I think the point is if we're trying to see it from Israel's point of view, considering the holocaust and the pogroms in Russia and the determination (until recently if you believe it) by the Arabs to annihilate Israel, one shouldn't be surprised by their siege mentality and I'm not sure I blame em either...Island Nucklehead wrote:Not really. Because you have the biggest and baddest bombs your buddies can buy and can inflict 10x the damage and 100x the casualties. You also have a counter-slingshot system that shoots down almost anything coming near your cats/kids. You already have a few bulldozers that you use to clear out pockets of your neighbours yard for your new sheds that you don't have zoning or building permits for, but your buddy is the mayor and has veto powers on all matters before council. It's actually a pretty swanky scenario. The only thing your really worried about is your neighbours neighbour who has a lot more kids with actual BB guns instead of sling shots, and might be inclined to back the rock launchers.ukcanuck wrote:Wouldn't a better analogy be that your neighbour has declared publicly that he will not rest until you are your dead, your family is dead, and that your house be burned down so he can piss on the ashes. He's constantly seen down at the gunship buying, begging, borrowing, and steeling every kind of gun and weapon he can get his hands on. You've seen him over at his other neighbours practicing with pipe bombs and pyro. And his best buddy has been saving up for a bulldozer....Island Nucklehead wrote: It's like your neighbours kid launching rocks from a sling-shot at your house and your response is to pull out the Remington, whack his father, take half his yard as a "slingshot buffer zone", shoot anyone that ventures into your "slingshot buffer zone" and then brag about how measured your response was.
His kid is taking potshots at your windows with his slingshot and you keep having to buy a new cat for your daughter...
The cops are undecided if its really a threat...
And the courts are clogged up years in advance...
What would You do?
It's just way too easy to say Israel should lighten up when we wouldn't have to live with the consequences of being wrong. In other words the margin of error is not worth taking the risk that anything has changed from the Arabs.The alternatives are just more of the same. And realistically, the Arab spring has changed the regional dynamics. American influence isn't what it used to be. Egypt is playing nice for now, but the plight of the Palestinians is a sore spot for most, and with more countries recognizing Hamas, it's going to be a lot harder to ignore them.ukcanuck wrote: I think it would be treasonous for any Israeli leader to agree to a two state solution, an internationally recognized Palestinian sovereign state would then have a legitimate foreign policy and have the right to legally wage war.
Right now Israel doesn't need any permission, excuse, justification, or world opinion, because Gaza is not a nation and Palestine does not have a legal definition. The nation of Palestine on the other hand has legitimacy and makes things a lot more complicated, there just is zero upside for Israel IMO.Not really. If a Palestinian state decided to attack Israel, they would be more than justified (a real self defence scenario under Article 51 of the UN charter) in crushing it using extreme force. There are also numerous groups operating in Gaza, many more extreme than Hamas, and the thought of a Palestinian state (with security services of its own) might be easier to a) police itself and b) target in the event they do act in a hostile manner.It would change Israel's ability to defend itself as it would have to break international law to meddle in and destabilize its enemy and would basically have to declare war whenever a rocket was launched and targeted at her.
I would guess that any two-state solution would include the Palestinians recognizing Israels right to exist, and have agreed upon borders, otherwise Israel wouldn't sign. Iran, Iraq, Syria, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Yemen and Lebanon don't recognize Israel as a state, and yet Israel still exists. I don't think the Palestinians are going to change that (state or not). In fact, having a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict could push other nations to recognize (or at least warm up to the idea of recognizing) Israel, as well as relieve a lot of the hate for Washington in the region.And more importantly a sovereign Palestinian state would be one step closer to the annihilation of the state of Israel.
As far as I can see the status quo and a continuos pressure on Palestinians until there is no longer a Palestinian identity to along with no Palestine as a place is the only course that guarantees Israel's survival. Every other solution has a too uncertain an outcome if you have everything to lose...
Lol yeah they sure are struggling to keep it out of the equation though, and I'm betting outside of the major cities its Sharia all the way ....Turkey says hi.
Except that the Muslims out number the Jews by a margin and I don't know if your familiar with Sharia law, but to put it mildly, you have to be Muslim to even contemplate living under those conditions and wherever Islam is the prevailing religion, sharia law is the rule.