There will be a strike

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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:40 am

Tiger wrote:Pers said:
working for the government


hmm Government worker in BC is an oxymoron .. Nobody really works !!

Per works for a slightly more efficient government
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Tciso » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:16 pm

dbr wrote:
Strangelove wrote:Let's face it: Generally the rich (owners and players) are getting richer and the poor (average fans) are getting poorer.

One would think your average lefty would want this lockout to go on forever. :drink:


Ha ha ha. Hey Doc what are your thoughts on sport having supplanted religion as the opiate of the masses? :look:


That is why they need to legalize marijuana. Make it the opiate for the masses. Oh, and free playstation too.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Blob Mckenzie » Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:22 pm

ukcanuck wrote:
Tiger wrote:Pers said:
working for the government


hmm Government worker in BC is an oxymoron .. Nobody really works !!

Per works for a slightly more efficient government


I guess .....as bad as the govt here is I would be pissed paying 60 % income tax rates.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Strangelove » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:22 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:I guess .....as bad as the govt here is I would be pissed paying 60 % income tax rates.


This is because they must pay a preponderance of lazy shiftless pencil-necked pencil-pushing bureaucrats. :whistle:
Last edited by Strangelove on Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Tiger » Wed Oct 31, 2012 5:24 pm

ukcanuck said:
Per works for a slightly more efficient government


another oxymoron..." efficient government "
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby ukcanuck » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:31 pm

Tiger wrote:ukcanuck said:
Per works for a slightly more efficient government


another oxymoron..." efficient government "

I don't know if you noticed, but they have a pretty good hockey team and soccer team over there, they have medical and dental and social programs to die for, they have a national automotive industry and they build their own fighter jets amongst other things im sure Per would be happy to point out, so i dont know if the oxymoron holds in the land of Swedish meatballs.

(ya ya I know the swedish government didnt do that stuff, but they didnt fuck it up neither)
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Mondi » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:20 pm

I trust corporations, they have always been fantastic stewards of public health and safety, the financial system, the housing market, the automotive sector and more. In fact the United States is a model society, if only there were less government intervention and even lowers taxes...say like Chile!
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Lancer » Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:38 am

Mondi wrote:I trust corporations, they have always been fantastic stewards of public health and safety, the financial system, the housing market, the automotive sector and more. In fact the United States is a model society, if only there were less government intervention and even lowers taxes...say like Chile!


Love the tongue in cheek.

Say what you will about governments and bureaucrats (who should be more accountable than they currently are), but there's one endearing trait about government that you can never say about corporations: they're accountable to the people they serve. Corporations are only accountable to their share-holders, and even then only significant ones.

People slag bureaucrats and I get that. Many bureacrats may be inefficient, and some may be a little dim and diffident. Personally I think there should be more insecurity regarding their employment, even though they get laid off like everybody else. That said, I've come across some good ones and more than a few who are motivated by serving the public rather than themselves. I'd take them over the nakedly amoral capitalists and mercantile classes. For every Warren Buffett there are 10 Gordon Geckos.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Mondi » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:54 am

You mean 10 Kevin O'Learys.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Tiger » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:42 pm

Lancer wrote:
Mondi wrote:I trust corporations, they have always been fantastic stewards of public health and safety, the financial system, the housing market, the automotive sector and more. In fact the United States is a model society, if only there were less government intervention and even lowers taxes...say like Chile!


Love the tongue in cheek.

Say what you will about governments and bureaucrats (who should be more accountable than they currently are), but there's one endearing trait about government that you can never say about corporations: they're accountable to the people they serve. Corporations are only accountable to their share-holders, and even then only significant ones.

People slag bureaucrats and I get that. Many bureacrats may be inefficient, and some may be a little dim and diffident. Personally I think there should be more insecurity regarding their employment, even though they get laid off like everybody else. That said, I've come across some good ones and more than a few who are motivated by serving the public rather than themselves. I'd take them over the nakedly amoral capitalists and mercantile classes. For every Warren Buffett there are 10 Gordon Geckos.


All companies ( except government controlled monopolies ) are subject to competition therefore have to be more efficient in providing goods and services than monopolistic government agencies.. One of the problems of most union contracts is the "seniority clause" or in the case of universities "tenure" that make it almost impossible to promote the best employees and get rid of the deadwood.. Thank god the NHL doesn't have that one -- Gordie Howe would still be playing !! Add that to the fact of self policing ( such as Doctors etc. ) and we have government paid for bureaucrats that do little to increase the nations wealth and a lot to do with high taxation
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby dbr » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:28 pm

Tiger wrote:All companies ( except government controlled monopolies ) are subject to competition therefore have to be more efficient in providing goods and services than monopolistic government agencies..


That's a shortsighted way of looking at efficiency.

If there are enough companies out there to fill 150% of a population's need for something, no matter how efficient they are it's probably going to be a bigger waste of resources than a marginally less efficient government agency providing just 100% of it.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Per » Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:33 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
ukcanuck wrote:Per works for a slightly more efficient government


I guess .....as bad as the govt here is I would be pissed paying 60 % income tax rates.


