, what I'm saying is that Unions exist to protect the collective. Without the security of numbers unscrupulous managers and owners will take advantage by divide and conquer and don't you think that Hamrliks comments give the impression of a divided ship and threaten Fehr's bargaining position. If you take the emotion out of it Roman hurts the cause... He might be Sent to Coventry in this day and age, but we are talking about food on the table here ...( not literally but figuratively)


Herb, smart managers like your dad probably realized that if they didn't pay better and have a good working relationship with their employees then unions would step in so seems like job done on that score.

Btw where is the outrage at the owners for offering a one time deal and them pulling it saying having Fehr in the room is a deal breaker....that's dirty pool by any standard.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:06 pm

When you think about it Herb, it's the only way to tret people, fairly. The problem with unions is they're stuck in the you against us concept, the thirties. There was and maybe still is a place for unions, but not the current model. They're still in the thirties run by the guy with the biggest mouth.

Because of their obstinate the unions are loosing ground, another state , Michigan passed a right to work legislation. I believe that makes some thing like 30 states that have passed that mandate and Ontario is sniffing around it now.

For the life of me I can't see the argument the PA is putting up, they're costing their membership millions which they will never recover and deals with the idividual players who negotiated directly with the team owner/GM. They are making more money now than in the entire history the league. What's not to like. The term of the agreement is fundamental to the future of the game, why do they want to shorten it. Many players if this season is a complete loss will never make it back, their careers over. I honestly don't understand and UK's workers of the world unite comments just make it look worse rather than explain any thing. I'm not sure if he's British raised or a return Cdn but the old class system still thriving in England seems to have hit him pretty hard, how that translates to the NHLPA I have no idea. God knows you never hear squeak from the football players in England they have the sense to know they're on a good thing
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Topper » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:37 pm

While you're talking family, grandfather owned a fish packing company he started in the 1920's, his comment on unions was, if a company is doing its job, there is no need for the workers to unionize.

My father was an IWA lifer, he got into trouble late in his career because he'd show up 1/2 hr early and load trucks before clocking in. He realized the much younger truckers, paid by the trip, could get an extra trip in a day if he did that. He thought younger guys with young families and mortgages could use the break. He thought similarly when it came to layoffs as the mills in Vancouver were being phased out. Give the old guys early retirement and let the young guys keep working. Apparently union socialism doesn't work that way.

Sister was a BCTel lifer who wouldn't get off her ass to photocopy her own documents because it wasn't in her job description, her husband is a longshoreman, he's been milking compo for a year now.

It only highlights how out of step Fehr is with his CAW speech over the weekend.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Strangelove » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:59 pm

The average NHLer earns more money in one year than the average union worker earns in a lifetime.

NHLers are one-percenters (upper-end of dat dere) as are the owners.

All class-struggle, food-on-the-table conversation is off-topic.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Arachnid » Wed Dec 12, 2012 3:30 pm

Strangelove wrote:The average NHLer earns more money in one year than the average union worker earns in a lifetime.

NHLers are one-percenters (upper-end of dat dere) as are the owners.

All class-struggle, food-on-the-table conversation is off-topic.


Exactly, now lets talk about the oh so hard done by owners who are businessmen. If you run your business right, you make a profit, if you lose money, you should get out of that business, now if you don't give a shit if you make money or not because it's not your core business then obviously you don't give a fuck about the fans and the little people who make their living off the NHL.

Time to make the fans have a say in the game. Without us, they are nothing.

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby BurningBeard » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:18 pm

Topper wrote:It only highlights how out of step Fehr is with his CAW speech over the weekend.


He had to give a shout out to Buzz and his CAW buddies. How do you think he got his job in the first place? :lol:

Firing Paul Kelly was probably one of the worst decisions the NHLPA has made since hiring Alan Eagleson. In my mind it laid the path to the present situation.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:24 pm

Arachnid wrote:
Strangelove wrote:The average NHLer earns more money in one year than the average union worker earns in a lifetime.

NHLers are one-percenters (upper-end of dat dere) as are the owners.

All class-struggle, food-on-the-table conversation is off-topic.


Exactly, now lets talk about the oh so hard done by owners who are businessmen. If you run your business right, you make a profit, if you lose money, you should get out of that business, now if you don't give a shit if you make money or not because it's not your core business then obviously you don't give a fuck about the fans and the little people who make their living off the NHL.

Time to make the fans have a say in the game. Without us, they are nothing.

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I assume you're referring to the owners who put up multi millions to have a franchise and then loose money annually after that :lol: I can't think of many players who play a season and end up owing money at the end of the season
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:25 am

ukcanuck wrote:
Can't wait for election time and Clarke v Dix

Just sayin...


Why the hell would you care about a provinicial election in a province you don't live in ?

Most of the people I talk to are terrified about the NDP returning to power. They drove the province into the toilet during the 90's causing droves of businesses and people to flee BC en masse.

I for one am not looking forward to seeing my provincial income tax skyrocket and seeing no improvement in services , hospital lineups or employment. I guess we will get a bloated govt, more pandering to the unions, maybe some more fast ferries, handouts to the welfare slobs and a smaller paycheque. Maybe the janitors at the hospitals can get back to being paid like skilled tradesmen despite the fact they are pretty much unskilled. Only in the NDP world can a janitor make $35 an hour.

No idea why the hell someone who lives 5000 miles away is so full of glee about seeing a province get shitcanned again.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Arachnid » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:55 am

Fred wrote:
Arachnid wrote:
Strangelove wrote:The average NHLer earns more money in one year than the average union worker earns in a lifetime.

NHLers are one-percenters (upper-end of dat dere) as are the owners.

All class-struggle, food-on-the-table conversation is off-topic.


Exactly, now lets talk about the oh so hard done by owners who are businessmen. If you run your business right, you make a profit, if you lose money, you should get out of that business, now if you don't give a shit if you make money or not because it's not your core business then obviously you don't give a fuck about the fans and the little people who make their living off the NHL.

Time to make the fans have a say in the game. Without us, they are nothing.

Stakeholders!



I assume you're referring to the owners who put up multi millions to have a franchise and then loose money annually after that :lol: I can't think of many players who play a season and end up owing money at the end of the season


We have a lot of small businesses that come and go in our neighbourhood. Some are good people. They open a business to make a living, a profit. It's a trendy, high rent place where dreams die fast or thrive.
Some businesses are gone within months of opening. You almost feel bad for them.
But the reality of it is....they are dumbasses.
They never had a business plan, they never thought it through and they made bad choices.
THE OWNERS ARE THE ONES THAT GAVE OUT THOSE LUDICROUSLY LARGE CONTRACTS
And you want to put this all on the players?
They are both greedy and the fans are the ones that are paying for it now and in the future.
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