There will be a strike

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:50 am

Fred wrote:Well "little guy " or "closest thing to a little guy" is splitting hairs IMO both give the same impression ...David and Goliath.

If you want to couch it those terms and get bent about it go ahead, but for me its relative. what's really the difference here, its still about squeezing payroll to increase profits. Its the same old same old dressed up in bigger numbers and to me pushing down wages to increase profits is not fair and how we get to outsourcing and everything being built in Taiwan.


The deal that they all bitched about in unison with when they signed the last CBA was the best thing that happened to them.


We don't know what the average contract would be worth now in an open market like it was before the cap. Speculate away but if the right wing mantra that free markets, free enterprise and capitalism always is the best answer then the salary cap is more like soviet style centralised production than anything else.

I don't think this is a time to moan about poor us. You made more than you should and now that's going to be addressed. Man up and understand you made out like bandits to the detriment to many teams ...hence the current philosophy, "they ain't do that to us again" by the owners/ Who can blame them. Personally I'd like to see a few less teams...hows that sit with the workers of the world unite brigade ...poor us

This where the owners lose support across the board, its their incompetence that has them in this mess not the players. All the players have done is take the best deal they can, the right to sell to the highest bidder is something we go to wars to protect for everyone else. The owners want a smaller payroll? stop handing out 100 million dollar contracts... It's not collusion to be smart for gods sake. Nashville has a small payroll and they are competitive and they draw fans...It can be done... so go do it and stop whining about can't run a popsicle stand in the heat of summer.

When prices are low, sure take a gamble. This may come as a surprise to you but the World is in a recession. Now is not the time enter for business as a whole to expand .....hence the recession. Now is the time for survival tactics. If it was such a great time to buy why doesn't the PA invest some of their billions they're holding in their pension plan ....according to you it's a slam dunk to make profits. Buy the Blues they're on Sale right now.

Recession... what is so recessionary about RECORD 3.3 billion dollar revenues? what's so recessionary about the franchise values at an all time high?

btw I don't think its a slam sunk to make money with an NHL franchise but I dont think there should be a guarantee to prevent bad management either...

Yeah right they might want to appear as country "little guys" but the reality they understand and you are willing to totally overlook is entertainment will be the first to suffer if the recession continues or more likely worsen/ It's run on some thing called disposable income and many homes and companies do have any of that pixie dust. I liked in when the PA actually asked for a fixed lump sum rather than a percentage ...this falls into the category of stupid and they understand that disposable income is shrinking. So hey give us the cash and no we don't want any of the risk ...thank you very much. It does show however their infantile strategy.
if that theory is true, why then in the worst economy in the world since the thirties has entertainment investment gone straight up? everywhere I look on a personal level its all brand new and twice as expensive sports, movies, travel, toys, all are bigger better brighter and more prolific now than they have ever been...spending crunch? dont see it myself.

Now after refusing to agree on a new CBA they want their lost income replaced, where do they gets this from. They seem to come from the same school as the socilaists in Greece, having sucked on the big t!t and driven the country ( some franchises ) into the dirt complain when the day of reckoning inevitable rolls around. All they can think of is we want more.

its called a contract is a contract is a contract... you sign one you expect to live with it good or bad...

I guess you can gather I'm not over enamoured with the PA stance. I hope the season is written off...it seems inevitable, and it saves me around $5000 plus I have a holiday booked for the month of February :D call me when they come to their senses and reality creeps in

yeah we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this issue, but if I agreed with you, we would both be wrong :) :)
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Arachnid » Sun Dec 02, 2012 12:00 pm

Ahahahahahahahaa...Iove the very end...

http://vimeo.com/54681065#

You know what? We have met the enemy and he is us.

This isn't about Owners versus players. This strike is because of the stupid fans.

I mean really, we just sit back and take anything they give us.

Stupid rule or non-rule changes that make the game worse.

Inconsistent refereeing

Higher ticket prices

Supporting the dilution of the game being in non-hockey markets

Longer seasons

Strike after strike

You, we, are all dumbasses.

Seriously, we should be boycotting every company that chooses to advertise with the NHL.

WE pay their fucking salaries.

They only exist because us.

WITHOUT us they are nothing.

I don't know how I will react when they come back and grace us with their awesome presence but I won't be buying anymore new merchandise until I see something that resembles the game I fell in love with.