Well... On incomes below SEK 372,000 (roughly CAD 55,000) you only pay municipal tax, which varies from 29 to 36%, depending on where you live. The lowest rates are mostly found in the South and in the Stockholm area, while the highest rates are typically in the sparsely populated "forest counties". Where I live it's 32%, so pretty average.

So, on incomes above 372,000 there is a national 20% tax, and on incomes above 533,000 (roughly CAD 80,000) there is an additional 5%. Thus, sure, you can have a 60% tax rate, but only if you earn more than CAD 80,000 a year and live in the outback. Plus those 60% would only apply to the amount exceding the aforementioned CAD 80,000, so it's not the effective tax rate, merely the marginal tax rate on the part of your income exceding 80,000.

OK, here's an example. Say you live in a municipality that charges 36% in municipal taxes and your yearly earnings are CAD 100,000. You then pay municipal tax on the full 100,000, ie 36,000. On the earnings between 55,000 and 80,000 you pay an additional 20%, ie 5,000, and on the earnings between 80,000 and 100,000 you pay 25%, ie another 5,000. Thus in total you pay 46,000 and end up with a 46% effective tax rate. Now sure, if you instead earn a sweet CAD 1,000,000 million you'd end up paying 595,000, so on incomes exceding CAD 1,000,000 a 60% tax rate may actually occur, but only if you live in one of those rural munipialities that are at the top of the tax league.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Lancer » Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:56 pm

Tiger wrote:One of the problems of most union contracts is the "seniority clause" or in the case of universities "tenure" that make it almost impossible to promote the best employees and get rid of the deadwood..


Agree with you here. IMHO, unions should be about protecting workers from management's abuses, not sheltering the slack and the idle just because they have the time in. Unmotivated oldtimers who mail it in exist in workforces, and I'm all for debriding the dead flesh out of a shop floor.

Tiger wrote:and we have government paid for bureaucrats that do little to increase the nations wealth and a lot to do with high taxation


Sorry Tiger, but you're not close to right. You have diplomats abroad who beat the drums to secure trade deals for Canadian companies. You have food inspection agency chaps trying to ease things with customs guys in other countries so our meat and other agro exporters have a more efficient time selling their stuff outside of Canada. Transport Canada employs air traffic controllers who make sure the planes take off and arrrive safely and on time. People curse the public works guys who sit around in the shop when the weather's fine, but get a couple snowflakes dropping and how would commercial and residential traffic move without those union slobs behind the wheel? You think those folks don't add to the nation's wealth? Want to see what privatizing those services would create for the nation's wealth? I don't

What about health care - the sacred cow of the nation? Want to see the alternative? Look south and tell me how good privatized health care looks. Our health system doesn't come cheap and it's far from perfect, but it beats the alternative so I'll swallow deep when I look at my income tax deductions and carry on.

You bet there is waste in government at all levels. Bureacrats should be held more accountable and more easily fired when their ineptitude and avarice cost taxpayers needlessly. But to imply they're useless holes into which your hard-earned tax dollars get swallowed for no apparent use, dude just gotta say you're wrong.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Mondi » Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:53 pm

In fact, an argument about waste could be made much more forcefully about CEO compensation and pointless advertising and it directly drives up prices.

Or the entire financial sector which makes money off a version of gambling and charging interest...one might say they add absolutely nothing tangible to the economy. One might say, I wouldn't of course.
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Re: There will be a strike

Postby Tiger » Thu Nov 01, 2012 7:02 pm

Lancer said:
Sorry Tiger, but you're not close to right. You have diplomats abroad who beat the drums to secure trade deals for Canadian companies. You have food inspection agency chaps trying to ease things with customs guys in other countries so our meat and other agro exporters have a more efficient time selling their stuff outside of Canada. Transport Canada employs air traffic controllers who make sure the planes take off and arrrive safely and on time. People curse the public works guys who sit around in the shop when the weather's fine, but get a couple snowflakes dropping and how would commercial and residential traffic move without those union slobs behind the wheel? You think those folks don't add to the nation's wealth? Want to see what privatizing those services would create for the nation's wealth? I don't

What about health care - the sacred cow of the nation? Want to see the alternative? Look south and tell me how good privatized health care looks. Our health system doesn't come cheap and it's far from perfect, but it beats the alternative so I'll swallow deep when I look at my income tax deductions and carry on.


ok.. starting with health care.. it Sucks.. in the year 2000 Canada was ranked as #30.. behind most of the developed world and just slightly better than the USA at #37.. Our cost per patient was #2.. just behind the USA again.. A waiting list is not medical care !! We do not offer any alternatives to the public "medical insurance ".. The insurance actually is to pay doctors , nurses plus bureaucrats, Sure Sweden is better ,, but so is Italy, France and many other countries that have private or mixed private and public hospitals.. The old plan put together by the SoCreds was far superior to our present one.. No waiting periods, new hospitals being built , no shortage of medical staff or equipment.. Hospitals cost $1 a day the rest was paid by the provincial sales tax.. Most of us had medical insurance but for the poor the BC government paid for MSI ( private medical insuance .. NO WAITING and a choice of treatment. :)
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