I'm going to make a list of who not to buy from and then share it and send messages to the companies why I will not support a company that supports an piece of shit league that clearly does not care about the fans or the small businesses and people that have lost their livings because they rely on the NHL to generate revenue.

Fuck them I say...if I have to watch one more OD chick flick or read about Rob Ford I'ma gonna go ballistic.... :evil:
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Sun Dec 02, 2012 1:23 pm

You know UK I consider myself a lefty in heart and a righty in the head. You can't help but believe many social issues are overlooked by the right wingers. I'm willing to share and help others in need. But Unions are the colossal mill stone around the left wing parties. Auto workers making $80 / hour, Hockey players making millions and then ....surprise surprise take umbrage if they're called on it as though it is now a God given right. Unions were initially a necessity, it restored a balance between powerful business and the guy that was pulling on the rope. But it's now completely political supporting political goals rather than looking after their members. I was a union member at one time. But here's the reason why, I was free to make my own choice if I joined or not I was not bludgeon by those that insisted i couldn't work unless I was a member. And by the way even the UK, once a bastion of unionism no longer demands union membership to have a job or work. Unions cannot be considered democratic

Auto workers unions ,amongst others, did as much damage in ensuring work be sent overseas as the companies that followed that route. Not only that but the unions also invested their pension plans into the companies that moved overseas ie they supported the move !!

Unions are not democratic. They, NHLPA, frankly express no concern about the players that will have retirement shoved down their throats. Just like the old union organizers using a baseball bat to enforce solidarity the PA members like to prevent open discussion and impart fear regarding any one opening their mouths.

The NHLPA members have completely lost sight that they are paid multi millions for playing a game they love, there's not many other brothers that can say that. No concern or side about their union brothers forced out of work by their actions, it's simply greed before every thing. They like to dress it up as a moral fight ...it isn't it's greed first and foremost. What ever you might say about the owners ...they're the ones that take 100% of the risk and put up countless millions to promote and develop the league. The players take no such risk ( they're insured up to their eye balls ...by guess who free enterprise ) and evem in the minimum make enough is one season that should ensure a good standard of living for the rest of their life's and if they invest wisely can continue to compound that salary ( investing in the business world you so abhor ) to finally fall from their perch a lot wealthier than when they were born. To me that sounds like a winner :D :D
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Benjo » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:35 am

I love how it is taking a week just to agree to terms to come to a meeting that will probably have both sides walking away and shaking their heads within 15 minutes.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Potatoe1 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:20 am

Fred wrote:
The NHLPA members have completely lost sight that they are paid multi millions for playing a game they love, there's not many other brothers that can say that. No concern or side about their union brothers forced out of work by their actions, it's simply greed before every thing.



Yeah I dont know Fred.

The Owners have yet to make a reasonable offer IMO.

This lock out was supposed to be about making the industry more profitable as a whole, and to that end all the owners really needed was to keep the same system with a shrinking players share. A little tightening on ELC's and back diving contracts would have also been part of any reasonable solution.

They dont need to get to 50% in the time line they have proposed and they dont need the extreme changes to free agency and contract rules that they have also proposed.

The owners position is entirely draconian and has angered the players to such a degree that they a willing to lose millions just on principle.

Have a look at the Forbes numbers. Drop 7% off the players share and the league as a whole is right in line with other industries in terms of profitability. Bump up revenue sharing a bit and all of a sudden the majority of teams are quite profitable, and the losses of the teams that aren't are quite sustainable.

As soon as the league started asking for give backs on contracting issues such as free agency and arbitration, the thing started going off the rails. If anything the league should have offered to lower the age of free agency as a give back for the move to 50%.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:11 pm

Oh I think there is little doubt that the owners have fault lines to. And the Draconian model was brought about by who, Eagelson or the owners. That's the model that both the parties chose in the opening days of the formal NHL / PA getting together. It's sad when you hear some teams wanting the strike to continue because it lessens their losses while other are upset because they're loosing money. It shows the gulf in between. But I think that the philosophy in the US is different to the Cdn philosophy. In the US the business world is much more hard lined. The teams making the profits are reluctant to share the wealth that they have established ie after spending millions on promoting our club and making it successful why should we support the owners that are not doing a lot of promotion sort of argument. Think of the sterling job the Canucks have done. I can recall sitting in the Pacific Coliseum when it was literally half empty, you could sit where you wanted. And now it's one of the best attended teams.... I'm sure a lot of hard work and money went into turning the franchise around.

To me the core of the problem is the NHL ( and lets be honest the players too ) want a US National TV contract. Every one wants the big TV contract, players and owners. To have a National contract you have to be a national sport and that includes force feeding the Sunshine states with hockey. This leads to the gap between have teams and have not teams which leads to the skewed view of the financial viability of the entire league. There's a wide financial divergence between clubs Turning to more Cdn cities is short term and frankly makes the game tougher to sell south of the border, and there goes the money from any national TV contract or the dream of it
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Strangelove » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:48 pm

@wbzsports: WBZ's Steve Burton reports #nhl talks made progress behind closed doors & looks like the season will be salvaged

Colour me over-optimistic but I smell a tentative agreement within days. :mex:

Hang in there Spidey, HANG IN!!! :thumbs:

Trust me, I'm never wrong about these things....

Until then:

____
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Benjo » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:20 pm

Daly is refuting that report already but I will choose to be hopeful.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Boston Canucker » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:31 pm

Just saw Burton reporting this here on the news. He wasn't backing off his claim that a deal could be close. I, too, am too cynical about the process at this point but Burton is no Eklund hide and lie douchebag. He's a real reporter. Hope seems cruel at this point, but we'll see...NHL BOG Meeting Wed.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Arachnid » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:14 am

Thy end is near... 8-)

Oh man, I just don't care anymore, I LOVE THE NOTEBOOK! :whistle:
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Lancer » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:35 am

Boston Canucker wrote:Hope seems cruel at this point, but we'll see...NHL BOG Meeting Wed.


Unless the doves stage a successful revolt and oust the Bettman/Jacobs/Edwards hawk cabal (or make such a thiing a believable threat) at subj. BOG meeting, I don't think this season gets salvaged. Likely, anybody so much as uttering a divergent peep will get shouted out of the room by Jacobs and crew.

That's why I think this owners/players thing is a sham. Having Chipman (the noob owner of a small market team) and Tannenbaum (nice enough guy but MLSE is all profit, all the time) at the meeting is just window dressing. I would be surprised if either of them spoke and said anything off-cue from Jacobs and Edwards.

Stick a fork in'er, folks.
Love the Sport. Love the Team.

Hate the League.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby BurningBeard » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:48 am

I gotta wonder, no mater what ends up happening, if this whole disaster is the beginning of the end for Bettman. The rumors are he set expectations for a "home run" on the owners side, and I doubt that's going to happen. Regardless, don't you at some point need to replace your wartime general with a peacetime general?
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:37 pm

You wonder how the owners have prepared by booking in other events/concerts as an alternative ..I suppose it's some thing like the players playing overseas. Maybe they were given a date to book up until ? You have to wonder how much pain is actually been felt and in some markets maybe they're making more this way than playing hockey :P in the building.

I have to believe there was a plan likely made a year or so ago, maybe by both parties for alternate income
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:00 pm

Fred wrote:You wonder how the owners have prepared by booking in other events/concerts as an alternative ..I suppose it's some thing like the players playing overseas. Maybe they were given a date to book up until ? You have to wonder how much pain is actually been felt and in some markets maybe they're making more this way than playing hockey :P in the building.

I have to believe there was a plan likely made a year or so ago, maybe by both parties for alternate income

Well you figure 40 nights for the season...cirque du soliel, Celine dion, Justin beiber, tractor pull...dog show...comic con.... Crickets....but you know it's okay cause most of the arenas have been paid for by taxpayers anyway...
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Fred » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:30 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Fred wrote:You wonder how the owners have prepared by booking in other events/concerts as an alternative ..I suppose it's some thing like the players playing overseas. Maybe they were given a date to book up until ? You have to wonder how much pain is actually been felt and in some markets maybe they're making more this way than playing hockey :P in the building.

I have to believe there was a plan likely made a year or so ago, maybe by both parties for alternate income

Well you figure 40 nights for the season...cirque du soliel, Celine dion, Justin beiber, tractor pull...dog show...comic con.... Crickets....but you know it's okay cause most of the arenas have been paid for by taxpayers anyway...


Yeah but in most contracts you can't charge the NHL team if (A) the other party does not do every thing to mitigate the losses. (B) they can't charge rental if they're making money by renting out the arena to other parties. One would hope that even community owned facilities are on the ball, Community owned facilities still need to run their facilities to make a profit ( a dirty word I would think for you :wink: )

I have to think that the constant complaint by players that the NHL has a date in mind might have legs
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